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Thread: Training as Gun Control act

  1. #111
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    Re: Training as Gun Control act

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnFox View Post
    I'm just hoping training is way to influence in right way, giving some perspective and hands-on knowledge. Also when something bad is happening there is people around who can act and shoot when needed (to prevent more tragedy). For car you need some lessons and practice, so why not with guns too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Again, no one has ever said people shouldnt have training. AFAIK, everyone supports that.

    My question to you is...what would it do to prevent gun violence? The bar in the US is high...and it should remain so...to force things unnecessarily on its citizens. So...there needs to be a substantial, valid reason to impose something on people by law (esp. if there's no evidence it will solve the problem). So: what gun violence would training prevent?

    And then the next question would be: compared to driving (your example)...how many gun deaths/injuries are caused by 'lack of training?' And then we can compare those to car accidents.
    I didnt see an answer to this. I think it would be significant to see how many gun deaths/injuries from lack of training can be compared to car accidents. There is a parallel there.
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  2. #112
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    Re: Training as Gun Control act

    Quote Originally Posted by RF667799 View Post
    I'm not surprised. I've inspected, disassembled, assembled, tested and repaired on occasion hundreds and hundreds of them. Literally over a thousand. I carried different examples daily for five years. I've owned several of my own. The only thing I would grant is that some of them can be finicky about feeding certain bullet types- but that can be remedied. "Jam-prone" as a general description is just stupid.
    I had to qualify with the M1911 in the Marine Corps during the 1970s, but otherwise my experience with the firearm has been very limited. My preferred side-arm is the Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Mag. Because of its weight I tend to have closer groupings. I also own a Beretta 92F, but only use it for target practice. I've put approximately 5,000 rounds through both firearms and never had a problem with a jamming Beretta either.

    In fact, the only firearm where I've had consistent problems with jamming are 12-gauge shotguns that use 3" shells. Using 2-3/4" shells and there are no jams, but as soon as you start using 3" shells the problem arises. I've experienced this issue with Remington, Winchester, Ithica, and to a lesser extent with Mossberg.

  3. #113
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    Re: Training as Gun Control act

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    I had to qualify with the M1911 in the Marine Corps during the 1970s, but otherwise my experience with the firearm has been very limited. My preferred side-arm is the Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Mag. Because of its weight I tend to have closer groupings. I also own a Beretta 92F, but only use it for target practice. I've put approximately 5,000 rounds through both firearms and never had a problem with a jamming Beretta either.

    In fact, the only firearm where I've had consistent problems with jamming are 12-gauge shotguns that use 3" shells. Using 2-3/4" shells and there are no jams, but as soon as you start using 3" shells the problem arises. I've experienced this issue with Remington, Winchester, Ithica, and to a lesser extent with Mossberg.
    Autoloading shotguns? Are they usually failures to extract, eject or what?
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  4. #114
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    Re: Training as Gun Control act

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What gun violence does training prevent?

    And I have never ever heard or read any gun/2A supporter claim that training was a bad idea. We always encourage it.
    I think training and practice are great ideas and strongly encourage both. However, it shouldnt be used by the government as an obstacle to exercising a constitutional right.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  5. #115
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    Re: Training as Gun Control act

    Quote Originally Posted by RF667799 View Post
    Autoloading shotguns? Are they usually failures to extract, eject or what?
    The Ithica was semi-auto, but the Remington Model 570, the Winchester Model 1912, and the Mossberg Model 500 were all pump-action shotguns. They all get caught up in the ejection port after firing when attempting to cycle a round. Not every time, but often enough to become an annoyance and a concern. It was one of the reasons why I replaced my Mossberg Model 500 with an AR12 in 2018. The main reason why I replaced the firearm, however, was because it had been my "camp gun" for the last 28 years and was showing signs of wear. My AR12 is my new primary "camp gun" and I cannot afford to have it jam. I've tested out the AR12 and had no problems using the 3" shell. I still have it loaded with just 2-3/4" slugs just to be on the safe side, but so far I've fired a couple of hundred 3" slugs without it jamming.

  6. #116
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    Re: Training as Gun Control act

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    The Ithica was semi-auto, but the Remington Model 570, the Winchester Model 1912, and the Mossberg Model 500 were all pump-action shotguns. They all get caught up in the ejection port after firing when attempting to cycle a round. Not every time, but often enough to become an annoyance and a concern. It was one of the reasons why I replaced my Mossberg Model 500 with an AR12 in 2018. The main reason why I replaced the firearm, however, was because it had been my "camp gun" for the last 28 years and was showing signs of wear. My AR12 is my new primary "camp gun" and I cannot afford to have it jam. I've tested out the AR12 and had no problems using the 3" shell. I still have it loaded with just 2-3/4" slugs just to be on the safe side, but so far I've fired a couple of hundred 3" slugs without it jamming.
    modern semi auto shotguns are far better at going from 2-3/4 inch shells with 2.75 drams of powder (a normal quail or trap load) to 3" hot high brass goose loads or buckshot. The best on the market are the FnH SLP-1 and the Reminton Versa-Max. My son runs the latter in 3G competitions, and I the former. The benelli inertia action semi autos are legendary for being able to do that but they kick a bit more than the gas rigs like the SLP. The Mossberg Semi auto is really good for being half the money of the SLP or the Versamax-I have one of the 3G competition versions endorsed by Jerry Miculeck and I shot a really high Sporting clays score with it even though it got some funny looks from the guys I beat who were packing 7000 dollar K-80s and Beretta D-11s
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
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    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
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  7. #117
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    Re: Training as Gun Control act

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    modern semi auto shotguns are far better at going from 2-3/4 inch shells with 2.75 drams of powder (a normal quail or trap load) to 3" hot high brass goose loads or buckshot. The best on the market are the FnH SLP-1 and the Reminton Versa-Max. My son runs the latter in 3G competitions, and I the former. The benelli inertia action semi autos are legendary for being able to do that but they kick a bit more than the gas rigs like the SLP. The Mossberg Semi auto is really good for being half the money of the SLP or the Versamax-I have one of the 3G competition versions endorsed by Jerry Miculeck and I shot a really high Sporting clays score with it even though it got some funny looks from the guys I beat who were packing 7000 dollar K-80s and Beretta D-11s
    Benelli is what my father used, and liked very much. Unfortunately, I don't remember the model. I use my Remington Model 570 on grouse and ptarmigan, so 2-3/4" shells using 6-shot is all I really need. I remember when I only needed 8-shot for quail, dove and other small birds, but those were the days of lead shot and they are long gone now. My Mossberg is now "retired" and I've had one full salmon season with the AR12. Already I prefer it over the Mossberg for its accuracy. However, it does have a slightly longer barrel at 20", that will make a difference.

    I don't compete, but I do practice with clay pigeons. I rent a portable thrower from the range and will go threw a couple of boxes of clays in a session. Usually in July, just before grouse season begins in August. Unlike duck or geese, grouse tend to fly in short bursts very low to the ground. So you need to be quick and accurate. Which makes shooting clays the perfect practice.
    Last edited by Glitch; 01-09-20 at 12:30 AM.

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