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Thread: NRA group sees backlash over gun auctions in schools

  1. #41
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    Re: NRA group sees backlash over gun auctions in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by JacksinPA View Post
    GREENVILLE, Ky. — Parents and students trickled into the Muhlenberg County High School gym on a hot Saturday night as the sounds of cheers and a referee’s whistle carried from an athletic field nearby. Inside the “Home of the Mustangs,” Friends of NRA was raffling off guns: semi-automatic rifles and handguns, guns with high-capacity magazines and pump-action shotguns.

    In the past two years, the NRA Foundation’s fundraising program had displayed actual guns along the wooden bleachers in the gym. This time organizers showed only pictures, bowing to objections from parents who pointed to a shooting at another western Kentucky high school last year that left two students dead and more than a dozen wounded.
    ==================================================
    What's wrong with this picture? The NRA (via its 'Foundation') is actively merchandising handguns, semiautomatic long guns, high-capacity magazines & pump-action shotguns in public schools & other locations. I thought they existed to protect our 2nd A. rights. Instead they seem to be actively promoting gun ownership across the country.
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  2. #42
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    Re: NRA group sees backlash over gun auctions in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    hit someone in the chest with a 22Mag (and he best be trying to kill you to justify the shooting), the target might well be able to stab you to death and certainly shoot you. Hit him in the chest at 7 yards or in (95 % of defensive shootings take place within 7 yards) with a load of federal tactical (2 3/4 dram powder load-same as a skeet or quail load) #4 buck and the chances of the mope shooting you or stabbing you is less than about 2% (assume he isn't wearing body armor)
    The Marine Corps pistol qualifications also used 7 meters for quick reaction drills. There is also a 15 meter sustained fire, requiring a magazine change, and a 25 meter slow fire. There are a total of 400 possible points in 40 shots, and it requires a minimum score of 290 to qualify as Marksman. A score between 330 and 344 qualifies them as Sharpshooter, and a score above 344 qualifies them as an Expert marksman with a pistol.

    FYI, the above were the qualifications for the M1911 .45 ACP. I left the Marine Corps before they deployed the Beretta 92F in 1981, so I don't know if they changed their qualification as a result.

  3. #43
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    Re: NRA group sees backlash over gun auctions in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    The Marine Corps pistol qualifications also used 7 meters for quick reaction drills. There is also a 15 meter sustained fire, requiring a magazine change, and a 25 meter slow fire. There are a total of 400 possible points in 40 shots, and it requires a minimum score of 290 to qualify as Marksman. A score between 330 and 344 qualifies them as Sharpshooter, and a score above 344 qualifies them as an Expert marksman with a pistol.

    FYI, the above were the qualifications for the M1911 .45 ACP. I left the Marine Corps before they deployed the Beretta 92F in 1981, so I don't know if they changed their qualification as a result.
    The US Marshal's Service qualification course is the one I used when a DOJ attorney had to be certified to carry



    its been several years since I have been involved in this course and I don't recall the entire course but its similar to the FBIs which is this
    FBI Qualification Course of Fire

    Stage 1

    Distance- 3 Yards
    6 Total Rounds for Stage
    Sequence- A. Draw & Fire 3 Shots Strong-Hand Only in 3 Seconds;
    B. Repeat: Draw & Fire 3 Shots Strong-Hand Only in 3 Seconds
    Total Stage Time Limit: 6 Seconds
    Stage 2

    Distance- 3 Yards
    6 Total Rounds for Stage
    Sequence- A. Draw & Fire 3 Shots Strong-Hand Only; then
    B.Transition to Support-Hand Only & Fire 3 Shots.
    Total Stage Time Limit: 8 Seconds
    Stage 3

    Distance- 5 Yards
    12 Total Rounds for Stage
    Sequence- A. Draw & Fire 3 Shots Using Both Hands in 3 Seconds;
    B. Repeat 3 More Times (4 Total Times): Draw & Fire 3 Shots Using Both Hands
    Total Stage Time Limit: 12 Seconds
    Stage 4

    Distance- 7 Yards
    8 Total Rounds for Stage
    Sequence- A. Draw & Fire 4 Shots Using Both Hands in 4 Seconds;
    B. Repeat: Draw & Fire 4 Shots Using Both Hands in 4 Seconds
    Total Stage Time Limit: 8 Seconds
    Stage 5

    Distance- 7 Yards
    8 Total Rounds for Stage
    Sequence- A. Draw & Fire 4 Shots Using Both Hands;
    B. Perform Emergency Reload (Mag Falls to Ground);
    C. Fire 4 More Shots Using Both Hands
    Total Stage Time Limit: 8 Seconds
    Stage 6

    Distance- 15 Yards
    6 Total Rounds
    Sequence- A. Draw & Fire 3 Shots Using Both Hands;
    B. Repeat: Draw & Fire 3 Shots Using Both Hands
    Total Stage Time Limit: 12 Seconds
    Stage 7

    Distance- 15 Yards
    4 Total Rounds
    Sequence- Draw & Fire 4 Shots Using Both Hands
    Total Stage Time Limit- 8 Seconds
    Stage 8

    Distance- 25 Yards
    10 Total Rounds; Fire from Behind Cover
    Sequence- A. Step Forward to 25 Yard Line;
    B. Draw & Fire 2 Shots Standing Behind Cover Using Both Hands;
    C. Transition to Kneeling Behind Cover and Using Both Hands Fire 3 More Rounds;
    D. Repeat Stage for 2 Total Times
    Total Stage Time Limit- 15 Seconds for 5 Shots (x2)

    This seems to be pretty much the same thing the Marshal's service was using. This is not an easy course for most LEO. however, if you have a background in IDPA or USPSA, you will pass it fairly easily. I shot it with several firearms including stuff most of the LEOs carried

    Glock 17 and 19
    Sig 226 and 229
    SW M&P
    CZ 75
    and a SW revolver.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only "sport" that most gun owners participate in is suicide or murder.

  4. #44
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    Re: NRA group sees backlash over gun auctions in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    The onion?
    It has many layers
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only "sport" that most gun owners participate in is suicide or murder.

  5. #45
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    Re: NRA group sees backlash over gun auctions in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    mafia cleaners favored 22 rimfire for hits
    several reasons

    low noise-especially with suppressed pistols
    tracing hollow point 22 rounds with the soft lead bullets is much tougher than jacketed rounds out of a 9mm or a 5

    The shots were usually very close-back of the head stuff

    I saw a tape of a mob hit in NJ courtesy of the FBI who had been surveilling a "rat". the victim was walking down a street in Newark IIRC, the street was somewhat crowded. The cleaner was right behind him with a 22 High standard semi auto pistol with a suppressor attached, hidden under a folded newspaper. As the victim turned the corner on a street block, the hitter kept going straight but raised his gun (hidden by the corner of the building) and shot the victim twice in the back of the head and crossed the street. a block down, he dumbed the newspaper with the pistol into a garbage can. People right behind the hitter didn't see it
    Very interesting story. An ice pick can be deadly at short range and "well placed". However, in the home invasion scenario I wouldn't want to trust my life to a "well placed' .22 shot. And I'm not a mafia cleaner. I may not be all that calm and collected. There is no "perfect" home defense round, but I think a 9mm or 40SW comes close. However, both of those are high velocity rounds, which would probably penetrate sheetrock walls, which is a consideration. But on the other hand you do need a minimum of stopping power. Maybe a 45ACP going around 850FPS?

    People talk a lot about 12 gauge for home defense. In IDPA shooting (defensive handgun, Limited class) I've shot both handguns and shotguns in a closed, poorly lit room, simulating a home. Handguns aren't like you see on TV, where they can blast away and still talk to each other; in reality you are blind for a number of seconds from muzzle flash, and can't hear anything. Shotguns are ten times worse. You can't see or hear for quite a while.

    THAT is why I favor a suppressor on the front of whatever gun you choose for home defense. It greatly reduces both flash and noise. My caliber is 45ACP because it can easily be loaded subsonic. Suppressors aren't all that effective with high velocity rounds. They are legal now and I have them on both of my home defense handguns.

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    Re: NRA group sees backlash over gun auctions in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    It is illegal to use a rim-fire round on a large game animal in Alaska (with one very rare exception). You certainly wouldn't want to use one for self-defense, unless you were suicidal. A .22 caliber round is definitely NOT using the right tool for the job if that job is self-defense. You are trying to make due with a ball-peen hammer when only a sledge-hammer will work.
    When I was young and stupid some pals and I got into a scuffle with another group running the streets. We were all keyed up, and shots were fired. The "meeting" immediately broke up. One of the guys I was with took a .22 round in the rib cage and didn't even know he was shot until he saw the blood some time later when we got back to the house. Don't bet your life on a .22 doing the job.

  7. #47
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    Re: NRA group sees backlash over gun auctions in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    It has many layers
    Like a cake.

    A cake can have layers.

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