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Utah Mass Shooting

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Rising Sun said:
Sorry, I thought your post understood that murders were disproportionately in cities and black-on-black murders such as Chicago this weekend.
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What? You said, "I see no need to make it about race, but that's your choice." And if population density were the cause, why don't dense, diverse cities elsewhere have similar violent crime rates? Even within the US, the state with the highest rates of violent crime and gun crime is Alaska.

States with the most (and least) gun violence. See where your state stacks up.

1. Alaska
Firearm deaths per 100,000 people: 23.0 per 100,000
Total firearm deaths 2016: 177 (suicides: 113, homicides: 45)
Violent crime rate: 804.2 per 100,000 (the highest)
Permit required to carry handgun: No
Poverty rate: 9.9% (6th lowest)

Low population, low poverty, low black population. I don't know where to get the stats but I bet they have a low mental illness rate, too.

It's a cultural problem. It's fun and satisfying to point partisan or racial fingers at it but It's pervasive. Especially if we're talking about mass killings. We are talking about mass killings, right? The population density and poverty and race considerations disappear in a puff of smoke when it's mass killings in the subject line.
 
Grand Mal said:
What? You said, "I see no need to make it about race, but that's your choice." And if population density were the cause, why don't dense, diverse cities elsewhere have similar violent crime rates? Even within the US, the state with the highest rates of violent crime and gun crime is Alaska.

States with the most (and least) gun violence. See where your state stacks up.

1. Alaska
Firearm deaths per 100,000 people: 23.0 per 100,000
Total firearm deaths 2016: 177 (suicides: 113, homicides: 45)
Violent crime rate: 804.2 per 100,000 (the highest)
Permit required to carry handgun: No
Poverty rate: 9.9% (6th lowest)

Low population, low poverty, low black population. I don't know where to get the stats but I bet they have a low mental illness rate, too.

It's a cultural problem. It's fun and satisfying to point partisan or racial fingers at it but It's pervasive. Especially if we're talking about mass killings. We are talking about mass killings, right? The population density and poverty and race considerations disappear in a puff of smoke when it's mass killings in the subject line.
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Racists only like the statistics that support their racism. Hence, the Right's oft citing of bogus data from the Bell Curve but much ignorance of high homicide rates in rural states, like we see above in AK, while Chicago, with a low HR, gets all the attention in the Right Wing media.
 
calamity said:
Racists only like the statistics that support their racism. Hence, the Right's oft citing of bogus data from the Bell Curve but much ignorance of high homicide rates in rural states, like we see above in AK, while Chicago, with a low HR, gets all the attention in the Right Wing media.
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why does a group that is less than 4% of the population, commit over half the murders?
 
calamity said:
See??
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only people who are not interested in a factual discussion, try to ruin a conversation by insinuating that an accurate recitation of facts is "racist".
 
Grand Mal said:
What? You said, "I see no need to make it about race, but that's your choice." And if population density were the cause, why don't dense, diverse cities elsewhere have similar violent crime rates? Even within the US, the state with the highest rates of violent crime and gun crime is Alaska.

States with the most (and least) gun violence. See where your state stacks up.

1. Alaska
Firearm deaths per 100,000 people: 23.0 per 100,000
Total firearm deaths 2016: 177 (suicides: 113, homicides: 45)
Violent crime rate: 804.2 per 100,000 (the highest)
Permit required to carry handgun: No
Poverty rate: 9.9% (6th lowest)

Low population, low poverty, low black population. I don't know where to get the stats but I bet they have a low mental illness rate, too.

It's a cultural problem. It's fun and satisfying to point partisan or racial fingers at it but It's pervasive. Especially if we're talking about mass killings. We are talking about mass killings, right? The population density and poverty and race considerations disappear in a puff of smoke when it's mass killings in the subject line.
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"Gun violence" with over twice as many suicides as murders. LOL
 
TurtleDude said:
only people who are not interested in a factual discussion, try to ruin a conversation by insinuating that an accurate recitation of facts is "racist".
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First off your assertion was false. But, do try proving me wrong.

And, yes that "why does a group" statement was racist, by definition.
 
Rising Sun said:
"Gun violence" with over twice as many suicides as murders. LOL
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Suicide by gun is considered violence. It harms survivors, hence there are victims. And, since it ends in a violent death, it's clearly violent.
 
calamity said:
First off your assertion was false. But, do try proving me wrong.

And, yes that "why does a group" statement was racist, by definition.
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your definition of racism is more based on a proclivity to bait, rather than veracity. The fact is, black males between the ages of 15-40, commit more than half the murders in the USA, and given the "no snitch mentality" the number is probably higher because many of the unsolved murders in the USA involve inner city drug gang violence.

tell us how that point is "racist".
 
calamity said:
Suicide by gun is considered violence. It harms survivors, hence there are victims. And, since it ends in a violent death, it's clearly violent.
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a most worthless faux tautology
 
Rising Sun said:
"Gun violence" with over twice as many suicides as murders. LOL
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yeah, walking down a dark street after your car breaks down, what do you fear? OMG I might shoot myself!!!!
 
Rising Sun said:
"Gun violence" with over twice as many suicides as murders. LOL
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C'mon now, That's not in the gun violence category, It's in the total firearm deaths category. It's right there for all to see. Violent crime rate the highest in the country.
I might have misjudged you. I guess we've exhausted the subject, or our ability to discuss it anyway. You get the last word, make it good.
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah, walking down a dark street after your car breaks down, what do you fear? OMG I might shoot myself!!!!
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I get that, maybe, if someone is a chick. But seriously--a dude fears walking down a "dark street?

Wow!
 
TurtleDude said:
your definition of racism is more based on a proclivity to bait, rather than veracity. The fact is, black males between the ages of 15-40, commit more than half the murders in the USA, and given the "no snitch mentality" the number is probably higher because many of the unsolved murders in the USA involve inner city drug gang violence.

tell us how that point is "racist".
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How about first proving that over half the murders are committed by 4% of the population? We'll explore the racism behind your remark after you prove it wasn't a lie.
 
calamity said:
How about first proving that over half the murders are committed by 4% of the population? We'll explore the racism behind your remark after you prove it wasn't a lie.
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we will use some logic

what is the percentage of blacks in the US population

what percent of those are male

what percent are male between the ages of 15-40

and the statistics constantly cited suggest 51% of those convicted of murder are blacks-and YOU YOURSELF have noted most firearms murderers are male

do the math
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah, walking down a dark street after your car breaks down, what do you fear? OMG I might shoot myself!!!!
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Except that's not the category suicides are listed in. Suicides are in the total gun deaths category, not gun violence.
What say you? Any guesses why Alaska so soundly refutes nearly every argument about gun violence relating to poverty or population or race? Or gun laws, one argument has it that strict gun laws encourage more gun violence. Alaska refutes that one too.
I say It's not mental illness, It's not race, It's not poverty or population density. I say the US has a culture of violence that just has to be lived with because it can't be changed.
 
Rich2018 said:
Or you might shoot someone else, who presents no threat to you, out of your fear.
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the people you want with the only legal arms-government agents-are far more likely to do that than private citizens who are legally armed
 
truthatallcost said:
The left wants-
- open borders with Mexico
- a ban on guns in the USA

Are the cartels going to give up their guns too? They're present in all 50 states.
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You mean the Democrats don't want to spend billions on a useless wall that a certain president lied that Mexico would pay for.
 
Grand Mal said:
Except that's not the category suicides are listed in. Suicides are in the total gun deaths category, not gun violence.
What say you? Any guesses why Alaska so soundly refutes nearly every argument about gun violence relating to poverty or population or race? Or gun laws, one argument has it that strict gun laws encourage more gun violence. Alaska refutes that one too.
I say It's not mental illness, It's not race, It's not poverty or population density. I say the US has a culture of violence that just has to be lived with because it can't be changed.
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its cultural. the native american population in Alaska has high rates of suicide. so do middle aged middle class white males who are a large group up there
 
TurtleDude said:
we will use some logic

what is the percentage of blacks in the US population

what percent of those are male

what percent are male between the ages of 15-40

and the statistics constantly cited suggest 51% of those convicted of murder are blacks-and YOU YOURSELF have noted most firearms murderers are male

do the math
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You specifically said over 50% and 4%. Males commit about 90% of the murders. So, using your cited number above, we are already falling below the 50% mark when pinning all these murders on black males, which make up about 7.5% of the population. And, we can probably find a pretty sizable percentage of the 40-70 group committing the crime as well, knocking your bogus 4% commit over 50% stat down even further.

smh
 
calamity said:
Suicide by gun is considered violence. It harms survivors, hence there are victims. And, since it ends in a violent death, it's clearly violent.
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So is the 22,000 suicides by means other than firearms, but LW gun-grabbers don't give a damn about them. So are the 35,000 auto fatalities every year, but LW gun-grabbers don't give a damn about them. All the LW gun-grabbers give a damn about are the mentally ill whackos who murder someone in a church or a mall.
 
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