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Thread: "Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

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    "Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

    Perhaps the most favorite game that the gun control crowd loves to play is to point out how countries with stricter gun laws have less murders. Countries such as the U.K. and Australia and Japan, all of which have very strict gun control, all have lower murder rates than a country such as the U.S.A. which is much more gun friendly. Making such claims is all fine and dandy if you want to cherry pick but just because a country has stricter gun laws doesn't mean it has a lower murder rate and just because a country is more gun friendly doesn't mean it has a higher murder rate.

    Take for instance the country of South Africa. In South Africa they've got much stricter gun control than in the USA and they've also got a much higher murder rate. The murder rate in the USA is roughly 5.3 per 100,000 people whereas in South Africa its roughly 35.9 per 100,000 people. So in the country of South Africa with their much stricter gun laws they've got a murder rate that's close to 7 times higher than that of the much more gun friendly USA. So there you have it, stricter gun control does not mean less murders and if you point out countries such as the U.K. and Australia and Japan you're doing nothing but cherry picking and that's all there is to it.

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    Re: "Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

    Quote Originally Posted by DebateChallenge View Post
    The murder rate in the USA is roughly 5.3 per 100,000 people
    It's also important to note that gun violence in the US is very concentrated. A big portion of the US murder rate is Democrats killing each other in inner city neighborhoods. Leave them out and the US is an extremely safe country.

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    Re: "Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

    Quote Originally Posted by DebateChallenge View Post
    Perhaps the most favorite game that the gun control crowd loves to play is to point out how countries with stricter gun laws have less murders. Countries such as the U.K. and Australia and Japan, all of which have very strict gun control, all have lower murder rates than a country such as the U.S.A. which is much more gun friendly. Making such claims is all fine and dandy if you want to cherry pick but just because a country has stricter gun laws doesn't mean it has a lower murder rate and just because a country is more gun friendly doesn't mean it has a higher murder rate.

    Take for instance the country of South Africa. In South Africa they've got much stricter gun control than in the USA and they've also got a much higher murder rate. The murder rate in the USA is roughly 5.3 per 100,000 people whereas in South Africa its roughly 35.9 per 100,000 people. So in the country of South Africa with their much stricter gun laws they've got a murder rate that's close to 7 times higher than that of the much more gun friendly USA. So there you have it, stricter gun control does not mean less murders and if you point out countries such as the U.K. and Australia and Japan you're doing nothing but cherry picking and that's all there is to it.
    Having strict laws does not mean much if they lack rigorous enforcement. For example, the US has strict recreational drug laws (a complete nationwide ban which has been in effect for decades), but due to lack of rigorous enforcement (especially on the demand side) it has loads of drug-related deaths and crime.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: "Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    It's also important to note that gun violence in the US is very concentrated. A big portion of the US murder rate is Democrats killing each other in inner city neighborhoods. Leave them out and the US is an extremely safe country.
    Yep, that's why the focus is often shifted (limited?) to "mass shootings" where the perps and victims are more "politically correct".
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: "Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

    And Brazil, they have gun control laws and a murder rate out of control.

    Now compare the USA with a Western Country similar to the USA, not South Africa.

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    Re: "Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

    Quote Originally Posted by DebateChallenge View Post
    Perhaps the most favorite game that the gun control crowd loves to play is to point out how countries with stricter gun laws have less murders. Countries such as the U.K. and Australia and Japan, all of which have very strict gun control, all have lower murder rates than a country such as the U.S.A. which is much more gun friendly. Making such claims is all fine and dandy if you want to cherry pick but just because a country has stricter gun laws doesn't mean it has a lower murder rate and just because a country is more gun friendly doesn't mean it has a higher murder rate.

    Take for instance the country of South Africa. In South Africa they've got much stricter gun control than in the USA and they've also got a much higher murder rate. The murder rate in the USA is roughly 5.3 per 100,000 people whereas in South Africa its roughly 35.9 per 100,000 people. So in the country of South Africa with their much stricter gun laws they've got a murder rate that's close to 7 times higher than that of the much more gun friendly USA. So there you have it, stricter gun control does not mean less murders and if you point out countries such as the U.K. and Australia and Japan you're doing nothing but cherry picking and that's all there is to it.
    Gun control does not live in a vacuum. It is one of many factors that influences murder rates and violence.

    The main factors that drive crime, murder and violence is poverty, income inequality and racism. Guns help to make those problems way worse. Banning guns goes a long way to lessen the impact, but as long as you dont combat poverty, income inequality and racism, then well you aint gonna get much done.
    PeteEU

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    Re: "Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    And Brazil, they have gun control laws and a murder rate out of control.

    Now compare the USA with a Western Country similar to the USA, not South Africa.
    People are people, you don't get to cherry pick countries in order to reach the conclusion you want.

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    Re: "Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

    Quote Originally Posted by DebateChallenge View Post
    Perhaps the most favorite game that the gun control crowd loves to play is to point out how countries with stricter gun laws have less murders. Countries such as the U.K. and Australia and Japan, all of which have very strict gun control, all have lower murder rates than a country such as the U.S.A. which is much more gun friendly. Making such claims is all fine and dandy if you want to cherry pick but just because a country has stricter gun laws doesn't mean it has a lower murder rate and just because a country is more gun friendly doesn't mean it has a higher murder rate.

    Take for instance the country of South Africa. In South Africa they've got much stricter gun control than in the USA and they've also got a much higher murder rate. The murder rate in the USA is roughly 5.3 per 100,000 people whereas in South Africa its roughly 35.9 per 100,000 people. So in the country of South Africa with their much stricter gun laws they've got a murder rate that's close to 7 times higher than that of the much more gun friendly USA. So there you have it, stricter gun control does not mean less murders and if you point out countries such as the U.K. and Australia and Japan you're doing nothing but cherry picking and that's all there is to it.
    So you allege that people cherry-pick, and then you... cherry-pick? Nice.

    South Africa has a high crime rate not because of gun laws, but because their law enforcement is a basket case. The police spent decades upholding apartheid, beating blacks and arresting political activists, not stopping crimes. Apartheid also shattered trust in government and law enforcement, and encouraged vigilantism on all sides. (Anti-immigrant sentiment is also manifesting as violence, by the way.) It's taken years to retrain the police (a difficult task even in the best of times), and for people to care about the rule of law. Even so, enforcement of gun laws is surely weak compared to many other nations.

    One result of this is that murder rates shot up for years, and only started to fall when Apartheid started to collapse in the early 90s:




    We should also note that gun control activists never say that "gun ownership is the only factor in homicide rates." So you're not only cherry-picking, you're also using a straw man argument. Real nice.

    Meanwhile, it isn't hard to find dozens of nations with decent gun control laws -- and perhaps more importantly, a culture less fanatical about guns than the US -- that have lower homicide rates, correlated with lower gun ownership rates. After all, there are around 140 nations with lower homicide rates than the US....
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    Re: "Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

    Quote Originally Posted by aociswundumho View Post
    People are people, you don't get to cherry pick countries in order to reach the conclusion you want.
    Yes you do.

    When discussing laws concerning social control - you absolutely judge yourselves with other countries similar to you.


    For instance, when debating a new medicare act, you don't look to see what works well in Somalia


    Most stupid comment of the day.

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    Re: "Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    Yes you do.

    When discussing laws concerning social control -
    Very good. Gun control laws are actually people control laws, which is why your kind luvs them so much.

    you absolutely judge yourselves with other countries similar to you.
    Why?

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