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Another Good Guy with a Gun...

Fledermaus said:
Home invasion burglary carries very stiff penalties, and can be punished by up to life imprisonment.

How can Home Invasion carry stiff penalties if it isn't a crime?
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Because the crime is burglary, not home invasion.

If that doesn't answer your "question" I honestly don't know what would.


Something is a crime when there's a law against it.
 
Rich2018 said:
A Home Invasion isn't a crime because there's no statute against it (in Alabama)

Burglary, theft, assault, robbery and rape are crimes because there are statutes against them. Why are you not getting this ?
Click to expand...

Understanding Home Invasion Laws

In California, a burglary is committed when a person enters a vehicle or building with the intent to commit a crime. A home invasion – sometimes referred to as residential burglary – is essentially a burglary of a home that is inhabited. Home invasions are charged as First Degree Burglary in California, under Penal Code 460. California takes charges of home invasion very seriously and applies a greater penalty to those convicted of the crime.
To be convicted on the charge of First Degree Burglary (home invasion) in California, the prosecution must prove:
1.You entered a home or dwelling that was inhabited; and
2.You entered with the specific intent to commit a theft or other crime.

What are the Penalties for Home Invasion?

Home invasion – or First Degree Burglary – is a serious crime in California. If convicted of this felony, a person may face between 2-6 years in prison and fines of up to $10,000. In determining an appropriate sentence, a judge will take certain factors into consideration, such as (1) your prior criminal record, (2) prior home invasion convictions, (3) the seriousness of the crime you intended to commit, and (4) whether the occupants were home at the time of the invasion.

If the prosecution is unable to carry their burden of proof for charges of home invasion you may still face serious consequences if convicted of trespassing or unauthorized entry. Unauthorized entry and trespass are generally misdemeanors, punishable by up to one year in jail and fines of up to $1,000. However, if a trespass is particularly dangerous or violent it may be charged as aggravated trespass. Aggravated trespass can be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony and is punishable by 16 months to 3 years in prison and fines of up to $10,000.
 
Fledermaus said:
Assumption.

Japan has an extremely low firearm rate and suicides are far more per capita.
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So what ? Are you that ignorant you can't understand what is being said ?

No-one is suggesting that guns cause suicides.

But in the USA when someone is suicidal, they generally reach for a gun, which is way more effective than other suicide methods.
 
Rich2018 said:
So what ? Are you that ignorant you can't understand what is being said ?

No-one is suggesting that guns cause suicides.

But in the USA when someone is suicidal, they generally reach for a gun, which is way more effective than other suicide methods.
Click to expand...

Someone is suggesting exactly that... "If there were no guns, less people would die through suicide"
 
Fledermaus said:
...In California, a burglary is committed when a person enters a vehicle or building with the intent to commit a crime...
Click to expand...

So burglary is a crime in California, not home invasion ?

There is a state statute against burglary but not against home invasion.
 
Rich2018 said:
Because the crime is burglary, not home invasion.

If that doesn't answer your "question" I honestly don't know what would.

Something is a crime when there's a law against it.
Click to expand...

Home invasion burglary carries very stiff penalties, and can be punished by up to life imprisonment.


How can Home Invasion carry stiff penalties if it isn't a crime?
 
ataraxia said:
Because when it came down to it, the GOP blocked those too.

The GOP's mental health hypocrisy | Salon.com
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That's a given the Republicans are against better mental health care. How does that explain you and Rich being against it?

ataraxia said:
The real mental health crisis in this country is not about guns. It's about today's GOP and its policies.

The petition below was signed by over 65,000 mental health specialists from around the country in 2017:

"“We, the undersigned mental health professionals, believe in our professional judgment that Donald Trump manifests a serious mental illness that renders him psychologically incapable of competently discharging the duties of President of the United States. And we respectfully request he be removed from office, according to article 4 of the 25th amendment to the Constitution, which states that the president will be replaced if he is ‘unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.’”
"The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump" | Psychology Today
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Yes: Trump and the Trumpians are nuts and anti-mental health care. Again, how does that explain you and Rich being against better mental health care?
 
Fledermaus said:
Assumption.

Japan has an extremely low firearm rate and suicides are far more per capita.
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Nope. Epidemiologists have found numerous direct causative correlations between gun ownership and increasing suicide, as well as homicide rates.

More guns=more homicide Fewer Guns Mean Fewer Gun Homicides
More guns=more suicide https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/

These things don't keep anyone safe. If they did, war zones would be the safest place to live.
 
Rich2018 said:
So burglary is a crime in California, not home invasion ?

There is a state statute against burglary but not against home invasion.
Click to expand...

Please don't dishonestly truncate.

Understanding Home Invasion Laws

In California, a burglary is committed when a person enters a vehicle or building with the intent to commit a crime. A home invasion – sometimes referred to as residential burglary – is essentially a burglary of a home that is inhabited. Home invasions are charged as First Degree Burglary in California, under Penal Code 460. California takes charges of home invasion very seriously and applies a greater penalty to those convicted of the crime.
To be convicted on the charge of First Degree Burglary (home invasion) in California, the prosecution must prove:
1.You entered a home or dwelling that was inhabited; and
2.You entered with the specific intent to commit a theft or other crime.

What are the Penalties for Home Invasion?

Home invasion – or First Degree Burglary – is a serious crime in California. If convicted of this felony, a person may face between 2-6 years in prison and fines of up to $10,000. In determining an appropriate sentence, a judge will take certain factors into consideration, such as (1) your prior criminal record, (2) prior home invasion convictions, (3) the seriousness of the crime you intended to commit, and (4) whether the occupants were home at the time of the invasion.

If the prosecution is unable to carry their burden of proof for charges of home invasion you may still face serious consequences if convicted of trespassing or unauthorized entry. Unauthorized entry and trespass are generally misdemeanors, punishable by up to one year in jail and fines of up to $1,000. However, if a trespass is particularly dangerous or violent it may be charged as aggravated trespass. Aggravated trespass can be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony and is punishable by 16 months to 3 years in prison and fines of up to $10,000.
 
Fledermaus said:
Someone is suggesting exactly that... "If there were no guns, less people would die through suicide"
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Yes that is true....if there were less guns, there'd be less (successful) suicides.

You're either playing stupid or you have a comprehension failure.


Guns don't cause suicides...they make them (when used) far less survivable.


Can someone explain the Fledermaus what it meant here ?
 
Fledermaus said:
Please don't dishonestly truncate.

Understanding Home Invasion Laws

In California, a burglary is committed when a person enters a vehicle or building with the intent to commit a crime. A home invasion – sometimes referred to as residential burglary – is essentially a burglary of a home that is inhabited. Home invasions are charged as First Degree Burglary in California, under Penal Code 460. California takes charges of home invasion very seriously and applies a greater penalty to those convicted of the crime.
To be convicted on the charge of First Degree Burglary (home invasion) in California, the prosecution must prove:
1.You entered a home or dwelling that was inhabited; and
2.You entered with the specific intent to commit a theft or other crime.

What are the Penalties for Home Invasion?

Home invasion – or First Degree Burglary – is a serious crime in California. If convicted of this felony, a person may face between 2-6 years in prison and fines of up to $10,000. In determining an appropriate sentence, a judge will take certain factors into consideration, such as (1) your prior criminal record, (2) prior home invasion convictions, (3) the seriousness of the crime you intended to commit, and (4) whether the occupants were home at the time of the invasion.

If the prosecution is unable to carry their burden of proof for charges of home invasion you may still face serious consequences if convicted of trespassing or unauthorized entry. Unauthorized entry and trespass are generally misdemeanors, punishable by up to one year in jail and fines of up to $1,000. However, if a trespass is particularly dangerous or violent it may be charged as aggravated trespass. Aggravated trespass can be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony and is punishable by 16 months to 3 years in prison and fines of up to $10,000.
Click to expand...

So you're convicted of burglary, not home invasion.


Do you get it now ?
 
Rising Sun said:
That's a given the Republicans are against better mental health care. How does that explain you and Rich being against it?
Click to expand...

I think there is a misunderstanding here. Who said I was against it?

I just don't think it's the only thing. It's like an intersection having lots of accidents. Proposals are made to put up a red light, as well as speed limits. And the GOP is saying we don't need a red light, speed limits should be enough. And then when it comes down to it, they block the speed limit sign too.

It just doesn't make sense. It's like they are purposely TRYING to create a chaotic, lawless, and dangerous society. And then we wonder why Putin supports them so much.
 
ataraxia said:
I think there is a misunderstanding here. Who said I was against it?

I just don't think it's the only thing. It's like an intersection having lots of accidents. Proposals are made to put up a red light, as well as speed limits. And the GOP is saying we don't need a red light, speed limits should be enough. And then when it comes down to it, they block the speed limit sign too.

It just doesn't make sense. It's like they are purposely TRYING to create a chaotic, lawless, and dangerous society. And then we wonder why Putin supports them so much.
Click to expand...

You did by your favoring banning guns over any desire to support mental health care.
 
Fledermaus said:
Home invasion is a crime.

Period.
Click to expand...

No it's note. In many states the crime is burglary as defined by their statues.
They may have other statutes against robbery, theft, assault, trespass etc that are also applicable with the activity you call "Home Invasion"
 
ataraxia said:
So if we agree to do both, can we have a deal?
Click to expand...

Why deprive people of freedom when they've done nothing wrong? There is no "gun problem". There's a suicide problem and there's a gang problem. Factor in domestic violence and you've eliminated most, if not all, "gun deaths".
 
Rising Sun said:
Why deprive people of freedom when they've done nothing wrong? There is no "gun problem". There's a suicide problem and there's a gang problem. Factor in domestic violence and you've eliminated most, if not all, "gun deaths".
Click to expand...

Yeah, if things were different, they would not be the same.
 
Rising Sun said:
Why deprive people of freedom when they've done nothing wrong? There is no "gun problem". There's a suicide problem and there's a gang problem. Factor in domestic violence and you've eliminated most, if not all, "gun deaths".
Click to expand...

So take away guns and take away all gun related deaths (and injuries) in reality
 
Rising Sun said:
Why deprive people of freedom when they've done nothing wrong?
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For the same reason you deprive people of freedom when you catch them driving drunk. You don't wait until they go out and kill people. It's dangerous behavior.

Owning military style assault weapons is not necessary to defend anyone against anything unless they are in a battlefield situation. It's a dangerous tool, and like any dangerous tool, requires careful regulation.

There's a suicide problem and there's a gang problem. Factor in domestic violence and you've eliminated most, if not all, "gun deaths".
Click to expand...

Incorrect. It ranks just at or below cancer as the top cause of pediatric mortality in this country. It's a public health disaster. No other country has this problem. That's too high a price to pay for your "freedom" to carry any crazy thing you want anywhere you want.
 
Rising Sun said:
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
— From Robert Heinlein.
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Then can you imagine how polite a society we would have if nuclear ordnances were on sale to the general public at WalMart?
 
ataraxia said:
Then can you imagine how polite a society we would have if nuclear ordnances were on sale to the general public at WalMart?
Click to expand...

Nuclear ordnance is not a self defense weapon. It's a national defense weapon and thereby the realm of the state. This was clearly delineated by the founders in their designation, "militia". Militia means infantry arms, which are deemed weapons of self defense. The founders drew the line between self defense and national defense in a way that would transcend time - arms of the militia (infantry) are self defense weapons.

It's really quite elegant. We needed to draw a line between weapons of self defense and those of national defense. This was accomplished.

Thus, your reference to nukes is in ignorance of the 2nd and all that it accomplishes.
 
TurtleDude said:
more silly attempts to smear all gun owners because of the stupidity of one. BTW I believe it is illegal to have a loaded rifle in a car. It is in Ohio even if you have a CCW. recent legal changes allow you to have loaded magazines in a bag, but not inserted in the firearm. So someone violated a law before the woman was shot
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Not only that.. they violated common sense.
 
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