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Constitutional carry now in effect in Oklahoma.

Kinda like in Vermont since they have had Constitutional carry going all.... the way back to WWI?

But the only thing I hear coming from Vermont is Maple Syrup and Bernie Sanders(LOL)

For now. And I hope that lasts. But I fear the backlash if something were to happen. "Common sense gun laws" tend to get widespread political support when liberals are in control, and do you trust them to stop with permit carry if there is fresh news of an accidental shooting of a child involving an untrained person carrying a firearm?
 
For now. And I hope that lasts. But I fear the backlash if something were to happen. "Common sense gun laws" tend to get widespread political support when liberals are in control, and do you trust them to stop with permit carry if there is fresh news of an accidental shooting of a child involving an untrained person carrying a firearm?

For now. And I hope that lasts.

Going back all the way to WWI doesn't convince you? About a 100 years ago?

Man, what's a guy got to do around here?
 
as someone who grew up with firearms, i understand that encouraging untrained idiots to pack heat is like telling ten year olds that it's cool to take the Suburban for a spin on I-44. of course, i also know that this is the gun control subforum, and it's all or nothing here.

Gun safety is one google away for anyone that chooses it

Even When I took my concealed carry class(Before constitutional carry), we didn't have a lot of gun safety?

No accidents yet
 
I'm not worried about an uptick in homicides. I'm worried about that one untrained fool who accidentally discharges his new semi-auto in a shopping center and takes out a toddler. I'm worried about the groundswell of fear that will sweep the nation once it becomes clear that he was taking advantage of constitutional carry and had no formal training on how to handle firearms. Conservatives are pushing their luck by reducing the amount of gun control in this country. What we need is a compromise between conservatives and liberals: a balance of common sense gun laws that allow responsible, law-abiding adults of sound mind to exercise their right to bear arms. Removing the requirement of responsibility is giving ammo to the anti-second amendment folks to fight to increase restrictions. Liberals are primed to retake control of the government sooner or later. Constitutional carry could be the straw that broke the camel's back when it comes to stricter gun control.

Like I said, 10 years on in AZ and we HAVE NOT seen that kind of thing happen. We have seen a case where someone carrying saved a cop who was getting beaten.
 
Like I said, 10 years on in AZ and we HAVE NOT seen that kind of thing happen. We have seen a case where someone carrying saved a cop who was getting beaten.

Going back all the way to WWI doesn't convince you? About a 100 years ago?

Man, what's a guy got to do around here?

I would argue that you are underestimating the power of the MSM to fan the flames of gun hysteria at your own peril.
 
I would argue that you are underestimating the power of the MSM to fan the flames of gun hysteria at your own peril.

And you think that media fed hysteria is a good thing?
 
Yikes. I'm pro second amendment, but carrying a firearm in public without training of any kind is just asking for trouble. I foresee this as ultimately doing more harm to 2nd amendment rights in OK than good. The 2nd amendment is only as strong as it's dumbest adherent.

That's what people said when 80% of states went to shall issue permitting, and then again more than a dozen other states went constitutional carry over the past 10 years. So far it hasn't panned out.
 
I think it's terrible news for second amendment supporters. This is an example of over-correction.
A right implies you don't need the government's permission to exercise it. I don't need the government's permission to go to church, plead the 5th, not house troops in my house, to protest(before you claim you need a permit that permit is to use the space, not to protest), be a member of the press and so on.A permit is permission from the government.

But the second amendment is fragile,

If you live in New York, California or any other anti-2nd amendment state then the 2nd amendment exists in name only because its been turned into a state granted privilege. If you live a pro-2nd amendment state then your state is safe and you have to keep an eye out for anti-2nd amedment trast at the federal level.
One of the agendas of the left (one of the few I disagree with) is stricter gun control.
If you mean banning semiautomatic firearms under the guise of an assault weapons ban and banning ten to thirty round standard capacity magazines under the guise of a high capacity magazine ban then you are right and turning the 2nd amendment into a state granted privilege that only a select few get then you are correct.



"Common sense" gun laws are a favorite tactic of the anti-second amendment folks, because they tend to be hard to argue with.

They are not hard to argue with because they are not common sense. "common sense with comming out of the mouths of anti-2nd amendment trash is code for lets ban semiautomatic firearms and enact laws that will make future confiscations easier like registrations, permits/licenses and etc.

Locking up a firearm when a small child in in the house is common sense. Knowing how to safely handle a firearm before playing with it is common sense.

Then mandate firearm safety classes for k-12 education. We tell kids don't do drugs so you don't end up a piece of **** drug addicted loser who gets ass rapped by big bubba in prison. We tell kids don't talk to strangers do that Chester the child molester doesn't get them. Well tell kid to look both ways before crossing the street so they don't become street pizza. We tell kids not to run with scissors because they can stab themselves or others.I even seen a PSA once telling girls not to send nude pictures to their boyfriend because he might share them with the whole school and you'll be slut shamed. You would think in a country with nearly four hundred million firearms in the hands of civilians and that number growing higher each year( especially when anti-2nd amendment trash are calling for bans) that firearm safety would be a must in our schools.
Carrying a concealed firearm without any training defies common sense. Most won't do this. Of those that do, most won't hurt anyone. But the fact of the matter is that even one untrained yokel who accidentally shoots and kills someone on the bus because he is carrying his firearm in an unsafe manner can too easily start an avalanche of anti-gun hysteria

Anti-2nd amendment trash don't give a rats ass about single deaths. Those types of deaths are not easy to exploit for firearm bans as mass shootings are in their minds.

that will be difficult to stop with the decline of the NRA and the progressive direction of the country.

1.You think the NRA is the only pro-2nd amendment group out there? There is Gun Owners of America and various other pro-2nd amendment groups out there will take the NRA's place if the NRA ever falls.

2.If the NRA was powerful as anti-2nd amendment trash would have you believe then the 2nd amendment wouldn't be a state granted privilege in New York, California and other anti-2nd amendment states. If the NRA was as powerful as anti-2nd amendment trash would have you believe then you would be able to walk into any gun store in the entire US and buy any gun you want without needing a permit.
 
Yikes. I'm pro second amendment, but carrying a firearm in public without training of any kind is just asking for trouble. I foresee this as ultimately doing more harm to 2nd amendment rights in OK than good. The 2nd amendment is only as strong as it's dumbest adherent.

It is? So why does this trouble not manifest in the many open carry States?


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Contradicting what you say, gun deaths have gone up nationwide:

US gun deaths are at their highest rate in 40 years | World Economic Forum

While going down in states with stronger gun law:

States with strict gun laws have fewer firearms deaths. Here's how your state stacks up

And up in states with weaker gun law:

http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/gun-deaths-by-state/

So often, those who want to liberalize gun law post claims w/o any evidence to back up what they say. As in this case. Oh, wait. Maybe this claim I’ve refuting rests on the term “gigantic”. As in the claim “We aren't seeing GIGANTIC upticks of homicide and/or accidental shootings in those states.” Got me there. Gun death rates are going up in those states I evidenced, but not necessarily by gigantic upticks. Cute.

When they say "actual gun deaths" do they mean actual number of homicides and death from accidental shootings, not suicides or rates ? I am not asking about the firearm homicide rate because a tiny populated state like Alaska in 2017 had 78 homicides but a homicide rate of 10.6 while California had 2,022 homicides but a homicide rate of 5.1. I am asking about actual number of homicide and accidental deaths commited with the use of a firearm. I know how anti-2nd amendment trash love to talk about how Illinois has a lower homicide rate than say Alaska as though somehow the roughest part in an Alaskan city is somehow more dangerous than the roughest part in an Illinois city.

I don't give a rats ass about suicide seeing how stricter gun laws can't stop someone from committing suicide because a couple dozen or so other countries with way stricter gun laws than the US proves that. I know some anti-2nd amendment trash poster once posted a link trying to claim stricter gun laws lowered suicides even though him and the study he posted couldn't prove how it stopped someone from getting a rope, jumping off a building or some other means of committing suicide.
 
When they say "actual gun deaths" do they mean actual number of homicides and death from accidental shootings, not suicides or rates ? I am not asking about the firearm homicide rate because a tiny populated state like Alaska in 2017 had 78 homicides but a homicide rate of 10.6 while California had 2,022 homicides but a homicide rate of 5.1. I am asking about actual number of homicide and accidental deaths commited with the use of a firearm. I know how anti-2nd amendment trash love to talk about how Illinois has a lower homicide rate than say Alaska as though somehow the roughest part in an Alaskan city is somehow more dangerous than the roughest part in an Illinois city.

I don't give a rats ass about suicide seeing how stricter gun laws can't stop someone from committing suicide because a couple dozen or so other countries with way stricter gun laws than the US proves that. I know some anti-2nd amendment trash poster once posted a link trying to claim stricter gun laws lowered suicides even though him and the study he posted couldn't prove how it stopped someone from getting a rope, jumping off a building or some other means of committing suicide.

How many people actually think that suicide prevention is what motivates the hard core leftist gun control advocates?
 
OK is something like the 15th or 20th state that has Constitutional Carry. We aren't seeing gigantic upticks of homicide and/or accidental shootings in those states.
I think OK. is the 16th or 17th , some with varying degrees.
 
You got it exactly backwards. Allowing anyone and everyone to carry makes life extremely difficult for the common criminal. Criminals are rational, they weigh costs and benefits just like everyone else. Raising the cost of crime is a good thing. It's not "asking for trouble", it's creating a safer society.

Until "kill everybody in the room" becomes the tactic of criminals.
 
What other states allow concealed carry without a license?


Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Idaho (residents only)
Kansas
Kentucky
Maine
Mississippi
Missouri
New Hampshire
North Dakota (residents only; concealed carry only)
Oklahoma
South Dakota
Vermont
West Virginia
Wyoming (residents only)

A few other states have similar pending legislation.
 
Until "kill everybody in the room" becomes the tactic of criminals.

if that is the case, it is better if many in the room are armed-rather than only the criminal
 
Well, there's another state about to see a spike in gun violence.

years ago, when concealed carry licenses were not available in most states, there was a movement to change that. And as state after state debated the issue, people like you howled that BLOOD WOULD RUN IN THE STREETS. Now at first, it was merely a prediction. But as state after state allowed shall issue permits to be available, the predictions were erroneous. By the time my state adopted shall issue in 2004, the claims of the anti gun movement were outright lies based on at least a dozen years of evidence. So I expect the same thing will happen here. You will keep making these claims long after the evidence shows otherwise.
 
years ago, when concealed carry licenses were not available in most states, there was a movement to change that. And as state after state debated the issue, people like you howled that BLOOD WOULD RUN IN THE STREETS. Now at first, it was merely a prediction. But as state after state allowed shall issue permits to be available, the predictions were erroneous. By the time my state adopted shall issue in 2004, the claims of the anti gun movement were outright lies based on at least a dozen years of evidence. So I expect the same thing will happen here. You will keep making these claims long after the evidence shows otherwise.
Became shall issue in 2004? Something I never thought about. Or. 1989. (D) Gov. with dem controlled house and senate. Guess things were way different then.
 
Missouri became a "shall carry" state and its gun violence spiked. Read the article.

you miss the point. You didn't understand the study
 
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