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Bill to remove short barreled rifles from NFA.

mrjurrs said:
Makes it easier to conceal.
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Conceal for what? A crime? If I am planning to commit a crime with a firearm... like robbery or rape or murder...

Do you think I am going to be afraid of the law against me sawing a few inches off the barrel of a firearm?

Plus... If I want, I could just use a handgun.. which is completely legal..So I can legally own and buy a handgun with a 2 inch barrel...

But I can't legally own a "rifle".. with a 15 1/2 inch barrelll.. because that 15 1/2 inch barreled gun is "easier to conceal"...?????


Please explain your logic here.
 
Rich2018 said:
A sawed off shotgun ?


Because of it's obvious criminal use and it's inerrant danger in using.
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Rich have you been watching TV again? You know where the sawed off 12ga. blows a 5x5 hole in a cinder block wall at 10 paces.
Like that "obvious criminal use". Know doubt dangerous to people around you shooting it. Hell you'd probably put your out.
 
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TurtleDude said:
he is on record wanting to ban all guns

they are part of that larger set

therefore he wants to ban them
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No doubt about it. But here he thinks there is something overwhelmingly evil about half an inch of barrel.
 
jaeger19 said:
Conceal for what? A crime? If I am planning to commit a crime with a firearm... like robbery or rape or murder...

Do you think I am going to be afraid of the law against me sawing a few inches off the barrel of a firearm?

Plus... If I want, I could just use a handgun.. which is completely legal..So I can legally own and buy a handgun with a 2 inch barrel...

But I can't legally own a "rifle".. with a 15 1/2 inch barrelll.. because that 15 1/2 inch barreled gun is "easier to conceal"...?????


Please explain your logic here.
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His logic with Rich' sailed out the window long ago.
 
Maccabee said:
I'm personally skeptical about it passing after what happened to the hearing protection act and national reciprocity for carry permits, but I'd thought it'll be a nice topic to discuss. I personally don't see any issue with. We already have AR pistols with arm braces that can act like a stock so the NFA is mostly defunct anyway is this regard.
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Some WW II Lugers had provisions for clip on wooden holster/stocks.

Most of the AR ban type ban items have nothing to do with mass shootings or ghetto guns.

Thumbhole, folding, pistol grip stocks. Silencers/supressors. Barrel shrouds. Bayonet mounts. How does that matter? Even bump stocks and high cap magazines don't figure in criminal shootings.
 
Rich2018 said:
It's not, and I didn't say it was.

I guess the government wants to draw the line somewhere and a restriction of rifle barrel lengths probably affects restrictions on shotgun barrel lengths.
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The bill is about rifles NOT shotguns.

Rich2018 said:
You may be OK with a very short length shotgun barrel but I am not OK with that.
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The bill is about rifles NOT shotguns.

And in terms of rifles, how is handgun not just technically a short rifle?
 
jaeger19 said:
Please.

Okay.. please explain how if my rifle barrel is 15 and 1/2 inches its appreciably more dangerous than when my rifle barrel is 16 inches.

.
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In fact short barrel firearms have far less muzzle velocity and therefore less lethal.

I think I remember a .38 Sp out of a 2 inch barrel has about half the velocity as the same round out of a 7.5 inch barrel.
 
jaeger19 said:
Conceal for what? A crime? If I am planning to commit a crime with a firearm... like robbery or rape or murder...

Do you think I am going to be afraid of the law against me sawing a few inches off the barrel of a firearm?

Plus... If I want, I could just use a handgun.. which is completely legal..So I can legally own and buy a handgun with a 2 inch barrel...

But I can't legally own a "rifle".. with a 15 1/2 inch barrelll.. because that 15 1/2 inch barreled gun is "easier to conceal"...?????


Please explain your logic here.
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I don't need to use logic, one reason it could be treated differently is that it would be easier to conceal than a longer barrel. That wouldn't be the reason you couldn't own one, the law would be the reason you couldn't own one. Every law has those spots that are barely legal or illegal.
 
TurtleDude said:
Rich hates legal gun ownership. He won't support any law that makes it easier for people to own guns. No rational reason for it. He just hates people being able to own firearms.
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Silly that he would move to the USA with an attitude like that.
 
mrjurrs said:
I don't need to use logic, one reason it could be treated differently is that it would be easier to conceal than a longer barrel. That wouldn't be the reason you couldn't own one, the law would be the reason you couldn't own one. Every law has those spots that are barely legal or illegal.
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Yet that point is mooted when you consider that we have AR pistols with arm braces that is practically a stock and completely legal.
 
Court Jester said:
The bill is about rifles NOT shotguns.
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What is a rifle?


And in terms of rifles, how is handgun not just technically a short rifle?
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Indeed or a carbine ?

Lawyers get rich with arguing definitions

Like the British government could define what food was (off topic I know but there is no sales tax on food in the UK) so the makers of chocolate bars sell their products tax free.


I suppose you'd have to define a rifle as a man portable firearm, with a rifled barrel, designed to be fired with two hands.
 
zsu2357 said:
Rich have you been watching TV again? You know where the sawed off 12ga. blows a 5x5 hole in a cinder block wall at 10 paces.
Like that "obvious criminal use". Know doubt dangerous to people around you shooting it. Hell you'd probably put your out.
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Do you want to proof read your text?

I saw a video that claimed an 18" barrel (normal legal length) shotgun spread at about one inch per yard down range.

I shudder to think what a sawed off shotgun would do in that respect.
 
Rich2018 said:
Do you want to proof read your text?

I saw a video that claimed an 18" barrel (normal legal length) shotgun spread at about one inch per yard down range.I shudder to think what a sawed off shotgun would do in that respect.
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What choke? Pattern spread depends on many more variables other than barrel length. One thing that "sawing off" a shotgun does is remove the choke. However, so would installing a cylinder bore choke in a longer barrel.
 
Rich2018 said:
Do you want to proof read your text?

I saw a video that claimed an 18" barrel (normal legal length) shotgun spread at about one inch per yard down range.

I shudder to think what a sawed off shotgun would do in that respect.
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So... Ten inches at ten yards. Will that do more damage or less to a human?
 


All this talk about super shorty's like its not already a real and legit thing...
 
jimbo said:
In fact short barrel firearms have far less muzzle velocity and therefore less lethal.

I think I remember a .38 Sp out of a 2 inch barrel has about half the velocity as the same round out of a 7.5 inch barrel.
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And more perceived recoil, more blast, etc. The jungle carbine SMLE is an example.
 
VanceMack said:


All this talk about super shorty's like its not already a real and legit thing...
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Different weapon. Don't worry, we'll get around to restricting those too.
 
Maccabee said:
Yet that point is mooted when you consider that we have AR pistols with arm braces that is practically a stock and completely legal.
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No, the point would be that that weapon has restrictions on it. AR pistols will be restricted in time.
 
mrjurrs said:
Different weapon. Don't worry, we'll get around to restricting those too.
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Point being...with weapons like this totally legal, it sounds really silly arguing against a sawed off shotgun.
 
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