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Solution For People Who Don't Like Guns

Digger said:
Yeah, I know. And the same applies to gun violence, which is my point. You should be arguing with deltoid.
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And we've already got laws that prohibit gun violence.
 
mrdeltoid said:
I'm with you, believe me. The problem is we can't legislate good behavior. What I mean is, guns aren't immune to laws, here we must even apply to get a license before you can even buy a gun. Then after that, you do the paperwork to buy a gun, wait while a background check (we are already fingerprinted for the HQL, (Handgun Qualification License), then we can finally pick up our gun. Here's the thing, if your life is threatened, or you are a female being stalked, the criminal that threatened you, can come to your house, kick the door in, and shoot you dead. No waiting period. The issue with enforcing gun laws before a criminal can use it, you run into 4th amendment issues. In NYC, "stop and frisk" cut murders from over 1000 per year, to a couple hundred.
But, there are other ways. Take school shootings for instance. Arming and training teachers on a volunteer basis has been successful. One school even has a sign proclaiming "This School has armed teachers". Criminals prefer unarmed victims. "Shall issue" laws gives one the option of carrying a concealed gun if you are law abiding. In these states, you can apply for a CCW, and if you are law abiding, they shall issue you a CCW permit. Some states, like Maine, if you are a state resident, you don't need a permit. You can carry if you want. This has never been tried here in Maryland. I would have to prove I need a CCW permit, like I carry large sums of money or something. The fact that I live in a city of roughly half a million people, that has several shootings every day, and over 300 murders a year isn't proof enough you say? Nope. Not in the people's republic of Maryland.
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Not all regulations are the same. It's not a yes/no question. Just because some regulations don't work, doesn't mean that other regulations won't. In this case it's also a circular argument, since the reason the current laws don't work is that they were weakened by the gun lobby.

States laws can't address this issue. Not with federal loopholes big enough to drive a truck load of guns through. The gun show loophole. The straw buyer loophole. Without fixes to these federal laws, states have very little power to regulate guns within their borders... as you've pointed out.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
No, I've sworn to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Since you have repeatedly sought to shred the Constitution, voiced your opinions in support of tyranny then that makes you the enemy. :)
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Is that how you see it ?

Passing an amendment to repeal the 2nd amendment is "shredding" the Constitution ?


Maybe you did read Mao's Little Red Book in your confusion ?
 
zsu2357 said:
One ------new------law------at------a------time.

Even if all the legal owners handed them over (fat chance) how do you get them from criminals? Short version is ...You don't.
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No, repeal all gun laws with one banning all guns

Pass an amendment repealing the second and banning all guns but state the national executive can make exceptions: make and model


British gun laws would offer a good template to copy IMO.


You get them from criminals as and when you arrest them.
 
mrdeltoid said:
Yes, liberal gun laws does mean less restrictive. We agree there. Economic liberal though, I would disagree. An economic liberal, originally referred to individualism, or "the individual", when it comes to making decisions, and not the government. I am an economic liberal. As it used to be. Actually, as liberal use to be used, I would consider myself a liberal. It is based on liberty, and the government being under the consent of the citizens. The configuration of our 3 co-equal branches of government has nothing to do with liberalism.
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You could argue that free trade and lack of laws = liberalism but that is a path to anarchy.

For me liberal trade laws allow anything seen as good (no tariffs or pariah countries like US trade with Cuba) whilst placing restrictions on things that are bad (monopolies, unfair trading practices, price collusion, cartels etc).


For me liberal economics also means the protection of the people and avoiding exploitation, price gouging etc. So if a major industry (like automotive manufacture or steel) is on the verge of collapse, a government can step in
But it can also step in to ensure safe working conditions, pay etc.


Liberal politics I'm sure we can agree on, it mean equal distribution of political power as far as is practical - in other words, democracy.
 
Digger said:
Not all regulations are the same. It's not a yes/no question. Just because some regulations don't work, doesn't mean that other regulations won't. In this case it's also a circular argument, since the reason the current laws don't work is that they were weakened by the gun lobby.

States laws can't address this issue. Not with federal loopholes big enough to drive a truck load of guns through. The gun show loophole. The straw buyer loophole. Without fixes to these federal laws, states have very little power to regulate guns within their borders... as you've pointed out.
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Laws do not work on products that people want. See drugs. I can walk out my front door, walk 2 blocks, and get a bag of dope, which is completely banned, federally. If you sell it you go to jail If you take it over state lines, you get federal charges. Gun's would be the same. We've danced around this issue for decades now. There are places where violent crime is very low. Why? It isn't the gun laws. Until we take a different track, we'll keep riding this merry-go-round.
 
Digger said:
I dunno. According to Mr. Deltoid, gun regulation doesn't work categorically. Take it up with him if you want to argue the point. It seems ridiculously defeatist to me.
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Let me be more specific. Laws work on the law abiding. They do NOT work on criminals. Kinda self explanatory.
 
Digger said:
It's not the guns I have a problem with. It's the possibility that their bullets end up in my children that concerns me. Do you have any glib suggestions to prevent that from happening?
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Eliminate crime?
 
Rich2018 said:
Is that how you see it ?

Passing an amendment to repeal the 2nd amendment is "shredding" the Constitution ?


Maybe you did read Mao's Little Red Book in your confusion ?
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You are free to advocate repealing the First through Tenth Amendments. Since you are on record saying “Freedom is overrated”, I know you’ll try. Go for it, but I think most Americans will disagree with the likes of you.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
You are free to advocate repealing the First through Tenth Amendments. Since you are on record saying “Freedom is overrated”, I know you’ll try. Go for it, but I think most Americans will disagree with the likes of you.
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Freedom is overrated

Every society impinges "freedom" in some way, and often in many ways...even democracies restrict some freedoms so that others can be maintained.


Now you start a straw man argument by saying I'm free to repeal amendments 1-10
When all that's proposed is repealing ONE amendment

Gun owners will hysterically wail about people threatening their "rights" when in actual fact it is just ONE right.


And it removes a threat to the most basic right of life.
 
mrdeltoid said:
Boom! Drop mic
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Thanks, but I wasn’t the first to point this out to the anti-American, anti-Constitutionalists on this forum.

The great thing about the Internet is that it is a true democracy; everyone has the freedom to say what they want. This forum is free, but the owners have liability issues so they limit some things such as threats and stalking, but aside from that, everyone is equal here. A person can be a 12 year old their personal $4000 laptop or a homeless person using a library computer. They can also claim to be anything they want. All we have on these forums is our virtual reputation. Not our claims, but our posts.

I take everyone at their face value, but there’s always that little grain of salt....which I recommend everyone to take. You stated you were a Marine and I take your word for it. There is no reason to doubt you and, unless there is a reason to doubt you (which there isn’t) I’ll welcome you as my brother Marine. It works both ways.

Semper Fi, Mac.
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Rich2018 said:
Freedom is overrated
Every society impinges "freedom" in some way, and often in many ways...even democracies restrict some freedoms so that others can be maintained.

Now you start a straw man argument by saying I'm free to repeal amendments 1-10
When all that's proposed is repealing ONE amendment

Gun owners will hysterically wail about people threatening their "rights" when in actual fact it is just ONE right.

And it removes a threat to the most basic right of life.
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QED

It’s easy to attack people or make claims against people but it’s really easy to highlight their own posts and let those posts reveal their true nature.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
It’s easy to attack people...
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LOL

Pot....kettle....black


It seems you're ready to insult or attack people (remember the "lying POS" accusation ?
It seems you're less reading to be attacked


....it’s really easy to highlight their own posts and let those posts reveal their true nature.
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You try to do it all the time...not that you'd do it to "attack" anyone

Freedom ***IS*** overrated
Every society impinges "freedom" in some way, and often in many ways...even democracies restrict some freedoms so that others can be maintained.


As Napoleon once said "A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights."


Do you still demonize the gun control lobby as out to destroy "your rights" to repeal the Bill of Rights to set up a "communist state" ?


The wailing hysteria of the RW is at best laughable and at worst a dangerous form of fascist paranoia.
 
Digger said:
It's not the guns I have a problem with. It's the possibility that their bullets end up in my children that concerns me. Do you have any glib suggestions to prevent that from happening?
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" It's the possibility that"?
1- The possibility they get hit by a car
2- The possibility you get t-boned by a car with said children
3- The possibility you t-bone someone with said children
4- The possibility they slip in the shower or bathtub
I can go on and on about possibilities and that's what they are are possibilities but you fixate on guns.Why? It's the in thing to do? Maybe PC?
 
Rich2018 said:
No, repeal all gun laws with one banning all guns
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As I said before we shouldn't have to do that. You don't like guns so don't own any, nobody is making you own guns. So you have nothing to complain about.
 
Digger said:
How come guns are the one thing that are immune to laws? For cars we have cops driving around all the time making sure people ate driving safely, car seat laws, etc. It's like a functioning society regulates stuff that kills people.

Clearly what people have tried so far hasn't worked. Sp let's try something else. Where's your can do attitude?
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How long have cars been around with cops enforcing traffic laws. How long have guns been around? But gun laws for the most part haven't been enforced because there was no need. About the last 25 years or so is when gun laws really started getting out of hand.
 
Digger said:
Not all regulations are the same. It's not a yes/no question. Just because some regulations don't work, doesn't mean that other regulations won't. In this case it's also a circular argument, since the reason the current laws don't work is that they were weakened by the gun lobby.

States laws can't address this issue. Not with federal loopholes big enough to drive a truck load of guns through. The gun show loophole. The straw buyer loophole. Without fixes to these federal laws, states have very little power to regulate guns within their borders... as you've pointed out.
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I thought they plugged the truck load of guns loophole a couple of years ago.
 
zsu2357 said:
Left off a zero. Probably more by now.;)
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Gun violence is a cultural thing more than a legal thing. You can enact all the gun laws in the world and it won't keep some gang banger from offing someone with a gun. If people want to stop gun violence, stop blaming the tool and address the user.
 
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