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Gun Survey: Americans believe Mass Shootings More Prevalent than Gun Suicides

AGENT J said:
nt surprising at all..
millions of americans dont know what an "assault rifle" is either or what an AR-15 actually is and why its "magically" more dangerous
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An assault rifle is a full automatic. You can hold down the trigger and it will keep firing until you let go of the trigger or until you run out of ammo. Generally only available to people with government jobs where they use them such as soldiers or police officers in special divisions, or if you've got a class III firearm permit you can get one that was manufactured in 1986 or earlier.

An AR-15 is a semi automatic rifle based on the ArmaLite AR-15 design. Although it might look like many of the common assault rifles and might be on the same platform it does not function the same. With the AR-15 you get only one shot per pull of the trigger. You then have to let go of the trigger and pull it again to get another shot. So it fires slower than a full automatic but faster than other long guns where you might have to work a bolt or lever or pump the fore-end in between shots to load the next shot.
 
DebateChallenge said:
An assault rifle is a full automatic. You can hold down the trigger and it will keep firing until you let go of the trigger or until you run out of ammo. Generally only available to people with government jobs where they use them such as soldiers or police officers in special divisions, or if you've got a class III firearm permit you can get one that was manufactured in 1986 or earlier.

An AR-15 is a semi automatic rifle based on the ArmaLite AR-15 design. Although it might look like many of the common assault rifles and might be on the same platform it does not function the same. With the AR-15 you get only one shot per pull of the trigger. You then have to let go of the trigger and pull it again to get another shot. So it fires slower than a full automatic but faster than other long guns where you might have to work a bolt or lever or pump the fore-end in between shots to load the next shot.
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TLDR Did your have a point? lol
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Excuses 1 and 2 = You are afraid to take the bet.

#3 - - So if gun banners are just essentially dishonest people and "that's all there is to it" then pro-lifers are dishonest, and so are folks who are against the death penalty, so are people who are against pollution, so are people who are in favor of developing alternative energy, so are the electric car people, so is literally ANYONE who is trying to alter the status quo.

Sorry, but if your goal doesn't include trying to reach out and educate people, then everything else is just masturbation, because it can be proven in the wink of an eye that there are dishonest people in every aspect of politics. Big deal.
You could have proven that there are some dishonest people on that side of the issue in less than a day.

You're pushing pure dishonesty simply by implying that literally everyone in the gun ban club is just fundamentally dishonest.
The idea that NOBODY on that side of the discussion is even remotely honest in their views is not something a rational person would say.

I don't even like talking to gun banners but even I know that some of them are just people who are terrified of guns and don't want them around. I know for a fact that some of them are just people who simply think we can legislate our way out of the problem, and then, as if by magic, they think they will wake up in a gigantic gun-free zone stretching from L.A. to New York and all points in between.

They're not very bright or very reasonable, but I'd say that they were honest in their beliefs and honest in pursuit of their goals.
They think that they're going to somehow make this country 100% safe from gun violence if they can just pass the right laws.
They honestly think that this is somehow possible and they honestly believe it is a good thing that can realistically be accomplished, and that everyone will somehow be better off in the end.

It's a stupid point of view to be sure, but I can see how they might think it's honest, and even decent and moral, even if it really isn't honest, decent, moral or...worst of all, effective.

But it's not because they are fundamentally dishonest, it's because for these people, the quirks of human nature are not in evidence such that they would see the holes in their logic, that's all.

And I am now bored with talking about why you suck at your goals.
You just let me know when you want to try having a contest to see who is more effective at reaching these fringe people.
Just let me know.

Inside of one week's time, I wager I will have enlightened at least one of them, and you will have caused at least one of them to dig their heels in even deeper. You pick your target and I will pick mine, and I will stay away from yours and vice versa.

At the end of a week, you will have reverted to type...in fact, long before that.
You don't have the stomach for a rational discussion with anybody.
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I really do wish you and TurtleDude could get along better but I do think you're right that not all gun banners are dishonest, many of them are just ignorant. All too often an aversion to guns is due to plain old ignorance. There definitely are some people in the gun banning crowd that are dishonest, many that are both dishonest and ignorant, but I would say the vast majority of them are ignorant whether they're dishonest or not.
As somebody who is well educated on guns, and who has a college degree, I can see how ignorance might breed an aversion to guns.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I had a neighbor who saw me with my pistol in my back yard, and she called the police on me.
Naturally, since I had not discharged the weapon and I was in MY back yard, not out in front brandishing it or whatever other nonsense, I was within my rights, and the PD did nothing.

I actually managed to take her to the shooting range three months later and she actually squeezed off a few rounds.
She actually thought it was fun...AT THE RANGE, but she STILL believed that ordinary people should not be allowed to own guns.
By the time we moved away, she was considering purchasing one for home protection.
I'd sure love to know if she followed through.
It's certainly possible she reverted to type after we moved, but I don't think she'll ever forget how much fun she had at the range. I think Karen got through to her more than I did.
Unfair tactics. My wife IS a secret weapon.
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On your profile it says you're in Los Angeles so Im not surprised your neighbor called the police when she saw you had a gun, even if you had it on your own property and were not using it in a threatening manner. I am surprised that the PD did nothing what with it being Los Angeles. I would expect them to do nothing, or for a neighbor to even call the police in such a situation in a place such as Nevada or Pennsylvania or Ohio, but in SoCal, particularly in L.A. I would expect something different. They're not all that gun friendly.

As for your neighbor, Im quite sure she did get a handgun as she considered or at least she didn't convert back to her old type, from my experience in the world of guns I can say this much, once you go down that path there's no turning back.
 
DebateChallenge said:
My point? Im pointing out what an assault rifle is and what an AR1-15 is and the differences between each.
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So the correct answer is NO you had no relevant point, I guessed as much thats why i stopped reading, thanks for confirming lol
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't know if I can agree with all of that when it comes to most gun banners. Some, yes, but most no. Most of the gun banners I have encountered are not leaders. They are democratic party activists who despise the power the NRA and gun owners wield in elections. They are upset that the NRA cost Al Gore his own home state (Tennessee) and with it, the election. They loathe the NRA for keeping Trump viable in Ohio in 2016. And they hate the fact that NRA supported judges tend to not support pet agenda items of the left-such as pro abortion and gay rights.
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Well it's probably not all the people that argue for being gun but it certainly some of them. Others are a little parakeets repeating what they were taught to say. Feeling so sophisticated them because they can see the beauty and splendor of The emperor's New clothes.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Nope, neither you or CLAX are even remotely correct about any of it and YOU, TD...you know you are way off.
Really, ask yourself if the average Democrat spends more than a nanosecond even thinking about any of that nonsense.
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okay.

Hey CLAX, do you think a Democrat spends a nanosecond thinking about that?

Well CLAX thanks for asking. The Democrats have been throwing a ten staged temper fit for three years because of the election of Donald. Not only are they but they have been on a mission to usurp the people of the United States since he took office.

They have fabricated hoax after hoax. And it seems to be all we can hear it out on this forum.

So you not only do I believe that they think that it's almost assured.

Basically put is the Democrats that hold office are our most dangerous enemy. They want to rape and pillage our economy, they want to throw up in the gates and let anyone invade. Every single one of the knuckleheads running for office supports a variant of socialism.

Don't tell me about the Republicans because they're not any different. They want all the same things. The only things they do differently that makes them a little less horrible is they don't want to destroy every single industry and business that doesn't bow to them. That's it. That one reason is why you get a straight-ticket vote from me.

And you think gun control is a good idea? Words can't describe flabbergasted again at the stupidity of that. No no government control was a good idea at this point they have too much.
 
=Checkerboard Strangler;1070748784]Nope, neither you or CLAX are even remotely correct about any of it and YOU, TD...you know you are way off.
Really, ask yourself if the average Democrat spends more than a nanosecond even thinking about any of that nonsense.
You know it's not the case, and you know it's just low information Dems who are convinced that "WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!"

And they've been taught that passing all kinds of restrictions on this or that model firearm is the magic bullet that will fix the problem.
You KNOW THIS, Turtle Dude. You know it fully well.
You also know that the average Dem who wants to ban guns thinks that the ban will make all guns magically disappear.
Wouldn't it be great if that really was the truth?
POOF!! One vote and BLAMMO, all the guns just disappear!!

If you can explain, calmly and respectfully, why the guns WON'T disappear, then you might have an upset Dem gun banner on your hands but you have an opportunity to again calmly explain why law abiding owners don't want the mass shootings anymore than they do, and that they too would love to figure out a solution to the problem.

But see, this is why I've never taken you seriously on the gun issue, even when you say some smart things, which you occasionally do. But I know you're not the least bit serious about getting gun grabbing Dems lured over to the side of common sense.
You sir, are the nihilist, you and CLAX both.
Your nihilism is directed outward at anything and anyone who isn't hardcore conservative NRA all the way.

So it boils down to folks like me, people who are on the Left who own guns.
I have to explain to fellow libs that we are stuck with the guns and that there are ways to reduce mass shootings and other random violence, and I have to explain to them that other forms of gun violence have been on the decline for decades, and I have to explain that the rest of the laws that we already have are pretty good for dealing with the average armed criminal.
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And sometimes when it boils down to people like you having to explain to fellow libs(your words not mine)better ways "to reduce mass shootings and other random violence,"is when problems arise. Have you tried to talk to a anti gun person on here or anywhere really and get anywhere? And yes I know there are a lot of people on the left that own guns and would no more register or turn them in then I would.

And I have to explain that gun ownership doesn't mean one has to act like an idiot who hates half the country.
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And I bet you explain it like a true lefty. If I'm wrong then explain it too a few on here since you seem too have their ear.
All I seem to get are form letters,ahem.
 
TurtleDude said:
I have no idea what you are trying to convey but I know you haven't a clue what my goals are or what I am trying to accomplish. And having dealt with the anti gun movement in about every arena you can think of over the last 40+ years, I will stick to my view of what motivates their leaders.
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TD,hell yeah. Take a picture while your at it but you can use one camera.;)
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Now there's the TD I've come to know.
Dodge and deflect some more.

Like I said, twenty bucks says I can reach out and change the thinking of a gun grabber better than you can.
You up for a bet? I pay my bets.
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I'd say jet or the big V but they'd go with you just too get at TD.
 
zsu2357 said:
I'd say jet or the big V but they'd go with you just too get at TD.
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The idea that anyone who supports reasonable gun control is a gun banner is why no discussion can be had with gun nuts.


I shoot all the time and love to be at the range. But if I suggest universal background checks to a gun nut they just cant hear it.
 
DebateChallenge said:
I really do wish you and TurtleDude could get along better but I do think you're right that not all gun banners are dishonest, many of them are just ignorant. All too often an aversion to guns is due to plain old ignorance. There definitely are some people in the gun banning crowd that are dishonest, many that are both dishonest and ignorant, but I would say the vast majority of them are ignorant whether they're dishonest or not.
As somebody who is well educated on guns, and who has a college degree, I can see how ignorance might breed an aversion to guns.
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Yes, that's what most of it is. I've been trying to explain that forever, and truth be told, I admit that most of the time I'm not doing that explaining to connies, I'm doing it to fellow libbies...the ones with the supersized fear of guns.
Maybe I should try more outreach to connies, but with the way some of them act, it's discouraging.

I mean, where does one start with someone who has made up their mind forever that all gun grabbers are just fundamentally dishonest? Them's fighting words, so discussion time is over even before it begins.

The majority of gun grabbers don't know the first thing about guns. In fact, their ignorance actually puts them in the negative column, as in: knowing even LESS than nothing, as anyone who has ever heard Dianne Feinstein talk already knows.
Now, Feinstein IS fundamentally dishonest because anyone in her position has access to resources which can educate her and her constituents.
But then you run into the constituents, some of who are fundamentally dishonest, and again, a large number of ignorant followers. They're CAMP followers, really. They've latched onto some notion that guns, four hundred million of them, are going to magically disappear.

The first thing I do when talking to a gun grabber is, I talk about the money and the math.
Ridding a free industrialized democratic constitutional republic of 400 million guns is a fiscal and mathematical impossibility.

It just is, no matter how you slice it, it will never ever happen.

It takes a while but with patience, and some sympathy, you CAN bring some of them into the cold light of day, where they realize that guns are here to stay. They aren't happy about it but they want to know what CAN be done about them, if they can't be made to disappear.
Once they're asking questions like that, I know we're at a place where we can both evolve.
It has to start somewhere!
 
DebateChallenge said:
On your profile it says you're in Los Angeles so Im not surprised your neighbor called the police when she saw you had a gun, even if you had it on your own property and were not using it in a threatening manner. I am surprised that the PD did nothing what with it being Los Angeles. I would expect them to do nothing, or for a neighbor to even call the police in such a situation in a place such as Nevada or Pennsylvania or Ohio, but in SoCal, particularly in L.A. I would expect something different. They're not all that gun friendly.

As for your neighbor, Im quite sure she did get a handgun as she considered or at least she didn't convert back to her old type, from my experience in the world of guns I can say this much, once you go down that path there's no turning back.
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Nope, this happened when we were living in the Dallas area. We only moved back to Los Angeles in 2012.
Here in L.A., I keep things much more close to the vest.
I know for a fact that one neighbor keeps a couple of guns, they know I have a couple, and that's that.

But the funny thing is, MOST gun owners out here extend the same courtesies to each other as they do everywhere.
All three of us are pretty much center-left for the most part.
Another guy down the street who has expressed a lot of pro-Trump sentiment on the Nextdoor app thinks we're the libtards trying to take HIS gun rights away. I am not interested in revealing my gun ownership on Nextdoor, so I have to read his nonsense and laugh. I suspect he is NOT willing to extend much in the way of courtesy, LOL.

But I actually suspect that there are more gun owners in my little Southern California neighborhood than there were in my neighborhood in Texas. Call it a gut feeling if you want.

Southern California libbies of the hispanic persuasion seem to like to blend a little bit of 2A "hot sauce" in with their liberalism, which by the way, isn't quite the same as the liberalism you encounter from, say perhaps, the crowd in Santa Monica or West Hollywood.
Latino liberalism is firmly entrenched in a certain liberation zeitgeist which puts a bit of an extra squeeze on principles like 1A, 2A and 4A which, given the history of their culture here, isn't surprising. It's hard to be anti-gun when you know the gangbangers all have them AND you also know that "the man" doesn't want you to have them either.

In my little neighborhood, the echoes of our gang history are only fifteen or so years in the past, so it's not surprising that many Latinos feel the need for self-defense. It hasn't been a hot zone for a long time but memories are longer.
 
CLAX1911 said:
okay.

Hey CLAX, do you think a Democrat spends a nanosecond thinking about that?

Well CLAX thanks for asking. The Democrats have been throwing a ten staged temper fit for three years because of the election of Donald. Not only are they but they have been on a mission to usurp the people of the United States since he took office.

They have fabricated hoax after hoax. And it seems to be all we can hear it out on this forum.

So you not only do I believe that they think that it's almost assured.

Basically put is the Democrats that hold office are our most dangerous enemy. They want to rape and pillage our economy, they want to throw up in the gates and let anyone invade. Every single one of the knuckleheads running for office supports a variant of socialism.

Don't tell me about the Republicans because they're not any different. They want all the same things. The only things they do differently that makes them a little less horrible is they don't want to destroy every single industry and business that doesn't bow to them. That's it. That one reason is why you get a straight-ticket vote from me.

And you think gun control is a good idea? Words can't describe flabbergasted again at the stupidity of that. No no government control was a good idea at this point they have too much.
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See what I mean? The "supreme knower of all" has spoken. :lamo
 
zsu2357 said:
I'd say jet or the big V but they'd go with you just too get at TD.
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No no no...if you think this is about "winning something"...yeah I do think I would win the bet but I would go about it by honest means, actually trying to engage someone, not some backhanded nonsensical forum mind-**** to win points.

Not into empty DP victories, not into "owning the contards".
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
See what I mean? The "supreme knower of all" has spoken. :lamo
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I don't doubt you have a problem with that because you don't want it to be true.

maybe if you feel that way you should reconsider whether or not you're a Democrat. there's nothing wrong with being an independent liberal.
 
If 17 people get shot and two die, is that classified as a mass shooting?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
No no no...if you think this is about "winning something"...yeah I do think I would win the bet but I would go about it by honest means, actually trying to engage someone, not some backhanded nonsensical forum mind-**** to win points.

Not into empty DP victories, not into "owning the contards".
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You're trying to engage a look at the response you gave to me.

I realize that I'm adversarial in this discussion but that's who you engage with otherwise you're just in an echo chamber.

You didn't argue against any of my points so that means you don't disagree with it. Or you can't present an argument to the contrary.

I challenged you and you backed away.
 
Somebody throw up the number of people shot in the United States every year who don't die.
 
CLAX1911 said:
You're trying to engage a look at the response you gave to me.

I realize that I'm adversarial in this discussion but that's who you engage with otherwise you're just in an echo chamber.

You didn't argue against any of my points so that means you don't disagree with it. Or you can't present an argument to the contrary.

I challenged you and you backed away.
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Challenged me with what? That response up there was to zsu-something or other (long random number) and not to you, so let's start off with the fact that you don't even know who you're responding to.

To get back to the thread, I wager I can reach out to a gun grabber and enlighten and educate them, and most of you guys cannot. Now, what did you challenge me on again?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Challenged me with what?
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read my post that you previously responded to. Argue the points I made.
That response up there was to zsu-something or other (long random number) and not to you, so let's start off with the fact that you don't even know who you're responding to.
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if it wasn't meant for me to read and respond to it should be a private message. If you post it on a public forum you're allowing anyone privilege to respond to it.

Did someone hack your account of course I know who I'm talking to unless there's somebody else with the exact same name as you and exact same Avatar.
To get back to the thread, I wager I can reach out to a gun grabber and enlighten and educate them, and most of you guys cannot. Now, what did you challenge me on again?
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Yeah well people like me are pretty much written off by the pigheaded.
 
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Checkerboard Strangler said:
Ridding a free industrialized democratic constitutional republic of 400 million guns is a fiscal and mathematical impossibility.
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According to the gun grabbers its possible given time. It might take awhile, it might take a long long time, but at least it will happen sooner or later whether it takes 1 year, 10 years, or 100 years it will happen. At least that's how it is according to the gun grabbers.
 
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