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Thread: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

  1. #211
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by bomberfox View Post
    Its another TD fail thread. Nice thread kill <3
    you apparently didn't read past the erroneous information from another poster

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    That is not the bill Turtledude posted. Yours if from 2018, his is from 2020. Yours is from the 115th congress,his from the 116th congress. Different cosponsors.

    This is from Turtledude's post.18 cosponsors no RINOs.
    Cosponsors - H.R.5717 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Gun Violence Prevention and Community Safety Act of 2020 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
    \All Info - H.R.5717 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Jake Laird Act of 2018 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

    This is from yours.15 cosponsors with a lot of RINOs
    All Info - H.R.5717 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Jake Laird Act of 2018 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only "sport" that most gun owners participate in is suicide or murder.

  2. #212
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    are there bans on assault bones of an ass? or worse yet, sound frequency weapons as used to topple Jericho?
    Only if the jaw bone has a pistol grip.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  3. #213
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    I gave a source, of lawyers, who have a strong interest and have fought strongly against civil forfeiture...
    They might do, as is the YouTube presenter I listed

    But what they are "fighting" is the current law


    Probable cause is the minimum legal standard.

    For a person yes

    But not for an inanimate object.

    As shown in my two examples, the onus is on you to prove "innocence"

    The cop merely needs to have "suspicion"


    The lawyer I listed gave an example of how this might play out

    Do you say he is wrong ?

    In which case, where did you get your law degree again ?

  4. #214
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Only if the jaw bone has a pistol grip.
    I heard it had more than 10 teeth in it. sounds like a high capacity feeding device!
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only "sport" that most gun owners participate in is suicide or murder.

  5. #215
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by TypicalRussian View Post
    He was very active in the war
    The king or queen of England can exert considerable influence

    On foreign matters today Queen Elizabeth II's experience is of great value


    You need to actually study politics and learn the difference between power and influence


    USA is diverse and thats why it works, every European nation has the same size to its region
    Actually if anything the USA's diverse nature is more divisive than anything, race riots, prejudice, racial strife and discrimination
    Why was there a need for the Civil Rights Movement ?

    Martin Luther King ?

    Japanese Americans interned in WWII

    Rodney King

    OJ Simpson trial verdict

    Ever see how people assemble in prison ?

    Race is a HUGELY divisive issue in the USA


    America fought for independence to be away from the British system not Canada or Australia....
    Utter rubbish and shows how your knowledge of political history is ignorant

    I'd have you know that every British colony had a revolt at some time (with the exception of Nigeria)

    And the Revolutionary War was fought for $$$ - specifically for the middle class to make more money
    It was NOT fought for "freedom" as only about 6% of Americans actually got suffrage


    The Japanese needed their emperor, its why they didnt surrender for so long, America HAD to let them keep their emperor otherwise Japan would not surrender but would fall to the Soviets after an extra 10-20 million people die.
    They didn't need their emperor at all
    Germany gave up its monarchy after WWI
    The retension of the emperor was a sticking point in surrender negotiations, the US couldn't persude the Japese to have a president

    Germany picked a President to show a head of state, like other European nations
    Specifically an honorary president in a parliamentary political system...not a US style president....or the leader of another "European nation" - Spain

    Third world dictatorships adopted a US style presidential form of government

    The leader of Spain, General Franco - adopted a form of government combining the head of state with the head of government - like the USA


    There are plenty of examples of the British being against free-speech
    LOL, so censorship is now anti-free speech

    This from the country that boasted the Hollywood blacklist and the House Committee on "Un-American" Affairs

    Let's no forget:

    Comics Code Authority - Wikipedia


    Censorship of broadcasting in the United States - Wikipedia


    The Breakdown of Censorship in American Cinema - Inquiries Journal


    "The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulates "indecent" free-to-air broadcasting (both television and radio). Satellite, cable television, and Internet outlets are not subject to content-based FCC regulation. It can issue fines if, for example, the broadcaster employs certain profane words."

    Censorship in the United States - Wikipedia


    "On Wednesday, Sept. 22, 2004, the Federal Communications Commission fined CBS a record $550,000 for Jackson's “wardrobe malfunction,” which exposed the singer's breast during this year's Super Bowl halftime show. ... It received 540,000 about Janet Jackson's breast.”"


    Janet Jackson’s ‘wardrobe malfunction’ occurred the last time the Super Bowl was in Houston — The Undefeated


    So don't go there...I've lived in the UK and the USA and the USA is way more heavily censored.




    Well thats good for you if you studied those
    You clearly never have beyond high school social studies.

  6. #216
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    They might do, as is the YouTube presenter I listed

    But what they are "fighting" is the current law





    For a person yes

    But not for an inanimate object.

    As shown in my two examples, the onus is on you to prove "innocence"

    The cop merely needs to have "suspicion"


    The lawyer I listed gave an example of how this might play out

    Do you say he is wrong ?

    In which case, where did you get your law degree again ?
    He is wrong. One example, and I can show 50 more, but Massachusetts has about the weakest laws protecting citizen’s rights in civil forfeiture: General Law - Part I, Title XV, Chapter 94C, Section 47
    Paragraph (d) the commonwealth shall have the burden of proving to the court the existence of probable cause to institute the action, and any such claimant shall then have the burden of proving that the property is not forfeitable pursuant to subparagraph (3), (5), or (7) of said subsection (a). The owner of said conveyance or real property, or other person claiming thereunder shall have the burden of proof as to all exceptions set forth in subsections (c) and (i). “
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  7. #217
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    They might do, as is the YouTube presenter I listed

    But what they are "fighting" is the current law





    For a person yes

    But not for an inanimate object.

    As shown in my two examples, the onus is on you to prove "innocence"

    The cop merely needs to have "suspicion"


    The lawyer I listed gave an example of how this might play out

    Do you say he is wrong ?

    In which case, where did you get your law degree again ?
    He is wrong. One example, and I can show 50 more, but Massachusetts has about the weakest laws protecting citizen’s rights in civil forfeiture: General Law - Part I, Title XV, Chapter 94C, Section 47
    Paragraph (d) the commonwealth shall have the burden of proving to the court the existence of probable cause to institute the action, and any such claimant shall then have the burden of proving that the property is not forfeitable pursuant to subparagraph (3), (5), or (7) of said subsection (a). The owner of said conveyance or real property, or other person claiming thereunder shall have the burden of proof as to all exceptions set forth in subsections (c) and (i). “
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  8. #218
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    He is wrong. One example, and I can show 50 more, but Massachusetts has about the weakest laws protecting citizen’s rights in civil forfeiture: General Law - Part I, Title XV, Chapter 94C, Section 47
    Paragraph (d) the commonwealth shall have the burden of proving to the court the existence of probable cause to institute the action, and any such claimant shall then have the burden of proving that the property is not forfeitable pursuant to subparagraph (3), (5), or (7) of said subsection (a). The owner of said conveyance or real property, or other person claiming thereunder shall have the burden of proof as to all exceptions set forth in subsections (c) and (i). “


    He's a trained and experienced lawyer - and your legal qualifications are ?


    So you're obviously not a lawyer or have any legal training


    Seems you can't read either so I'll bold the important bits:


    "...the commonwealth shall have the burden of proving to the court the existence of probable cause to institute the action, and any such claimant shall then have the burden of proving that the property is not forfeitable pursuant to subparagraph (3), (5), or (7) of said subsection (a). The owner of said conveyance or real property, or other person claiming thereunder shall have the burden of proof as to all exceptions set forth in subsections (c) and (i). “


    So, an inanimate object is regarded as "guilty" until proven "innocent", the owner of such has the burden of proof that it should NOT be forfeited

  9. #219
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    He is wrong. One example, and I can show 50 more, but Massachusetts has about the weakest laws protecting citizen’s rights in civil forfeiture: General Law - Part I, Title XV, Chapter 94C, Section 47
    Paragraph (d) the commonwealth shall have the burden of proving to the court the existence of probable cause to institute the action, and any such claimant shall then have the burden of proving that the property is not forfeitable pursuant to subparagraph (3), (5), or (7) of said subsection (a). The owner of said conveyance or real property, or other person claiming thereunder shall have the burden of proof as to all exceptions set forth in subsections (c) and (i). “
    "In Massachusetts, local police need only probable cause in order to forfeit a property, the burden falls on the owner to demonstrate their innocence or ignorance of a crime in order to reclaim their property, and police can keep up to 100 percent of the proceeds.Jul 26, 2017..."


    Why A Report Gave Mass. An '''F''' Grade For Its Civil Asset Forfeiture Laws | Radio Boston


    So a police officer's suspicion is enough in some cases. But it's true that a policeman can't just drag you out of your car and claim he thinks you might have stolen it, he needs something more. But if he has it, YOU have to prove "innocence"

    It's true that a police officer can also arrest you on suspicion, but you can't be convicted. The burden of proof lies with the state to prove your guilt
    However YOU have to prove that your property is innocent.
    Last edited by Rich2018; 03-26-20 at 09:51 PM.

  10. #220
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    Re: Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    He's a trained and experienced lawyer - and your legal qualifications are ?
    I can read and understand law, and have had to study the 4th amendment extensively.


    So you're obviously not a lawyer or have any legal training
    I don't need to be when I can read the actual law.


    Seems you can't read either so I'll bold the important bits:
    You bolded the wrong part:


    "...the commonwealth shall have the burden of proving to the court the existence of probable cause to institute the action,
    Which means the police had t have PROBABLE CAUSE to seize the property. Probable cause is a low standard. But in MA that's enough to seize property (In my state, the standard is "preponderance of evidence," which is only slightly higher.


    and any such claimant shall then have the burden of proving that the property is not forfeitable pursuant to subparagraph (3), (5), or (7) of said subsection (a). The owner of said conveyance or real property, or other person claiming thereunder shall have the burden of proof as to all exceptions set forth in subsections (c) and (i). “

    AFTER probable cause has been shown, THEN the burden shifts to the owner to show that the seizure was in error.

    But this is a thread about gun control. Is it your claim that all guns should be treated in the same way, and that this is just?
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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