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VA Gov declares state of emergency

Rich2018 said:
There are too many guns to collect/seize
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How would you go about confiscating every single civilian owned firearm in America where there are, by most estimates, more firearms than citizens? Do you really think that is even remotely likely to ever happen?
 
Rich2018 said:
If you're stating they're false, then disprove them.
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You have yet to provide any proof that they are lies besides the “because I said so” argument.

The onus is on you to prove they are lies not on TD
 
RaleBulgarian said:
How would you go about confiscating every single civilian owned firearm in America where there are, by most estimates, more firearms than citizens? Do you really think that is even remotely likely to ever happen?
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I think I'd repeal the 2nd amendment first
Then offer an amnesty
Then systematically search and seize (backed up by the threat of hefty fines and/or prison terms)

It won't be done in a day, make no mistake. It will take years. Maybe a decade or two before guns are effectively removed from society.

And yes you will never 100% absolutely remove guns.
 
Chillfolks said:
You have yet to provide any proof that they are lies besides the “because I said so” argument.

The onus is on you to prove they are lies not on TD
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By all means tell me what proof you'd accept

Oh and Btw you also have a burden too since you said those statements were lies/wrong rather than simply saying you a skeptical and don't necessarily believe them.
 
Rich2018 said:
I think I'd repeal the 2nd amendment first
Then offer an amnesty
Then systematically search and seize (backed up by the threat of hefty fines and/or prison terms)

It won't be done in a day, make no mistake. It will take years. Maybe a decade or two before guns are effectively removed from society.

And yes you will never 100% absolutely remove guns.
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Good of you to acknowledge that, even given your fantasy solution of attempting to disarm Americans, that all firearms could never be confiscated.
 
Rich2018 said:
I think I'd repeal the 2nd amendment first
Then offer an amnesty
Then systematically search and seize (backed up by the threat of hefty fines and/or prison terms)

It won't be done in a day, make no mistake. It will take years. Maybe a decade or two before guns are effectively removed from society.

And yes you will never 100% absolutely remove guns.
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You would also need to repeal the 4th Amendment for your scheme to work.
 
Rich2018 said:
How so ?

No searches would or could be made without a warrant.
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How would you know who has the guns? They only way to confiscate the guns is going house to house
 
Chillfolks said:
How would you know who has the guns? They only way to confiscate the guns is going house to house
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Seriously?

Gun sales records
Ammunition sales records
Gun club memberships
Gun range records
CCW licences
Credit card records and shipping addresses of anyone who's bought an accessory from on-line companies including Amazon
Police records of anyone with a gun related arrest
Tip offs


And they're just the obvious ones I can think of.
 
Rich2018 said:
Seriously?

Gun sales records
Ammunition sales records
Gun club memberships
Gun range records
CCW licences
Credit card records and shipping addresses of anyone who's bought an accessory from on-line companies including Amazon
Police records of anyone with a gun related arrest
Tip offs


And they're just the obvious ones I can think of.
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Wow I'm actually speechless that anyone would purpose such authoritarian and unconstitutional tactics.
 
Chillfolks said:
Wow I'm actually speechless that anyone would purpose such authoritarian and unconstitutional tactics.
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It's called police work.

You asked and I answered - did you think to police are mindless automatons with no deductive reasoning.


and what of the above would be "unconstitutional" ?
 
Rich2018 said:
It's called police work.

You asked and I answered - did you think to police are mindless automatons with no deductive reasoning.


and what of the above would be "unconstitutional" ?
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The fishing expedition that wpuld be required to compile the information you request.

As far as I'm concerned this conversation is over you've lost what little respect I had for your position. If I told you what I really thought of you I'm sure I would get an infraction or banned. Thank God we have laws and a constitution that would prevent someone like you from actually carrying out thise purposels.
 
Chillfolks said:
The fishing expedition that wpuld be required to compile the information you request.
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How would they be affected and how would it be unconstitutional ?

Which part of the Constitution would it breach ?


As far as I'm concerned this conversation is over you've lost what little respect I had for your position...
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Should I take that to mean that your retract than the above sources would be "unconstitutional" to use to find guns/gun owners and that you have no argument left to make ?
 
Rich2018 said:
How would they be affected and how would it be unconstitutional ?

Which part of the Constitution would it breach ?
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Because you would need to search the records of every single person in the US going back for decades in the hopes of maybe possibly finding useful information. A clear violation of the 4th. No judge or court in the US would grant a warrant to do so.

Should I take that to mean that your retract than the above sources would be "unconstitutional" to use to find guns/gun owners and that you have no argument left to make ?
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You should take it to mean a pile of dog **** is more respectable than you are. If you need to claim victory to massage you impotent ego so be it.
 
Chillfolks said:
Because you would need to search the records of every single person in the US going back for decades in the hopes of maybe possibly finding useful information. A clear violation of the 4th. No judge or court in the US would grant a warrant to do so.
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You obviously haven't read the Patriot Act :)

Have you ever heard the phrase "follow to money" The police get warrants to check you bank details all the time...in cases or murder, missing persons etc, the police can search things like your social media. So if you met a murder victim via a dating site, they will find you and question you

If law enforcement wants to find the guns (bear in mind they're illegal in this scenario) they won't have trouble in seizing records like gun range accounts or on-line companies' records of gun accessories/ammunition supplies. It does NOT break the 4th or any other amendment




You should take it to mean a pile of dog **** is more respectable than you are. If you need to claim victory to massage you impotent ego so be it.
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You really need to wake up....and clearly you do not argue in good faith.
You're wrong and you know it. Your arguments are weak and totally without substance.
 
Rich2018 said:
You obviously haven't read the Patriot Act :)

Have you ever heard the phrase "follow to money" The police get warrants to check you bank details all the time...in cases or murder, missing persons etc, the police can search things like your social media. So if you met a murder victim via a dating site, they will find you and question you

If law enforcement wants to find the guns (bear in mind they're illegal in this scenario) they won't have trouble in seizing records like gun range accounts or on-line companies' records of gun accessories/ammunition supplies. It does NOT break the 4th or any other amendment






You really need to wake up....and clearly you do not argue in good faith.
You're wrong and you know it. Your arguments are weak and totally without substance.
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Your trying to equate getting the records of onw suspect to getting the records of every person in the United States then have then accuse me of not arguing in good faith. You've lost this argument but can't admit the error of your ways, typically of you. At least be honest and admit you don't care how unconstitutional your approach is, to to you it's all worth it if it gets ride of guns.
 
Chillfolks said:
Your trying to equate getting the records of onw suspect to getting the records of every person in the United States then have then accuse me of not arguing in good faith. You've lost this argument but can't admit the error of your ways, typically of you. At least be honest and admit you don't care how unconstitutional your approach is, to to you it's all worth it if it gets ride of guns.
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Not every person.

If guns are illegal and the records of ammunition supply companies are seized, might that not be a good indicator of where the guns are ?

No-one's rights have been violated. If records show ammunition has been in the past to a certain address, and that person had CCW and frequented a gun range AND had not surrendered a firearm. Would that not be grounds to search his/her house ?


Where is the lack of good faith? How do you think police work is done ?

Once again, none of the above is unconstitutional. It's basic police work.
 
Rich2018 said:
Not every person.

If guns are illegal and the records of ammunition supply companies are seized, might that not be a good indicator of where the guns are ?
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And how do you find the guns that were purchased with cash, that have no record, along with ammo purchases?
No-one's rights have been violated. If records show ammunition has been in the past to a certain address, and that person had CCW and frequented a gun range AND had not surrendered a firearm. Would that not be grounds to search his/her house ?
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No the would not be. And you've moved the goal posts and retreated from your original claims. I will accept your defeat.

Where is the lack of good faith? How do you think police work is done ?

Once again, none of the above is unconstitutional. It's basic police work.
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It would be unconstitutional and anyone purpoasing such actions is simply a fool.
 
Chillfolks said:
And how do you find the guns that were purchased with cash, that have no record, along with ammo purchases?
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Tip offs mostly

Presumably the
owners of those guns have used them occasionally - at a public of private gun range.


People found with illegal guns might "rat" on others to get a lighter sentence.

Chicago PD declared that it seized 100,000 illegal guns alone in one year - I think it was 2018


...and you've moved the goal posts ...
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Another disingenuous claim from you
How have the "goal posts" been moved ?


It would be unconstitutional and anyone purpoasing such actions is simply a fool.
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What constitutional clause does it breach (and no it doesn't breach the 4th amendment in any way) ?

Why would anyone be "foolish" to deny the police their basic detection techniques ?
 
Rich2018 said:
Tip offs mostly

Presumably the
owners of those guns have used them occasionally - at a public of private gun range.


People found with illegal guns might "rat" on others to get a lighter sentence.

Chicago PD declared that it seized 100,000 illegal guns alone in one year - I think it was 2018




Another disingenuous claim from you
How have the "goal posts" been moved ?





What constitutional clause does it breach (and no it doesn't breach the 4th amendment in any way) ?

Why would anyone be "foolish" to deny the police their basic detection techniques ?
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What constitutional clause grants congress the legislative power to prevent what guns the people of the several states may acquire or possess?
 
Rich2018 said:
Tip offs mostly
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Ah, turning neighbor against neighbor. A classic totalitarian move.

And this totalitarian regime you advocate isn't going to mess with your comfortable existence?
 
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