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Republicans aren't wrong about 'People with Metnal health Issues'

Rich2018 said:
Because the majority of mass shooters were "honest, law abiding citizens" (like Stephen Paddock) until the day they decided not to be...and use their guns to kill and maim as many people as they can.
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sorry, we aren't going to give up our guns so you can feel better. And since we both know that you all cannot forcibly take them away, the mental masturbation over a gun ban is a waste of time
 
RF667799 said:
It might not be terribly convenient to live without a car, but it is a fact that many people do so....
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I assume you mean inconvenient and yes I suppose you could walk or ride a bicycle but your personal travel would be highly restricted


...my mother doesn't have a car and she's still kicking....
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And probably always had a car owner to rely on for transport...or confined her travels to walking distance and her load to what she could physically carry


...you're just equivocating between definitions of necessity.
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I would use the word "necessity" to afford one to live a full life. Have a job, go out etc
If you want to live in a cave, I guess some warmth and bread and water enables you to survive.


You can survive in a prison cell and never need a gun.


I guess we have different measures of "living".
 
Rich2018 said:
I assume you mean inconvenient and yes I suppose you could walk or ride a bicycle but your personal travel would be highly restricted




And probably always had a car owner to rely on for transport...or confined her travels to walking distance and her load to what she could physically carry





I would use the word "necessity" to afford one to live a full life. Have a job, go out etc
If you want to live in a cave, I guess some warmth and bread and water enables you to survive.


You can survive in a prison cell and never need a gun.


I guess we have different measures of "living".
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When someone is so adamant about trying to convince people who find his arguments nonsensical, that we should give up our freedoms, we have to ask a question: what actual good will come from trying to criminalize the now non-harmful behavior of millions of honest Americans?
 
TurtleDude said:
Good luck with that-that won't happen. Second amendment....
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And the challenge in repealing it

We'll start with national background checks and a mandatory firearms register

...when someone is so adamant about trying to convince people who find his arguments nonsensical, that we should give up our freedoms, we have to ask a question: what actual good will come from trying to criminalize the now non-harmful behavior of millions of honest Americans?
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Were the founding fathers likewise adamant ?

How can you say firearms are non-harmful ?

Accidents alone at over 70,000 per year
Deaths are nearly at 40,000 per year
Mass shootings are at nearly one per day.

Harmless ?

You've go to be kidding.
 
Rich2018 said:
I assume you mean inconvenient and yes I suppose you could walk or ride a bicycle but your personal travel would be highly restricted




And probably always had a car owner to rely on for transport...or confined her travels to walking distance and her load to what she could physically carry





I would use the word "necessity" to afford one to live a full life. Have a job, go out etc
If you want to live in a cave, I guess some warmth and bread and water enables you to survive.


You can survive in a prison cell and never need a gun.


I guess we have different measures of "living".
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No, I didn't mean "inconvenient". Try reading the sentence again instead of knee jerking.

More equivocation and it's glaring. You claim a car is a necessity. It's obvious from your argument that is a conditional necessity. The car is necessary IF you want to blah blah blah...it's necessity hinges on how it accommodates your chosen lifestyle.

But then you claim a gun is NOT necessary because you can survive without it. You switch to a different definition when considering guns. Intellectually dishonest. If you use the same definition in both cases, all your arguments apply to guns as well as cars.

BTW, the necessity of my truck does NOT "depend on my line of work". You going there just again points out your desire to claim your own subjective criteria as superior to that of others.
 
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Rich2018 said:
And the challenge in repealing it

We'll start with national background checks and a mandatory firearms register




Were the founding fathers likewise adamant ?

How can you say firearms are non-harmful ?

Accidents alone at over 70,000 per year
Deaths are nearly at 40,000 per year
Mass shootings are at nearly one per day.

Harmless ?

You've go to be kidding.
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you constantly demand registration and I say gun owners should refuse to register firearms and vote against any politicians who want such a thing and you claim it is for crime control

yet here you clearly prove that you support firearms registration to help achieve your goal of banning firearms


see how shallow this is? That you admit you want to ban guns and you want registration PROVES that you see Registration as a tool to help ban firearms
 
RF667799 said:
No, I didn't mean "inconvenient". Try reading the sentence again instead of knee jerking....
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Then what did you mean with your knee jerk statement ?



...more equivocation and it's glaring....
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I think your equivocation glares even more



...you claim a car is a necessity....
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Yes I do


...it's obvious from your argument that is a conditional necessity....
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Yes it is


...the car is necessary IF you want to blah blah blah...it's necessity hinges on how it accommodates your chosen lifestyle...
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Yes it does



...but then you claim a gun is NOT necessary because you can survive without it....
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Yes I do


...you switch to a different definition when considering guns. Intellectually dishonest....
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No it's not, you need a car in Atlanta if you want to work
There's not too many people for who'm walking to work is practical or doing activities regarded as normal, like shopping, visiting the doctor/dentist/post office, going out etc
What if you needed to drive for work, delivery driver, technician, salesman etc


You need a firearm if you want to shoot bullets at a paper target on Saturday afternoons - but that's recreation and is much lower on the list of requirements


...if you use the same definition in both cases, all your arguments apply to guns as well as cars....
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I need a vehicle to work, I do no need a gun, so no they're not and to say so is intellectually dishonest



...the necessity of my truck does NOT "depend on my line of work"....
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So you have a truck to meet self-image requirements.
Well yes, many gun owners buy guns to fulfill that "need".
 
TurtleDude said:
you constantly demand registration and I say gun owners should refuse to register firearms and vote against any politicians who want such a thing and you claim it is for crime control...
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I say voters to vote against any politician who opposes a mandatory registration

...yet here you clearly prove that you support firearms registration to help achieve your goal of banning firearms...
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A register would make banning/confiscating guns easier. But I think I've told you that a gun ban requires the repeal of the 2nd Amendment and that is, at best, unlikely.
Even without a ban a mandatory, national gun register has huge benefits.


...see how shallow this is?
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Nope, it's consistent and with a clear aim


...that you admit you want to ban guns and you want registration PROVES that you see Registration as a tool to help ban firearms
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I haven't denied that mandatory registration would help the banning of guns.
 
Rich2018 said:
I say voters to vote against any politician who opposes a mandatory registration



A register would make banning/confiscating guns easier. But I think I've told you that a gun ban requires the repeal of the 2nd Amendment and that is, at best, unlikely.
Even without a ban a mandatory, national gun register has huge benefits.




Nope, it's consistent and with a clear aim





I haven't denied that mandatory registration would help the banning of guns.
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so lets follow logically-if you support gun banning you do

and support registration (you do)

and admit that registration will help with gun banning and confiscation

therefore

anyone who supports gun ownership should oppose registration and when those who support registration claim it is for crime control, we know its oozing bull excrement.
 
Rich2018 said:
Then what did you mean with your knee jerk statement ?





I think your equivocation glares even more






Yes I do




Yes it is




Yes it does





Yes I do





No it's not, you need a car in Atlanta if you want to work
There's not too many people for who'm walking to work is practical or doing activities regarded as normal, like shopping, visiting the doctor/dentist/post office, going out etc
What if you needed to drive for work, delivery driver, technician, salesman etc


You need a firearm if you want to shoot bullets at a paper target on Saturday afternoons - but that's recreation and is much lower on the list of requirements




I need a vehicle to work, I do no need a gun, so no they're not and to say so is intellectually dishonest





So you have a truck to meet self-image requirements.
Well yes, many gun owners buy guns to fulfill that "need".
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Do you think you will at some point land on one definition of "necessity" and stick with it for both items you are comparing?

You claim you need a vehicle to work but you don't need a gun. Big deal. Those are only an expression of your subjective and conditional needs.

In the meanwhile, suppose my truck IS necessary for my self image? How is that inferior to your necessity for a ****box car? Suppose my truck serves several purposes and one of them is that I feel good driving it? That seems it might mean my truck is of superior necessity to your single purpose ****box. Is that the case? Maybe you can enlighten us since you are the expert on how other people should lead their lives.
 
Saboteur said:
I'm saying we need mental health control not government mandated but government aided.

I suppose some gun lover will now bestow me with of some kid of delusional dystopian view of going back to using government sanctioned asylums...:roll:

So what fantasy world do most gun owners live in?

1. The "hero, good guy with a gun" belief?

or

2. The "everyone is out get me and my stuff" paranoia?

View attachment 67266695
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A good guy with a gun, has the gun for his personal protection, and he does not have these heroic illusions of saving the masses like liberals and anti gun nuts like to make people believe.

In some cases, a good guy with a gun has saved lives.

I carry a gun. I have been trained very well by some of the best professionals to take care of myself. But that doesn't mean that I am going to walk into a shooting and play hero.
 
TurtleDude said:
...anyone who supports gun ownership should oppose registration and when those who support registration claim it is for crime control, we know its oozing bull excrement.
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What about those who support registration but not banning

What about people who think as you do, that there is NO chance of repealing the 2nd amendment but think that a mandatory register would help control gun crime by assisting law enforcement agencies ?
 
RF667799 said:
Do you think you will at some point land on one definition of "necessity" and stick with it for both items you are comparing?

You claim you need a vehicle to work but you don't need a gun. Big deal. Those are only an expression of your subjective and conditional needs.

In the meanwhile, suppose my truck IS necessary for my self image? How is that inferior to your necessity for a ****box car? Suppose my truck serves several purposes and one of them is that I feel good driving it? That seems it might mean my truck is of superior necessity to your single purpose ****box. Is that the case? Maybe you can enlighten us since you are the expert on how other people should lead their lives.
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If you want a job in Atlanta a lead anything approaching a normal life, you need motor transport or access to it (like a friend's vehicle or Uber)

What do you need a gun for ? Recreation (and maybe to plug holes in a low esteem)

QED a car is a necessity, a gun is not


If your car is necessary for your self images, join the gun owners for who'm their gun(s) is necessary for theirs.
 
Rich2018 said:
If you want a job in Atlanta a lead anything approaching a normal life, you need motor transport or access to it (like a friend's vehicle or Uber)

What do you need a gun for ? Recreation (and maybe to plug holes in a low esteem)

QED a car is a necessity, a gun is not


If your car is necessary for your self images, join the gun owners for who'm their gun(s) is necessary for theirs.
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1. You describe a situation where you consider a car to be a necessity.

2. You describe a situation where you consider a gun to be a necessity.

And then......

You claim this proves that a car is a necessity and a gun is not.

Seriously?
 
RF667799 said:
1. You describe a situation where you consider a car to be a necessity...
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Yes, for all practical purposes

2. You describe a situation where you consider a gun to be a necessity.
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No I mention the two main excuses of the gun lobby that guns are a "necessity". (Excuses 2.1 and 2.2)


...you claim this proves that a car is a necessity and a gun is not.
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Yes


...seriously?
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Yes.
 
Rich2018 said:
Yes, for all practical purposes



No I mention the two main excuses of the gun lobby that guns are a "necessity". (Excuses 2.1 and 2.2)




Yes





Yes.
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So now you're back to equivocation. A car is a necessity but a gun is a "necessity". Of course all this was inevitable once you started down the path of setting your personal preferences up as some sort of gauge of universal truth.
 
RF667799 said:
So now you're back to equivocation. A car is a necessity but a gun is a "necessity". Of course all this was inevitable once you started down the path of setting your personal preferences up as some sort of gauge of universal truth.
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I suspect if you really think you need a car and don't have one-there are substitutes and a lack of a car won't cause you to die. If you really need a gun and don't have one, you might well die
 
TurtleDude said:
I suspect if you really think you need a car and don't have one-there are substitutes and a lack of a car won't cause you to die. If you really need a gun and don't have one, you might well die
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Someone once wrote to Mark Twain that he was taking a trip out west and considering Clemen's experience- did he think he would need a gun?

Twain responded something to the effect, "You might need a gun or you might not need a gun. But one thing is sure. If you need a gun, you will need it right then."

(At least I've always thought this attributed to S. Clemens.)
 
TurtleDude said:
I suspect if you really think you need a car and don't have one-there are substitutes and a lack of a car won't cause you to die. If you really need a gun and don't have one, you might well die
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A lack of a gun won't cause you to die - as I can testify to

A lack or a car can cost you your job and house and cause you to live off charity or worse, live homeless - and it's just my perception, but I'd think homeless people have a shorter lifespan.
 
RF667799 said:
....a car is a necessity
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Yes, in many places


...but a gun is a "necessity"
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No it's not

I would hazard a guess that even in the USA most people don't have a gun


...this was inevitable once you started down the path of setting your personal preferences up as some sort of gauge of universal truth.
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"necessity" in this context implies ability to live how you want to.

You don't need a gun for any way you want to live, you do need a vehicle or tell me how a salesman or cable technician can otherwise do his job.
 
Rich2018 said:
Yes, in many places




No it's not

I would hazard a guess that even in the USA most people don't have a gun





"necessity" in this context implies ability to live how you want to.

You don't need a gun for any way you want to live, you do need a vehicle or tell me how a salesman or cable technician can otherwise do his job.
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I noted you were stuck in a trap of your own making.

The bolded above just equates to an individual's personal choice. Necessity in a conditional context. "I have to stop by the store tonight because I need a gift card."

It applies to someone's expressed need for a gun as well as for a vehicle.

You just want to set yourself and your personal opinion up as the supreme arbiter of those conditional needs for everyone else.
 
Rich2018 said:
A lack of a gun won't cause you to die - as I can testify to

A lack or a car can cost you your job and house and cause you to live off charity or worse, live homeless - and it's just my perception, but I'd think homeless people have a shorter lifespan.
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So if someone is attacking you and you don't have a gun-you aren't going to get hurt? where do you come up with such nonsense?
 
RF667799 said:
I noted you were stuck in a trap of your own making.

The bolded above just equates to an individual's personal choice. Necessity in a conditional context. "I have to stop by the store tonight because I need a gift card."

It applies to someone's expressed need for a gun as well as for a vehicle.

You just want to set yourself and your personal opinion up as the supreme arbiter of those conditional needs for everyone else.
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its just idiotic. It is so beyond reality it must be posted as a joke. Half the people I went to law school with-most are millionaires now-don't own cars. They live in NYC, Boston, or London. If they need a "car" it generally is not RIGHT NOW, so they can use a cab, a subway, a rental or an Uber. If you really NEED a gun, you need it INSTANTLY.
 
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