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Thread: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

  1. #221
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    He's a trained and experienced lawyer - and your legal qualifications are ?


    So you're obviously not a lawyer or have any legal training


    Seems you can't read either so I'll bold the important bits:


    "...the commonwealth shall have the burden of proving to the court the existence of probable cause to institute the action, and any such claimant shall then have the burden of proving that the property is not forfeitable pursuant to subparagraph (3), (5), or (7) of said subsection (a). The owner of said conveyance or real property, or other person claiming thereunder shall have the burden of proof as to all exceptions set forth in subsections (c) and (i). “


    So, an inanimate object is regarded as "guilty" until proven "innocent", the owner of such has the burden of proof that it should NOT be forfeited
    that used to be the standard federally. I know, I tried more civil forfeiture cases than anyone in the 6th circuit at one point. And then for several years, we didn't have any-criminal forfeiture was becoming more popular after the standards changed. The last case I tried for the DOJ was a civil forfeiture case and the Government had both the burden of showing probable cause (to seize the property by warrant) and then the burden of proof at trial (preponderance of the evidence-civil standards)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only "sport" that most gun owners participate in is suicide or murder.

  2. #222
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    I can read and understand law, and have had to study the 4th amendment extensively.



    I don't need to be when I can read the actual law.



    You bolded the wrong part:


    "...the commonwealth shall have the burden of proving to the court the existence of probable cause to institute the action,
    Which means the police had t have PROBABLE CAUSE to seize the property. Probable cause is a low standard. But in MA that's enough to seize property (In my state, the standard is "preponderance of evidence," which is only slightly higher.


    and any such claimant shall then have the burden of proving that the property is not forfeitable pursuant to subparagraph (3), (5), or (7) of said subsection (a). The owner of said conveyance or real property, or other person claiming thereunder shall have the burden of proof as to all exceptions set forth in subsections (c) and (i). “

    AFTER probable cause has been shown, THEN the burden shifts to the owner to show that the seizure was in error.

    But this is a thread about gun control. Is it your claim that all guns should be treated in the same way, and that this is just?
    He presumes guns are "guilty" and that establishes probable cause. Complete failure legally
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only "sport" that most gun owners participate in is suicide or murder.

  3. #223
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that used to be the standard federally. I know, I tried more civil forfeiture cases than anyone in the 6th circuit at one point. And then for several years, we didn't have any-criminal forfeiture was becoming more popular after the standards changed. The last case I tried for the DOJ was a civil forfeiture case and the Government had both the burden of showing probable cause (to seize the property by warrant) and then the burden of proof at trial (preponderance of the evidence-civil standards)
    OK, prove him wrong, prove that a seized object must be returned to the person possessing it, unless the state can prove they obtained it illegally, or didn't pay tax etc.

    I happen to know for a fact that if you walk through US customs with a Rolex, you can't keep it if you have no proof you bought it i the USA. The customs will seize it if they suspect you bought it tax free overseas and YOU have to prove you bought it previously in the USA and paid tax in doing so.

    How do you explain this:


    https://www.aclu-nm.org/sites/defaul...orch-Final.pdf

  4. #224
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    The king or queen of England can exert considerable influence

    On foreign matters today Queen Elizabeth II's experience is of great value


    You need to actually study politics and learn the difference between power and influence




    Actually if anything the USA's diverse nature is more divisive than anything, race riots, prejudice, racial strife and discrimination
    Why was there a need for the Civil Rights Movement ?

    Martin Luther King ?

    Japanese Americans interned in WWII

    Rodney King

    OJ Simpson trial verdict

    Ever see how people assemble in prison ?

    Race is a HUGELY divisive issue in the USA




    Utter rubbish and shows how your knowledge of political history is ignorant

    I'd have you know that every British colony had a revolt at some time (with the exception of Nigeria)

    And the Revolutionary War was fought for $$$ - specifically for the middle class to make more money
    It was NOT fought for "freedom" as only about 6% of Americans actually got suffrage




    They didn't need their emperor at all
    Germany gave up its monarchy after WWI
    The retension of the emperor was a sticking point in surrender negotiations, the US couldn't persude the Japese to have a president



    Specifically an honorary president in a parliamentary political system...not a US style president....or the leader of another "European nation" - Spain

    Third world dictatorships adopted a US style presidential form of government

    The leader of Spain, General Franco - adopted a form of government combining the head of state with the head of government - like the USA




    LOL, so censorship is now anti-free speech

    This from the country that boasted the Hollywood blacklist and the House Committee on "Un-American" Affairs

    Let's no forget:

    Comics Code Authority - Wikipedia


    Censorship of broadcasting in the United States - Wikipedia


    The Breakdown of Censorship in American Cinema - Inquiries Journal


    "The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulates "indecent" free-to-air broadcasting (both television and radio). Satellite, cable television, and Internet outlets are not subject to content-based FCC regulation. It can issue fines if, for example, the broadcaster employs certain profane words."

    Censorship in the United States - Wikipedia


    "On Wednesday, Sept. 22, 2004, the Federal Communications Commission fined CBS a record $550,000 for Jackson's “wardrobe malfunction,” which exposed the singer's breast during this year's Super Bowl halftime show. ... It received 540,000 about Janet Jackson's breast.”"


    Janet Jackson’s ‘wardrobe malfunction’ occurred the last time the Super Bowl was in Houston — The Undefeated


    So don't go there...I've lived in the UK and the USA and the USA is way more heavily censored.






    You clearly never have beyond high school social studies.
    Queen Elizabeth has no influence today

    The diversity factor is rather occupations than race

    Farmers, white-collar,blue-collar etc, that is what makes america diverse

    japan needed it's emperor because of their honor code, that is why they didnt surrender

    Franco was the permanent head of state not the U.S presidential system-bad comparison.

    Censoring bad words isn't censorship, America is the freest country in the world.

    The USA is not censored at all-the Uk has VERY strict laws, they persecute people for "hate crimes"

    Your education is not showing

  5. #225
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    All the sponsors currently are Democrats. The chance of this getting passed is almost zero, but it shows what many Democrats want to impose on this Country

    Text - H.R.5717 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Gun Violence Prevention and Community Safety Act of 2020 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

    the biggest joke is listing hundreds of firearms-many of which are obsolete and no longer relevant as NOT banned.
    Who gives a ****?
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    We need McCarthy back.

  6. #226
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by lurchadams View Post
    Who gives a ****?
    obviously you do since you entered this thread. And most gun owners do because they don't like the idea of scummy politicians trying to destroy their rights
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only "sport" that most gun owners participate in is suicide or murder.

  7. #227
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    OK, prove him wrong, prove that a seized object must be returned to the person possessing it, unless the state can prove they obtained it illegally, or didn't pay tax etc.

    I happen to know for a fact that if you walk through US customs with a Rolex, you can't keep it if you have no proof you bought it i the USA. The customs will seize it if they suspect you bought it tax free overseas and YOU have to prove you bought it previously in the USA and paid tax in doing so.

    How do you explain this:


    https://www.aclu-nm.org/sites/defaul...orch-Final.pdf
    You seem to be confusing a state policy with federal policy. I never held a law license in New Mexico nor have I ever appeared in any state courts in that jurisdiction. My wife traveled to England 5 times with me, and to Bolivia once, with her Rolex watch and was never questioned. We had to have permits for our shotguns from both countries and that was sufficient for customs not to question where the shotguns came from (my wife's Merkel was made in Germany)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only "sport" that most gun owners participate in is suicide or murder.

  8. #228
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    obviously you do since you entered this thread. And most gun owners do because they don't like the idea of scummy politicians trying to destroy their rights
    I saw an old, fat guy brandishing a sidearm in a Subway recently. I thought to myself, "if a sandwich-related emergency comes up that guy is ready!".

    What a loser!
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    We need McCarthy back.

  9. #229
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by lurchadams View Post
    I saw an old, fat guy brandishing a sidearm in a Subway recently. I thought to myself, "if a sandwich-related emergency comes up that guy is ready!".

    What a loser!
    You might have thought differently is someone tried to rob you there.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only "sport" that most gun owners participate in is suicide or murder.

  10. #230
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You might have thought differently is someone tried to rob you there.
    Yeah, if a true life-threatening emergency ever came up in a sandwich shop I'm sure that guy would have either **** himself and fainted, or shot himself or another innocent person in a panic.
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    We need McCarthy back.

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