Republicans aren't wrong about 'People with Metnal health Issues'

Saboteur · Oct 22, 2019

Unfortunately 93% of people with guns have mental health issues.

CDC Numbers Once Again Obliterate Democrats’ Newest Gun Control Push

Including the author of the article this picture is attached to;

The issue at hand is evil, plain and simple. There is no way around it without being intellectually dishonest, and denying the fact that dark forces exist in this realm.

That is a disturbing statement, while evil exists I'm not so sure about "DARK FORCES" MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Anyway an estimated 55 Million Americans own a gun;

3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns

The findings include:

An estimated 55 million Americans own guns.

The percentage of the U.S. population who own guns decreased slightly from 25% in 1994 to 22% last year.

Between 300,000 and 600,000 guns are stolen each year.

Gun owners tend to be white, male, conservative, and live in rural areas.

25% of gun owners in America are white or multi-racial, compared with 16% of Hispanics and 14% of African Americans.

There are an estimated 111 million handguns nationwide, a 71% increase from the 65 million handguns in 1994.

So where do criminals (criminals no matter how petty, also suffer from mental illness) get their guns?

Why 'responsible' gun owners of course.

But the answer isn't allowing the government to go snooping around in your medical records to see if you have ever or are currently treating a mental health problem with psychotropic drugs because only 11% us Americans are being truly responsible and getting help;

Antidepressant Use Up 400 Percent in US

The government should be endorsing and even funding programs to change the stigma people have about mental illness and that get people the help they need. But I doubt the republicans care about solutions and would rather just blame away problems on a marginalized group of people.

TurtleDude · Oct 22, 2019

Saboteur said:
Unfortunately 93% of people with guns have mental health issues.

CDC Numbers Once Again Obliterate Democrats’ Newest Gun Control Push

View attachment 67266692

Including the author of the article this picture is attached to;

That is a disturbing statement, while evil exists I'm not so sure about "DARK FORCES" MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Anyway an estimated 55 Million Americans own a gun;

3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns

So where do criminals (criminals no matter how petty, also suffer from mental illness) get their guns?

Why 'responsible' gun owners of course.

But the answer isn't allowing the government to go snooping around in your medical records to see if you have ever or are currently treating a mental health problem with psychotropic drugs because only 11% us Americans are being truly responsible and getting help;

Antidepressant Use Up 400 Percent in US

The government should be endorsing and even funding programs to change the stigma people have about mental illness and that get people the help they need. But I doubt the republicans care about solutions and would rather just blame away problems on a marginalized group of people.

the facts pretty well show that gun control laws have nothing to do with crime control

j brown's body · Oct 22, 2019

Even given the validity of the statement in the title of the thread, what are they going to do about it?

MrWonka · Oct 22, 2019

Saboteur said:
So where do criminals (criminals no matter how petty, also suffer from mental illness) get their guns?

Why 'responsible' gun owners of course.

That is a lot of guns being stolen. It makes me wonder how many of those were actually stolen versus were reported stolen after they were used in a crime and the police showed up asking the owner where is gun was.

Saboteur · Oct 22, 2019

TurtleDude said:
the facts pretty well show that gun control laws have nothing to do with crime control

I'm saying we need mental health control not government mandated but government aided.

I suppose some gun lover will now bestow me with of some kid of delusional dystopian view of going back to using government sanctioned asylums...:roll:

So what fantasy world do most gun owners live in?

1. The "hero, good guy with a gun" belief?

or

2. The "everyone is out get me and my stuff" paranoia?

TurtleDude · Oct 22, 2019

Saboteur said:
I'm saying we need mental health control not government mandated but government aided.

I suppose some gun lover will now bestow me with of some kid of delusional dystopian view of going back to using government sanctioned asylums...:roll:

So what fantasy world do most gun owners live in?

1. The "hero, good guy with a gun" belief?

or

2. The "everyone is out get me and my stuff" paranoia?

View attachment 67266695

are you claiming everyone who commits suicide is mentally ill?

Saboteur · Oct 22, 2019

j brown's body said:
Even given the validity of the statement in the title of the thread, what are they going to do about it?

Nothing, they're just going to continue to demonize the left while lining their pockets with NRA money.

TurtleDude · Oct 22, 2019

MrWonka said:
That is a lot of guns being stolen. It makes me wonder how many of those were actually stolen versus were reported stolen after they were used in a crime and the police showed up asking the owner where is gun was.

I have never seen any attempts to document those. criminals get lots of guns from straw purchasers and I am sure some of them claim the gun used in a robbery or homicide was stolen, when they intentionally bought it for the defendant

ttwtt78640 · Oct 22, 2019

Saboteur said:
I'm saying we need mental health control not government mandated but government aided.

I suppose some gun lover will now bestow me with of some kid of delusional dystopian view of going back to using government sanctioned asylums...:roll:

So what fantasy world do most gun owners live in?

1. The "hero, good guy with a gun" belief?

or

2. The "everyone is out get me and my stuff" paranoia?

View attachment 67266695

This is a moronic argument based on gun "use" being limited to committing a homicide. The 2A makes no mention of a right to commit homicide and for very good reason - there simply is none (with the single exception being self-defense).

Police carry (thus use) a gun constantly, but you seem to assert that they would be just as effective doing their jobs without being armed in all cases unless they do shoot and kill someone with their gun. It is simply stupid to assert that a police officer saying "stop or I'll blow my whistle" would be equally effective as saying "stop or I'll shoot you". This, of course, applies to civilian gun "use" as well.

DGU is not the only reason for having a gun and does not require killing anyone.

HonestJoe · Oct 22, 2019

I think all this proves that, for all or our well-being and sanity, nobody should have the right to bear statistics without appropriate training.

Saboteur · Oct 22, 2019

TurtleDude said:
are you claiming everyone who commits suicide is mentally ill?

Aren't you claiming everyone that commits suicide is a criminal?

TurtleDude said:
the facts pretty well show that gun control laws have nothing to do with crime control

I hope not.

Suicide

Suicide is the act of killing yourself, most often as a result of depression or other mental illness.

I found this though;

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/07/sui...-and-mental-illness-isnt-the-only-factor.html

However, she said it should serve as a reminder that mental illness isn’t the only thing to acknowledge when developing strategies for preventing suicide. She said stressors identified as causes, including relationship problems and financial struggles, should also be addressed.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and still say that though not all people that commit suicide are diagnosed with depression or anxiety there is still a probability that there is a mental health problem for people who respond to stressful situations or rejection by killing themselves.

Or perhaps you suffer from the "hero on a suicide mission" fallacy?

Maybe you're trying to raise the question about doctor assisted suicide for terminal patients? If you are we don't need doctors for that, we have insurance companies.

Saboteur · Oct 22, 2019

ttwtt78640 said:
This is a moronic argument based on gun "use" being limited to committing a homicide. The 2A makes no mention of a right to commit homicide and for very good reason - there simply is none (with the single exception being self-defense).

Police carry (thus use) a gun constantly, but you seem to assert that they would be just as effective doing their jobs without being armed in all cases unless they do shoot and kill someone with their gun. It is simply stupid to assert that a police officer saying "stop or I'll blow my whistle" would be equally effective as saying "stop or I'll shoot you". This, of course, applies to civilian gun "use" as well.

DGU is not the only reason for having a gun and does not require killing anyone.

So, when you use your gun as a hammer do you load it first?

Maybe you use it to turn off the lights before bed?

[YouTube[/video]

TurtleDude · Oct 22, 2019

Saboteur said:
Aren't you claiming everyone that commits suicide is a criminal?

I hope not.

Suicide

I found this though;

Suicide rates are climbing, and mental illness isn'''t the only factor

I'm going to go out on a limb here and still say that though not all people that commit suicide are diagnosed with depression or anxiety there is still a probability that there is a mental health problem for people who respond to stressful situations or rejection by killing themselves.

Or perhaps you suffer from the "hero on a suicide mission" fallacy?

Maybe you're trying to raise the question about doctor assisted suicide for terminal patients? If you are we don't need doctors for that, we have insurance companies.

of course not

Most gun shot deaths that are criminal have no relationship to mental illness

ttwtt78640 · Oct 22, 2019

Saboteur said:
So, when you use your gun as a hammer do you load it first?

Maybe you use it to turn off the lights before bed?

[YouTube[/video]

Nope, on either misuse. When you use your hammer as a gun, does it have an effective range of much over arm's length or allow a quick follow-up blow? When you use your hammer to turn off the lights do folks think that you are an idiot?

Saboteur · Oct 22, 2019

TurtleDude said:
of course not

Most gun shot deaths that are criminal have no relationship to mental illness

So you are saying that the inability to obey the universal moral law of refraining from committing murder isn't a form a psychosis?

And you are saying that a normal person with a conscience who is forced to kill someone wouldn't then suffer from some sort of mental illness such as PTSD?

I think you should talk to a professional about you world view.

ttwtt78640 · Oct 22, 2019

Saboteur said:
Aren't you claiming everyone that commits suicide is a criminal?

I hope not.

Suicide

I found this though;

Suicide rates are climbing, and mental illness isn'''t the only factor

I'm going to go out on a limb here and still say that though not all people that commit suicide are diagnosed with depression or anxiety there is still a probability that there is a mental health problem for people who respond to stressful situations or rejection by killing themselves.

Or perhaps you suffer from the "hero on a suicide mission" fallacy?

Maybe you're trying to raise the question about doctor assisted suicide for terminal patients? If you are we don't need doctors for that, we have insurance companies.

Perhaps we should just admit that guns do not cause suicide, but obviously can be a useful tool for that purpose. Japan has much more strict gun control laws than the US does, but Japan also has a higher suicide rate than the US does.

Saboteur · Oct 22, 2019

ttwtt78640 said:
Nope, on either misuse. When you use your hammer as a gun, does it have an effective range of much over arm's length or allow a quick follow-up blow? When you use your hammer to turn off the lights do folks think that you are an idiot?

Well you seem to be saying that owning a gun is more of a multi-tool experience rather than an instrument that has no other purpose but to injure, maim or kill someone.

ttwtt78640 said:
DGU is not the only reason for having a gun and does not require killing anyone.

Sure you can do that with just about anything but weapons are made to be weapons and nothing else.

Saboteur · Oct 22, 2019

ttwtt78640 said:
Perhaps we should just admit that guns do not cause suicide, but obviously can be a useful tool for that purpose. Japan has much more strict gun control laws than the US does, but Japan also has a higher suicide rate than the US does.

I never said that guns cause suicide but that a good many gun owners have mental health problems.

ttwtt78640 · Oct 22, 2019

Saboteur said:
Well you seem to be saying that owning a gun is more of a multi-tool experience rather than an instrument that has no other purpose but to injure, maim or kill someone.

Sure you can do that with just about anything but weapons are made to be weapons and nothing else.

Your assertion that a gun has no purpose other than killing humans is ridiculous - see hunting and shooting sports. It is certainly true that armed self defense is likely to be more effective than unarmed self defense, thus our department of defense is very well armed.

ttwtt78640 · Oct 22, 2019

Saboteur said:
I never said that guns cause suicide but that a good many gun owners have mental health problems.

Yep, and many non-gun owners have mental health problems. Correlation is not causation.

TurtleDude · Oct 22, 2019

Saboteur said:
So you are saying that the inability to obey the universal moral law of refraining from committing murder isn't a form a psychosis?

And you are saying that a normal person with a conscience who is forced to kill someone wouldn't then suffer from some sort of mental illness such as PTSD?

I think you should talk to a professional about you world view.

what a silly and irrelevant response. Most murders involve felons killing other felons over drug trafficking issues. I know over 20 people who -as military-or police or armed citizens have killed others. Three are former or current special forces operators. Two are swat officers, two are private citizens, and the rest were marines or infantry. One has PTSD.

TurtleDude · Oct 22, 2019

ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, and many non-gun owners have mental health problems. Correlation is not causation.

I am still trying to figure out what he is trying to advocate. His opening post shows that legal gun owners cause almost no crime with firearms.

ttwtt78640 · Oct 22, 2019

TurtleDude said:
I am still trying to figure out what he is trying to advocate. His opening post shows that legal gun owners cause almost no crime with firearms.

I am assuming that he is trying to advocate removing guns and/or gun possession rights from folks with "mental health issues" without need for any formal judicial review/due process of law. It is certainly valid to express concern over millions of seriously mentally ill and known to be dangerous persons being allowed to roam freely among us, but to limit that concern to trying to make gun access as difficult as possible (for everyone?) is troubling.

Saboteur · Oct 22, 2019

TurtleDude said:
what a silly and irrelevant response. Most murders involve felons killing other felons over drug trafficking issues. I know over 20 people who -as military-or police or armed citizens have killed others. Three are former or current special forces operators. Two are swat officers, two are private citizens, and the rest were marines or infantry. One has PTSD.

It's not silly, either over 19 of your acquaintances have psychopathic traits or they all have some form of guilt, shame or PTSD and only 1 admits it. I hope it's the latter

What Is a Psychopath? | Psychology Today

Uncaring
The PCL describes psychopaths as being callous and showing a lack of empathy, traits which the PPI describes as “coldheartedness.” The criteria for dissocial personality disorder include a “callous unconcern for the feelings of others.” There are now several lines of evidence that point to the biological grounding for the uncaring nature of the psychopath. For most people, caring is a largely emotion-driven enterprise. The brains of psychopaths have been found to have weak connections among the components of the brain’s emotional systems. These disconnects seem to be responsible for the psychopath’s inability to feel emotions deeply. Psychopaths are also not good at detecting fear in the faces of other people (Blair et al., 2004). The emotion of disgust also plays an important role in our ethical sense. We find certain types of unethical actions disgusting, and this works to keep us from engaging in them and makes us express disapproval of them. But psychopaths have extremely high thresholds for disgust, as measured by their reactions when shown disgusting photos of mutilated faces or exposed to foul odors.

Or like when they rationalize gun violence/deaths as felons killing felons.

Insincere speech

Ranging from what the PCL describes as “glibness” and “superficial charm,” to Cleckley’s “untruthfulness” and “insincerity,” to outright “pathological lying,” there is a trend toward devaluing speech among psychopaths by inflating and distorting it toward selfish ends. The criteria for APD include “conning others for personal profit or pleasure.” One concerned father of a young sociopathic woman said, “I can't understand the girl, no matter how hard I try. It's not that she seems bad or exactly that she means to do wrong. She can lie with the straightest face, and after she's found in the most outlandish lies she still seems perfectly easy in her own mind” (Cleckley, 1941, p. 47). This casual use of words may be attributable to what some researchers call a shallow sense of word meaning. Psychopaths do not show the same differential brain response to emotional terms over neutral terms that normal people do (Williamson et al., 1991). They also have trouble understanding metaphors and abstract words.

Like when they can't understand that a person pointing out that the overwhelming majority of gun owners have a mental health problem and should get help and instead interpret it as that person wants to take your guns away because you have a mental health problem evidenced by your ownership of a gun.

Jeez guys... I'm not saying we should take away guns from people with treatable mental health conditions.

What I am saying is, please read this if you can't stand to read anything else, if you have even an inkling of an idea that you or someone you know may have a mental health problem.. get some help!

Saboteur · Oct 22, 2019

ttwtt78640 said:
Your assertion that a gun has no purpose other than killing humans is ridiculous - see hunting and shooting sports. It is certainly true that armed self defense is likely to be more effective than unarmed self defense, thus our department of defense is very well armed.

Hunting is still killing, sport is just an expression of skill with a weapon.

Republicans aren't wrong about 'People with Metnal health Issues'

Saboteur

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

j brown's body

"A Soros-backed animal"

MrWonka

Saboteur

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

Saboteur

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

HonestJoe

Saboteur

Saboteur

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

Saboteur

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

Saboteur

Saboteur

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

Saboteur

Saboteur