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Los Angeles Sheriff closes gun stores

Rich2018 said:
Yes, do you think that's significant ?


"Straw purchases are the most common channel for gun trafficking, according the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; a 2000 report found that they were responsible for nearly half of all firearms in trafficking investigations..."


San Jose's Gun Control Bill Would Target 'Straw Buyers" - CityLab


That on'e a bit more recent.


What figures were you able to find ?
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The same figures I’d already posted from a 2016 DOJ report. You know, 16 years more recent than your best offering.
 
United States

Gun stores

Essential







Did anyone expect anything different? It's who we are.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
The proof is in the report I cited. Sorry, but facts is facts.
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You don't sound very sorry


Do you mean somebody said in the same way as when Trump says “someone said”, or that you have actual proof?
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I posted the actual proof of links stating that straw man purchases are the #1 sourse of guns for criminals


I'm not sure about where criminals get guns, and I'm skeptical of surveys on them (like a phone survey on how many sexual partners you've had, a British survey claimed men multiply by 10, whereas women usually divide by 10)


Which is why I sated that it is claimed that it is so, not necessarily is so.


Gifford's Law Center still states that straw man sales are the #1 source of illegal guns:


Trafficking & Straw Purchasing | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence
 
Rich2018 said:
You don't sound very sorry

I posted the actual proof of links stating that straw man purchases are the #1 sourse of guns for criminals

I'm not sure about where criminals get guns, and I'm skeptical of surveys on them (like a phone survey on how many sexual partners you've had, a British survey claimed men multiply by 10, whereas women usually divide by 10)

Which is why I sated that it is claimed that it is so, not necessarily is so.

Gifford's Law Center still states that straw man sales are the #1 source of illegal guns:

Trafficking & Straw Purchasing | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence
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I am sorry. Sorry that you’re having such a hard time coming to grips with the fact that the data you’re providing is outdated.

Did you even read your own reference? In the article, it explicitly states “Although the majority of trafficking investigations involve straw purchases, corrupt retail gun dealers account for a higher volume of guns diverted into the illegal market than any other single trafficking channel. And the study used as the reference for that assertion was published in 2000.

Next time, before you post, pay closer attention to the links (little red numbers in this case) provided to support the assertion/statistic.

You’re welcome.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
I am sorry...
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You will be

There, that's my two most humorous comebacks to a claim of being sorry


Sorry that you’re having such a hard time coming to grips with the fact that the data you’re providing is outdated...
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So what if it is ?

Why would I have a harder time than you in coming to grips with the data ?

Did you even read your own reference? In the article, it explicitly states “Although the majority of trafficking investigations involve straw purchases, corrupt retail gun dealers account for a higher volume of guns diverted into the illegal market than any other single trafficking channel....
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So what ?


Next time, before you post, pay closer attention to the links..
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Why ?


Does not the link specifically state:

"Straw purchasing—in which a purchaser is actually buying a gun on behalf of someone else—is the most common channel identified in trafficking investigations" ???


Guess you didn't read that bit.

Either way, I remain skeptical of data drawn from a poll of convicts.



You're also welcome.
 
swing_voter said:
Do you think gun stores are essential?

Personally, I don't see a problem with them closing for a few weeks if they're attracting big crowds of people.

Sheriffs have a lot of weird powers that are grandfathered in from the old days, drafting people for posses being one.
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Seems the LA Sheriff Department has reversed course....so, gun shops will not close.

LA County Sheriff Reverses Decision on Closing Gun Shops – NBC Los Angeles

LA sheriff reverses course, lets gun stores stay open

L.A. County sheriff reverses decision on gun shop closures [Video]
 
Rich2018 said:
Does not the link specifically state:

"Straw purchasing—in which a purchaser is actually buying a gun on behalf of someone else—is the most common channel identified in trafficking investigations" ???
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“Most common channel identified in trafficking investigations”. Not at all the same as “corrupt retail gun dealers account for a higher volume of guns diverted into the illegal market than any other single trafficking channel.”

Your reference speaks to most common investigations.

Mine refers to the most common way firearms get into the hands of criminals.

Can you tell the difference between these two statements?

Oh, and let’s not forget, your entire reference was published 20 years ago.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
“Most common channel identified in trafficking investigations”. Not at all the same as “corrupt retail gun dealers account for a higher volume of guns diverted into the illegal market than any other single trafficking channel.”

So that would mean that corrupt gun dealers sales to criminals is now the #1 source of guns for criminals, yes ?
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Rich2018 said:
Did you not agree that straw man purchases were the #1 source of illegal guns 20 years ago ?
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Did I? Where did I say that?

And more importantly, what would it matter?
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Did I? Where did I say that?

And more importantly, what would it matter?
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Post #21




So if straw man purchases were the #1 source of guns for criminals 20 years ago, you claimed that it has been surpassed by corrupt firearms dealers in recent times.

Post #17

Among prisoners serving time for a crime during which they possessed a gun, about half got their weapons either on the underground market (43 percent) or through theft (6 percent)...
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DOJ Report on Where Criminals Get Their Guns | National Review




Then in post #38 you said (of corrupt gun dealers being the #1 source of guns for criminals):

Not now. 20 years ago.
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So which is it, are corrupt dealers the #1 source of illegal guns for criminals 20 years ago or 2016 ?
 
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Rich2018 said:
Post #21
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RaleBulgarian said:
Even if true, do you realize your reference is more than 20 years old?
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Apparently, I didn’t.

Rich2018 said:
So if straw man purchases were the #1 source of guns for criminals 20 years ago,
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Your assertion.

Rich2018 said:
you claimed that it has been surpassed by corrupt firearms dealers in recent times.
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I didn’t claim. I provided a DOJ survey from 2016.

Rich2018 said:
Then in post #38 you said (of corrupt gun dealers being the #1 source of guns for criminals)
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Yep, I did. Mistakenly, as you should have understood, based on the totality of my posts on this subject.

Rich2018 said:
So which is it, are corrupt dealers the #1 source of illegal guns for criminals 20 years ago or 2016 ?
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Look again and see for yourself.
5DABE17D-44A6-4ABE-A9BE-2890875CDDB9.jpg
 
RaleBulgarian said:
I didn’t....
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You doubt the figures ?

What was your phrase from post #31 ?

Sorry, but facts is facts.
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Strange how figures you post are "facts" which have some kind of gospel truth, but data from other people's links you feel free to disagree with
Strange that



Your assertion.
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Did you notice the word "if" ?

Again you seem to have a double standard when it comes to posting your data versus data posted by anyone else


Sorry, but facts is facts.
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To quote yourself



I didn’t claim. I provided a DOJ survey from 2016.
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Then why post it ?
And then follow us by saying:

Sorry, but facts is facts.
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Seemingly you are back tracking that you stated a fact ?
Then why the apology ?




Yep, I did. Mistakenly, as you should have understood, based on the totality of my posts on this subject.
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So now you backtrack further and apportion blame to others for not correcting YOUR mistakes ?
Moving the goal posts huh ?




Look again and see for yourself.
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So state your case:

Was it the case that straw man purchases were the #1 source of criminals' guns (perhaps 20 years ago) or not ?


What is the number #1 source now ?
Is it via corrupt gun dealers or not ?
 
Rich2018 said:
You doubt the figures ?

What was your phrase from post #31 ?



Strange how figures you post are "facts" which have some kind of gospel truth, but data from other people's links you feel free to disagree with
Strange that





Did you notice the word "if" ?

Again you seem to have a double standard when it comes to posting your data versus data posted by anyone else




To quote yourself






Then why post it ?
And then follow us by saying:



Seemingly you are back tracking that you stated a fact ?
Then why the apology ?






So now you backtrack further and apportion blame to others for not correcting YOUR mistakes ?
Moving the goal posts huh ?






So state your case:

Was it the case that straw man purchases were the #1 source of criminals' guns (perhaps 20 years ago) or not ?


What is the number #1 source now ?
Is it via corrupt gun dealers or not ?
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Why do you continue arguing that your 20 year old reference is more accurate than mine from 2016?

Obviously you enjoy bantering, but geez, this has gone on long enough and then some.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Why do you continue arguing that your 20 year old reference is more accurate than mine from 2016?
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Reading comprehension


Merely that they were, at the time, "facts"

And as you said in post #31:

Sorry, but facts is facts.
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So the hypothesis is that 20 years ago, "straw man" purchases were the #1 source of guns for criminals




BUT by 2016 (at least if not before) this had been superseded by supplies from corrupt gun dealers according to the 2016 stats that YOU posted

Which makes it hard to understand why after posting them, you responded to the suggestion that corrupt gun dealers were now the #1 source with:

Not now. 20 years ago.
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But then you backtrack and suggest them blame with your incorrect comment lies not with the poster, but somehow with the reader. Which I find totally bizarre.





Obviously you enjoy bantering, but geez, this has gone on long enough and then some.
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I accept your surrender, forced though it was.
 
Rich2018 said:
Reading comprehension


Merely that they were, at the time, "facts"

And as you said in post #31:




So the hypothesis is the 20 years ago, "straw man" purchases were the #1 source of guns for criminals




BUT by 2016 (at least if not before) this had been superseded by supplies from corrupt gun dealers according to the 2016 stats that YOU posts

Which makes it hard to understand why after posting them, you responded to the suggestion that corrupt gun dealers were now the #1 source with:



But then you backtrack and suggest them blame with your incorrect comment lies not with the poster, but somehow with the reader. Which I find totally bizarre.








I accept your surrender, forced though it was.
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You’re a real mess, Rich, but I’m starting to like you a little. ;)
 
Rich2018 said:
So do you trust any source as true, your "facts is facts" statement seem to suggest you do...
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Of course I do, and I proved that by providing factual (and more current) information than you did.
 
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