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Thread: Another Good Guy with a Gun...

  1. #591
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    Re: Another Good Guy with a Gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickyjo View Post
    ++ First, not all of them are crazy. Second, been there, done that: what you describe was done by Reagan when governor. He closed large institutions with the promise of halfway houses, but never fulfilled that promise. And of course, we need taxes to do that, something Reagan abhorred. Still thing something like that might be useful.
    25% are seriously mentally ill

    45% have shown some mental illness.

    Factor in the drug users and you have covered the majority of the homeless....

    Homeless Mentally Ill Facts and Figures : Mental Illness Policy Org
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    Re: Another Good Guy with a Gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Not really.

    Oh yes... it is despair. Because its not like any your proposals haven't been tried.. and been found not to work. We had an assault weapons ban for 10 years... the science showed it had no effect. We had a high capacity magazine ban for 10 years.. no effect. We have background checks now.. no effect. Heck.. we have mass shooters that kill their mother.. and still their firearms.. and what does your side say we need "BACKGROUND CHECKS"....

    ++ Ten yearsxprobably too short a time to test.

    Cripes.. most of these mass shooters all passed background checks. or got around the check by stealing their firearms.

    Almost all these mass shooters have histories of mental health issues... but you talk mental health with your side.. and what do you hear... "Crazy people buying weapons need to be stopped"..

    Cripes.. how about getting people the treatment they need instead of thinking that a background check is going to stop them??? Holy crap.. who wouldn't be in despair given your sides attitude? your side doesn't care if a person suffering mental health problems commits suicide with something other than a gun. Cuz your only answer is "crazy people shouldn't have firearms"..

    Which frankly as a medical professional really frustrates me. One of the large barriers to getting help for people with mental health problems is the stigma that's put on folks suffering mental health problems... that they are all "dangerous crazies"... well the facts are that the vast majority of people suffering mental health problems are more likely to be a VICTIM of violent crime..rather than be a perpetrator of violent crime.

    And yet your side focuses on the "don't let the crazies have guns"... so the fellow I treat who is having some depression after his wife dies... is afraid to tell his physician about this because he is afraid there will be a sheriff at his door.. demanding to confiscate his grandpas old revolver.

    The key isn't waiting until people become so bad they become a threat.. and then going "well they shouldn't buy a gun".. its getting the diagnosis and treatment before someone even begins to potentially become a danger to themselves and others.

    So yes..your side makes us gun owners that actually CARE about people. and not just those that are harmed with a gun.. but all people.. your side makes us gun owners despair. and anyone else with any common sense.

    IF you a legally allowed to own a weapon? Sure. Why not? Think about this... Before you get through security... (In order to stop you from getting a gun on the plane)...you are crammed together with thousands of potential victims... because the Airport security doesn't want you to get on the plane with one hundred potential victims. Think how stupid that logic is. That somehow.. you are safer. Its called Security Theater... the illusion that somehow you are safer.

    ++ Somehow I’d rather be in a crowd at the airport terminal when someone opens up than be in a plane at 30,000 feet. But you might want to ask your representatives to introduce legislation ending prohibition of arms on planes and elimination of metal detectors.

    Yep. Why not?

    Bingo.

    Exactly... because those that planned on going into a bar and shooting it up.. aren't going to be deterred by a law.. not allowing you to bring your firearms in.
    in
    And frankly..mostly that law was because of restaurants, and other avenues where alcohol was served. So I could not say bring my concealed firearm into a restaurant where a person could buy a beer with their burger.

    ++ So why pass laws prohibiting guns in schools? Murders still happen, so why outlaw them?

    By the way.. in most states its a serious charge to be carrying a firearm and being inebriated. I don't drink.. so whats the problem with me carrying a firearm into a restaurant.

    By the way.. statistically carry concealed folks are more law abiding than the general public and in some studies more law abiding than the police.
    ++ Good to know. I would still rather have bars being gun free. Great bit on The Daily Show after Arizona allowed guns in bars... Bartender in a biker bar in disbelief at his arguments to obtuse reporter Stephen Colbert: “Alcohol starts fights.” Colbert: “Guns end fights.”

    ++ But you probably should take your arguments over to the countries that have some or all of these regulations in place yet strangely have fewer gun deaths. Btw, the Archie Bunker character once suggested that the airlines should issue loaded guns to every person who boarded to ensure maximum safety. Frankly, I’ll trust the flight with the metal detector.

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    Re: Another Good Guy with a Gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fledermaus View Post
    State income tax of 8% on $42,000... And for that you get over regulation, high fuel prices, massive homelessness that the over expenditure doesn't cover. Not to mention the California upper education used to be practically free. Even the JCs are bumping prices. Lower education is failing in many areas. LA School district has a 40% reading and 30% math proficiency. Car registration fees are a joke. If you have to do ANYTHING at the DMV you wait for hours. If you make an appointment you wait for weeks to save those hours. And it has gotten worse with the double whammy of illegal alien drivers licenses and the need for the Real ID (because your licenses can no longer be trusted). Rumblings about killing Prop 13. More taxes on the way. "Road diets" (Closing existing needed lanes to create bike lanes thereby increasing gridlock in cities)

    That is out state taxes "at work".

    That and it is a filibuster proof one party entity from top to city level....
    And yet we love it, keep electing the folks who brought us progress, taxes, services taxes provide, etc.

  4. #594
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    Re: Another Good Guy with a Gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickyjo View Post
    And yet we love it, keep electing the folks who brought us progress, taxes, services taxes provide, etc.
    We love it so much there has been a drain of middle/upper class and industry.

    We love it so much that the state rates at the bottom of favorable places to have a business.

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    Re: Another Good Guy with a Gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by bave View Post
    That's your choice, but I would again point out that a huge number of middle class Californians are voting with their feet. If you don't make $500k/yr in California, you can't raise a family in a reasonable way honestly, at least in large parts of the state. If you can't afford private schools, a $2MM house, then good luck out there.

    Sorry, you have the highest welfare rate and the highest inequality rate, not poverty rate, you are correct there.

    One of the big problems people often miss in comparing states is the growth rates and legacy burden. Most blue states have no growth except for a few pockets carrying the states. What does Cali look like without Silicon Valley? Not great. A huge part of your tax revenue is tied to those silicon valley capital gains. The debt levels in most of these blue states are simply enormous. The next downturn will likely break Rhode Island and Illinois. No one wants to live in most of these places. California has some positives, but again, the middle class making $80k-300k are pouring out.



    Here's the problem, I am assuming you are talking about universal background checks with what "your side proposes". How many of these gun crimes do you think it would stop? The answer, also researched exhaustively, is almost zero. It turns out almost no guns that are being used for crimes are going through the very limited circumstances where a transfer occurs without a background check. More importantly, tons of people get denied access to guns by the checks already. It simply isn't a common occurrence that someone goes to a gunshow or a family friend to acquire a gun when they knowingly cannot. Instead they buy one on the blackmarket or steal one, which is common.



    The SCOTUS has upheld reasonable regulations and limitations. This can be easily seen to restrict weapons in "sensitive areas" such as schools, airports etc. These are also places that tend to have existing armed security. Do you need a gun in a courthouse that has a dozen or so armed cops in it? Do you need a gun in an airport with a hundred armed cops? Probably not and that's why the court is ok with it. Now, do you need a gun in a park? Maybe, there is a valid argument there. Do you need a gun in a bar? Well it depends, most states say no if you are consuming alcohol, again a reasonable action. Can you ban handguns or other commonly held weapons? The court has said no. Can you ban large mags? Probably not at this point. Heller really screwed the anti-gun crowd when it comes to an AWB/mag cap ban when they talked about "firearms in common use".



    You can do a simple internet search for "FBI/ATF research on the effects of the AWB ban". It's a rather exhaustive and detailed report that was widely reviewed and analyzed. It is also regularly cited for its conclusion that the AWB ban (which included a high-cap mag ban) had no measurable impact on gun crime at any level.
    then show us the cite
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    Re: Another Good Guy with a Gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by bave View Post
    That's your choice, but I would again point out that a huge number of middle class Californians are voting with their feet. If you don't make $500k/yr in California, you can't raise a family in a reasonable way honestly, at least in large parts of the state. If you can't afford private schools, a $2MM house, then good luck out there.

    ++ Didn’t know all of my friends were that wealthy. Don’t know how we did it on less than a fifth of what you think is necessary.

    Sorry, you have the highest welfare rate and the highest inequality rate, not poverty rate, you are correct there.

    ++ Big state, lots of labor intensive agriculture, thus lots of poor farmworkers; lots of wealthy, thus lots of house cleaners, nannies, gardeners.

    One of the big problems people often miss in comparing states is the growth rates and legacy burden. Most blue states have no growth except for a few pockets carrying the states. What does Cali look like without Silicon Valley? Not great. A huge part of your tax revenue is tied to those silicon valley capital gains. The debt levels in most of these blue states are simply enormous. The next downturn will likely break Rhode Island and Illinois. No one wants to live in most of these places. California has some positives, but again, the middle class making $80k-300k are pouring out.

    ++ My wife and I made towards the lower end of that as do friends and neighbors in our relatively high-priced neighborhoods and did ok. Some moving out, others in, much like everywhere. The housing market is driving much of the problem, true, as we probably would have trouble buying our house now, but Silicon Valley is just *this* couple of generations’ boom. I heard about the unaffordability of housing here back when the only computer was Univac and filled a room. It’s all happened before since logging, furs, gold, etc. The neighborhoods have been ruined by successive waves of newcomers, each grumbling about the new arrivals that follow them. When I first came here in the early 60’s I learned the phrase “he doesn’t have a Chinaman’s chance,” a phrase still in use, of people admitting to the poverty of and bigotry against Chinese. Now that phrase is invalid, long since gone, replaced by people grumbling about the latest wave of Chinese overachievers in our universities, buying property, etc., reminiscent of the bigotry against Jews I saw in New York back in the day.

    This too shall pass... The more things change... Probably a dozen more corny old phrases apply.



    Here's the problem, I am assuming you are talking about universal background checks with what "your side proposes". How many of these gun crimes do you think it would stop? The answer, also researched exhaustively, is almost zero. It turns out almost no guns that are being used for crimes are going through the very limited circumstances where a transfer occurs without a background check. More importantly, tons of people get denied access to guns by the checks already. It simply isn't a common occurrence that someone goes to a gunshow or a family friend to acquire a gun when they knowingly cannot. Instead they buy one on the blackmarket or steal one, which is common.



    The SCOTUS has upheld reasonable regulations and limitations. This can be easily seen to restrict weapons in "sensitive areas" such as schools, airports etc. These are also places that tend to have existing armed security. Do you need a gun in a courthouse that has a dozen or so armed cops in it? Do you need a gun in an airport with a hundred armed cops? Probably not and that's why the court is ok with it. Now, do you need a gun in a park? Maybe, there is a valid argument there. Do you need a gun in a bar? Well it depends, most states say no if you are consuming alcohol, again a reasonable action. Can you ban handguns or other commonly held weapons? The court has said no. Can you ban large mags? Probably not at this point. Heller really screwed the anti-gun crowd when it comes to an AWB/mag cap ban when they talked about "firearms in common use".

    You can do a simple internet search for "FBI/ATF research on the effects of the AWB ban". It's a rather exhaustive and detailed report that was widely reviewed and analyzed. It is also regularly cited for its conclusion that the AWB ban (which included a high-cap mag ban) had no measurable impact on gun crime at any level.
    ++ Such things seem to exist and kill rates are lower in societies that resemble ours. You are a good man, keep your gun. I want to try to make it harder for bad men to get guns. I don’t buy the Hobbesian view that we all are in a fight with one another.

    ++ But anyway the fight from my side is lost. French eat snails; Americans eat guns. I don’t get either practice. Btw, countering that is history: the most famous gunfight in our history, the OK Corral, was about gun control. People of Tombstone were smarter than the NRA.

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