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Constitutional carry now in effect in Oklahoma.

jamesrage

jamesrage

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Yikes. I'm pro second amendment, but carrying a firearm in public without training of any kind is just asking for trouble. I foresee this as ultimately doing more harm to 2nd amendment rights in OK than good. The 2nd amendment is only as strong as it's dumbest adherent.
 
lwf said:
Yikes. I'm pro second amendment, but carrying a firearm in public without training of any kind is just asking for trouble.
Click to expand...

You got it exactly backwards. Allowing anyone and everyone to carry makes life extremely difficult for the common criminal. Criminals are rational, they weigh costs and benefits just like everyone else. Raising the cost of crime is a good thing. It's not "asking for trouble", it's creating a safer society.
 
Society is safer when criminals don't know who's armed

-VySky
 
aociswundumho said:
You got it exactly backwards. Allowing anyone and everyone to carry makes life extremely difficult for the common criminal. Criminals are rational, they weigh costs and benefits just like everyone else. Raising the cost of crime is a good thing. It's not "asking for trouble", it's creating a safer society.
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Yes it is absolutely asking for trouble, because it will only take a few accidental shootings, or road rage incidents, for the hammer to come back down hard on second amendment rights. Crimes prevented by armed citizens are immaterial to those who want to abolish the second amendment. A rise in crimes committed by armed citizens are the death of gun rights. At least a permit system weeds out those who can't be trusted to carry.
 
lwf said:
Yikes. I'm pro second amendment, but carrying a firearm in public without training of any kind is just asking for trouble. I foresee this as ultimately doing more harm to 2nd amendment rights in OK than good. The 2nd amendment is only as strong as it's dumbest adherent.
Click to expand...
No doubt there will be some like that. But I think the big majority will know what they are doing rather than just arming themselves because they can.
 
lwf said:
Yes it is absolutely asking for trouble, because it will only take a few accidental shootings, or road rage incidents, for the hammer to come back down hard on second amendment rights. Crimes prevented by armed citizens are immaterial to those who want to abolish the second amendment. A rise in crimes committed by armed citizens are the death of gun rights. At least a permit system weeds out those who can't be trusted to carry.
Click to expand...
Has all this doom and gloom come too pass in any other Constitutional carry state? Guess not.
 
lwf said:
Yikes. I'm pro second amendment, but carrying a firearm in public without training of any kind is just asking for trouble. I foresee this as ultimately doing more harm to 2nd amendment rights in OK than good. The 2nd amendment is only as strong as it's dumbest adherent.
Click to expand...

That has some merit. People who pack concealed should be trained. The problem is-anti gun activists want harassment not training. My son got his CCW at 21. Every month I give him a case of 9mm. I put him on my membership at the local indoor range and I pay his dues at the other gun club where we shoot steel. A couple times a month, I take him to the range and he trains seriously with me. He also has the benefit of legal advice not only from a retired prosecutor, but also someone who had to shoot someone years ago, and knows what to do in that environment.
 
zsu2357 said:
Has all this doom and gloom come too pass in any other Constitutional carry state? Guess not.
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I think his point is not one I'd dismiss out of hand. My position has always been, the second amendment allows open carry. States do not violate the second amendment with SHALL Issue concealed carry laws that require some objective test of competency.
 
lwf said:
Yikes. I'm pro second amendment, but carrying a firearm in public without training of any kind is just asking for trouble. I foresee this as ultimately doing more harm to 2nd amendment rights in OK than good. The 2nd amendment is only as strong as it's dumbest adherent.
Click to expand...

Have the other 15 states with constitutional carry had trouble? I know that anytime a state enacts a law that reaffirms the 2nd amendment all the anti-2nd amendment trash come out of the woodwork to make claims its going to be the wild west and other doom and gloom. And as far as I know their doom and gloom has never happened.
 
Great news!

Hopefully, the bad guys will think twice before they commit the carnage that exists in so many blue states.
 
jamesrage said:
Have the other 15 states with constitutional carry had trouble? I know that anytime a state enacts a law that reaffirms the 2nd amendment all the anti-2nd amendment trash come out of the woodwork to make claims its going to be the wild west and other doom and gloom. And as far as I know their doom and gloom has never happened.
Click to expand...

People tend to scream that blood will run in the streets anytime restrictions are removed from the Second Amendment, yet the states that already have constitutional carry still see a vastly lower murder rate that the single city of Chicago with its stringent gun control.

Chicago with a population of 2.7 million still surpasses entire states like Arkansas with a population of over 3 million, and Kansas with 2.9 million,.....yet Chicago had 561 murders...more than both states combined....and was not far behind the state of Missouri which has a population nearly twice that of Chicago.

I think we will always hear about how Armageddon will ensue once we allow citizens to exercise thier 2A rights...….I heard the same screed when Minnesota went to "shall issue" permits several years ago....nope.

That prediction went the way of Y2K, 2012 Mayan calendar end of the world, and the Nibiru cataclysm.
 
zsu2357 said:
No doubt there will be some like that. But I think the big majority will know what they are doing rather than just arming themselves because they can.
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Absolutely agree. But it only takes one or two dip****s to spoil it for everyone.
 
zsu2357 said:
Has all this doom and gloom come too pass in any other Constitutional carry state? Guess not.
Click to expand...

What other states allow concealed carry without a license?
 
TurtleDude said:
That has some merit. People who pack concealed should be trained. The problem is-anti gun activists want harassment not training. My son got his CCW at 21. Every month I give him a case of 9mm. I put him on my membership at the local indoor range and I pay his dues at the other gun club where we shoot steel. A couple times a month, I take him to the range and he trains seriously with me. He also has the benefit of legal advice not only from a retired prosecutor, but also someone who had to shoot someone years ago, and knows what to do in that environment.
Click to expand...

If only every gun owner were as responsible. I suppose I'm leery about constitutional carry simply because I know that the second amendment is only as strong as the skittish, statistically-challenged masses who see terrifying news stories about mass shootings accross the U.S. and take this to mean that they are likely to be shot by their neighbor every time they leave their house or send their child to school. These are the people who see strict gun control working in places like Europe and Australia and want to bring it to the U.S.
 
lwf said:
Yikes. I'm pro second amendment, but carrying a firearm in public without training of any kind is just asking for trouble. I foresee this as ultimately doing more harm to 2nd amendment rights in OK than good. The 2nd amendment is only as strong as it's dumbest adherent.
Click to expand...

OK is something like the 15th or 20th state that has Constitutional Carry. We aren't seeing gigantic upticks of homicide and/or accidental shootings in those states.
 
TurtleDude said:
That has some merit. People who pack concealed should be trained. The problem is-anti gun activists want harassment not training. My son got his CCW at 21. Every month I give him a case of 9mm. I put him on my membership at the local indoor range and I pay his dues at the other gun club where we shoot steel. A couple times a month, I take him to the range and he trains seriously with me. He also has the benefit of legal advice not only from a retired prosecutor, but also someone who had to shoot someone years ago, and knows what to do in that environment.
Click to expand...

I've found that most people who carry regularly DO get training. They tend to WANT training as they recognize the responsibility that goes along with the capability. That doesn't mean there are no idiots. There certainly are but I see less and less of them all the time.

We're coming up on 10 years as a Constitutional Carry state here and there have been pretty much no ill effects.
 
Lutherf said:
I've found that most people who carry regularly DO get training. They tend to WANT training as they recognize the responsibility that goes along with the capability. That doesn't mean there are no idiots. There certainly are but I see less and less of them all the time.

We're coming up on 10 years as a Constitutional Carry state here and there have been pretty much no ill effects.
Click to expand...

For the vast majority I agree.
 
jamesrage said:
Have the other 15 states with constitutional carry had trouble? I know that anytime a state enacts a law that reaffirms the 2nd amendment all the anti-2nd amendment trash come out of the woodwork to make claims its going to be the wild west and other doom and gloom. And as far as I know their doom and gloom has never happened.
Click to expand...

I think it's terrible news for second amendment supporters. This is an example of over-correction. I'm not suggesting that the gunfight at the O.K. Corral is going to break out wherever there is unlicensed concealed carry. But the second amendment is fragile, and the country is drifting steadily to the left. One of the agendas of the left (one of the few I disagree with) is stricter gun control. "Common sense" gun laws are a favorite tactic of the anti-second amendment folks, because they tend to be hard to argue with. Locking up a firearm when a small child in in the house is common sense. Knowing how to safely handle a firearm before playing with it is common sense. Carrying a concealed firearm without any training defies common sense. Most won't do this. Of those that do, most won't hurt anyone. But the fact of the matter is that even one untrained yokel who accidentally shoots and kills someone on the bus because he is carrying his firearm in an unsafe manner can too easily start an avalanche of anti-gun hysteria that will be difficult to stop with the decline of the NRA and the progressive direction of the country.
 
lwf said:
Yikes. I'm pro second amendment, but carrying a firearm in public without training of any kind is just asking for trouble. I foresee this as ultimately doing more harm to 2nd amendment rights in OK than good. The 2nd amendment is only as strong as it's dumbest adherent.
Click to expand...

Yikes. I'm pro second amendment, but carrying a firearm in public without training of any kind is just asking for trouble
Click to expand...

Yeah, That's what the left said before my state of Idaho did constitutional carry

Then... nothing happened
 
lwf said:
Yes it is absolutely asking for trouble, because it will only take a few accidental shootings, or road rage incidents, for the hammer to come back down hard on second amendment rights. Crimes prevented by armed citizens are immaterial to those who want to abolish the second amendment. A rise in crimes committed by armed citizens are the death of gun rights. At least a permit system weeds out those who can't be trusted to carry.
Click to expand...
Yes it is absolutely asking for trouble, because it will only take a few accidental shootings
Click to expand...

Kinda like in Vermont since they have had Constitutional carry going all.... the way back to WWI?

But the only thing I hear coming from Vermont is Maple Syrup and Bernie Sanders(LOL)
 
Lutherf said:
OK is something like the 15th or 20th state that has Constitutional Carry. We aren't seeing gigantic upticks of homicide and/or accidental shootings in those states.
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I'm not worried about an uptick in homicides. I'm worried about that one untrained fool who accidentally discharges his new semi-auto in a shopping center and takes out a toddler. I'm worried about the groundswell of fear that will sweep the nation once it becomes clear that he was taking advantage of constitutional carry and had no formal training on how to handle firearms. Conservatives are pushing their luck by reducing the amount of gun control in this country. What we need is a compromise between conservatives and liberals: a balance of common sense gun laws that allow responsible, law-abiding adults of sound mind to exercise their right to bear arms. Removing the requirement of responsibility is giving ammo to the anti-second amendment folks to fight to increase restrictions. Liberals are primed to retake control of the government sooner or later. Constitutional carry could be the straw that broke the camel's back when it comes to stricter gun control.
 
Lutherf said:
OK is something like the 15th or 20th state that has Constitutional Carry. We aren't seeing gigantic upticks of homicide and/or accidental shootings in those states.
Click to expand...



Contradicting what you say, gun deaths have gone up nationwide:

US gun deaths are at their highest rate in 40 years | World Economic Forum

While going down in states with stronger gun law:

States with strict gun laws have fewer firearms deaths. Here's how your state stacks up

And up in states with weaker gun law:

http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/gun-deaths-by-state/

So often, those who want to liberalize gun law post claims w/o any evidence to back up what they say. As in this case. Oh, wait. Maybe this claim I’ve refuting rests on the term “gigantic”. As in the claim “We aren't seeing GIGANTIC upticks of homicide and/or accidental shootings in those states.” Got me there. Gun death rates are going up in those states I evidenced, but not necessarily by gigantic upticks. Cute.
 
as someone who grew up with firearms, i understand that encouraging untrained idiots to pack heat is like telling ten year olds that it's cool to take the Suburban for a spin on I-44. of course, i also know that this is the gun control subforum, and it's all or nothing here.
 
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