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Thread: Comparing Peer Countries

  1. #171
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    Re: Comparing Peer Countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    No it's not, DebateChallenge got that right at least:

    facˇsimˇiˇle

    An exact copy, especially of written or printed material.


    A facsimile is an exact copy of something, not something else that merely resembles the original





    The UK, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Japan...



    Actually it doesn't

    It comes from English law. So whilst a commoner was judged by other similar commoners, a nobleman would be judged by other noblemen (still known today as "peers of the realm")

    But as the USA doesn't recognize titles (still referred to in Britain as "peerages") I guess that here being judged by a peer, just means a citizen - but only a citizen of the USA

    So if you're judged by 12 of your peers, they could be radically different to you with only one thing in common with you - they are citizens of the USA.





    The UK, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Japan...

    They are more like the USA than unlike

    They have more in common with the USA than a jury of your "peers"

    That is why the term "peer country" is used.
    You're not even close. NONE of those countries has the size, diversity, culture, or economic strength of the USA. You fail to provide a true comparison. Those countries are no bigger than ONE of our States. They are not diverse. They have different cultures. NO MATCH. Try again.

    In this country your "peers" is every other citizen. That has no relevance when comparing COUNTRIES. Apples and Oranges.

  2. #172
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    Re: Comparing Peer Countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    You're not even close. NONE of those countries has the size, diversity, culture, or economic strength of the USA.
    So what?

    They are not facsimiles (or exact copy - you understand that facsimile does not mean "similar now?), they're peer countries.

    Similar economic development, political development


    You fail to provide a true comparison. Those countries are no bigger than ONE of our States. They are not diverse.
    Receptively:

    So what (a peer county isn't a facsimile)
    Some of them are - Australia for example


    In this country your "peers" is every other citizen...
    So what ?
    That doesn't change the mean of the word "peer"


    So what do you think the phrase "peer countries" is in such wide use when comparing other countries to the USA ?

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    Re: Comparing Peer Countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    So what?

    They are not facsimiles (or exact copy - you understand that facsimile does not mean "similar now?), they're peer countries.

    Similar economic development, political development




    Receptively:

    So what (a peer county isn't a facsimile)
    Some of them are - Australia for example




    So what ?
    That doesn't change the mean of the word "peer"


    So what do you think the phrase "peer countries" is in such wide use when comparing other countries to the USA ?
    A country that is similar in size, diversity, culture, and economic power. Show me another country meeting that criteria. Otherwise you're comparing apples and oranges. And such a comparison would never be considered good science if it were to be done in say, medical research. For your comparison to be scientific at all, the countries have to match up on the criteria I laid out.

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    Re: Comparing Peer Countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    A country that is similar in size, diversity, culture, and economic power. Show me another country meeting that criteria. Otherwise you're comparing apples and oranges. And such a comparison would never be considered good science if it were to be done in say, medical research. For your comparison to be scientific at all, the countries have to match up on the criteria I laid out.
    So you don't think the USA has any peers countries. It is without peer.

    Let's just say you have a very private criteria for "peer" and not one shared by the community that makes national comparisons.


    Should I ever be tried for murder, I want a jury a peers following your strict rules (as well as those of the Senate for the submission of witnesses and evidence)



    There used to be a poster on here a couple of years ago who said any web page he disagreed with was wrong and he was right.
    Apart from your highly personal view, would you be able to post evidence from the more established elements of scientific research what "peer countries" mean ?

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    Re: Comparing Peer Countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    So you don't think the USA has any peers countries. It is without peer.

    Let's just say you have a very private criteria for "peer" and not one shared by the community that makes national comparisons.


    Should I ever be tried for murder, I want a jury a peers following your strict rules (as well as those of the Senate for the submission of witnesses and evidence)



    There used to be a poster on here a couple of years ago who said any web page he disagreed with was wrong and he was right.
    Apart from your highly personal view, would you be able to post evidence from the more established elements of scientific research what "peer countries" mean ?
    What we're discussing is in the sphere of Sociology. Like economics, it isn't a hard science. So people, even sociologists, are free to make whatever comparisons they like. They are free to "call" any country a "peer" of the USA. People in the hard sciences would laugh at that idea. And that's why sociology has very little value, and can't make accurate predictions. What I am pointing out is the limits of such "soft" sciences. Astrology can make just about as good a prediction as any sociologist. And economists exist to make weather forecasters look good.

    Culture, for instance; Here we have a natural disaster and people go running to the gun store. Because there will be looting, killings, rapes, robbery, as many people seek to take advantage of the social breakdown. I lived in Japan for 4 years. A natural disaster there and everybody pitches in, helping. No looting, no big upsurge in crime, just a community working together. Families take in other families they don't even know. BOTH groups are acting rationally, according to their respective cultural norms. Cultures vary from country to country. (I lived in over a dozen different countries growing up, and then in the military).

    So what I'm asking is to show me another country comparable on that criteria and then we could have a pretty good discussion.

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    Re: Comparing Peer Countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    What we're discussing is in the sphere of Sociology. Like economics, it isn't a hard science.
    No it sciences like medicine too

    17 "peer countries" of the USA:

    6 Social Factors | U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter Lives, Poorer Health | The National Academies Press


    (Chart near the bottom)



    They are free to "call" any country a "peer" of the USA.
    Many people do. Many scientists, the concept of a "peer country" is not new and it's well established

    Go head and say your opinion trumps all that


    ...and that's why sociology has very little value, and can't make accurate predictions....

    Like economics ?

    That's a social science too...politics as well
    Not sure why this is important though

    Medical doctors make predictions...they use the term "peer countries"


    What I am pointing out is the limits of such "soft" sciences. Astrology can make just about as good a prediction as any sociologist. And economists exist to make weather forecasters look good.
    Astrology isn't a science
    And a social science studies people, who aren't predictable as weather patterns


    Culture, for instance; Here we have a natural disaster and people go running to the gun store. Because there will be looting, killings, rapes, robbery, as many people seek to take advantage of the social breakdown.
    ???

    Did you not just say that social sciences can't make good predictions and yet you just tried to make one ?


    I lived in Japan for 4 years. A natural disaster there and everybody pitches in, helping. No looting, no big upsurge in crime, just a community working together.

    So the people in Japan are better when it comes to conscience
    But again, so what ?


    So what I'm asking is to show me another country comparable on that criteria and then we could have a pretty good discussion.
    The 17 listed in the graph, in the link I gave you.

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    Re: Comparing Peer Countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    No it sciences like medicine too

    17 "peer countries" of the USA:

    6 Social Factors | U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter Lives, Poorer Health | The National Academies Press


    (Chart near the bottom)





    Many people do. Many scientists, the concept of a "peer country" is not new and it's well established

    Go head and say your opinion trumps all that





    Like economics ?

    That's a social science too...politics as well
    Not sure why this is important though

    Medical doctors make predictions...they use the term "peer countries"




    Astrology isn't a science
    And a social science studies people, who aren't predictable as weather patterns




    ???

    Did you not just say that social sciences can't make good predictions and yet you just tried to make one ?





    So the people in Japan are better when it comes to conscience
    But again, so what ?




    The 17 listed in the graph, in the link I gave you.
    You missed the point again. It's not that the Japanese are better than us, it's that they have a very different CULTURE, which makes comparisons between them and the USA very difficult and unreliable.

    Sweden is a "peer" country to the USA? France... Norway...... LMAO!!!!..... You GOT to be kidding !!!

    Again, show me a country that is similar to the USA in size, diversity, culture, and economic power. That country I will gladly classify as a "peer" of the USA. So you got nothing? Come, on', man, show me a real comparable country.

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    Re: Comparing Peer Countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    You missed the point again. It's not that the Japanese are better than us, it's that they have a very different CULTURE, which makes comparisons between them and the USA very difficult and unreliable.

    Sweden is a "peer" country to the USA? France... Norway...... LMAO!!!!..... You GOT to be kidding !!!

    Again, show me a country that is similar to the USA in size, diversity, culture, and economic power. That country I will gladly classify as a "peer" of the USA. So you got nothing? Come, on', man, show me a real comparable country.
    I totally agree.

    No other country has the 2nd
    amendment.

    No other country has as much diversity.

    No other country has at its base such a history of manifest destiny and importance on self reliance and self protection.

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    Re: Comparing Peer Countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Maidenrules29 View Post
    I totally agree.

    No other country has the 2nd
    amendment.

    No other country has as much diversity.

    No other country has at its base such a history of manifest destiny and importance on self reliance and self protection.
    I see you understand cultural differences. Thank you.

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    Re: Comparing Peer Countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    You missed the point again. It's not that the Japanese are better than us, it's that they have a very different CULTURE...
    No, it's you who miss the point
    I didn't say they are or that they don't respectively


    ...which makes comparisons between them and the USA very difficult and unreliable.

    No it doesn't
    Only inconsistent data recording or unreliable data collection would do this
    You have no clue about statistics do you ?

    Have you any experience in math/statistics beyond high school ?


    Sweden is a "peer" country to the USA? France... Norway...... LMAO!!!!..... You GOT to be kidding !!!
    Yes absolutely Sweden is
    Absolutely Norway and France are too:


    "U.S. poverty rates higher, safety net weaker than in peer countries..."


    ib339-figureA.jpg


    U.S. poverty rates higher, safety net weaker than in peer countries | Economic Policy Institute


    Notice the presence of Norway, Sweden and France ?

    Now who's "kidding". What do you have as a list of "peer countries" - other than your own, highly parochial, opinion ?


    Again, show me a country that is similar to the USA in size, diversity, culture, and economic power. That country I will gladly classify as a "peer" of the USA. So you got nothing? Come, on', man, show me a real comparable country.

    See the above list.

    If you dispute the above list, give your own list of "peer" countries...or admit your criteria for one is a private matter between you and yourself.

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