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Gun Survey: Americans believe Mass Shootings More Prevalent than Gun Suicides

vegas giants said:
You prove my point.


No amount of evidence will ever break the faith of your religion
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It's hard to imagine how you got to that conclusion from my statement that you might "convince someone." I didn't say that you'll convince me, specifically (I'm "someone") because I just happen to have experience with what you count as "evidence."
 
Tlrmln said:
There's no evidence that gun control reduces suicides.
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That's kind of funny. That's like saying let's reduce suicides by jumping, but making it illegal to jump off a building.

I'm sure someone who has committed to ending their life wouldn't risk breaking a law cuz you know the consequences.

Lol
 
CLAX1911 said:
That's kind of funny. That's like saying let's reduce suicides by jumping, but making it illegal to jump off a building.

I'm sure someone who has committed to ending their life wouldn't risk breaking a law cuz you know the consequences.

Lol
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well look at the entire premise of gun control

passing laws that restrict gun owners( who have never harmed anyone) from doing stuff that has not harmed anyone, hoping it will stop people who plan on harming innocents and not being deterred by the thought of the penalties meted out for armed robbery, mayhem, forcible rape or homicide
 
TurtleDude said:
well look at the entire premise of gun control

passing laws that restrict gun owners( who have never harmed anyone) from doing stuff that has not harmed anyone, hoping it will stop people who plan on harming innocents and not being deterred by the thought of the penalties meted out for armed robbery, mayhem, forcible rape or homicide
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I think gun control is a smokescreen. It's not really about controlling guns. It's about you. And I don't mean you is in you personally, I mean you as in a freedom loving American countryman.

Gun control just like attacks on Christianity, I'm trying to make it to where you don't get a say in whether your three year old gets a sex change, and your vary decency.

They kneel in front of the flag at your sporting events not to support black people but to piss you off, and destroy that part of Americana.

I have some ideas on the reasons why they want to do this.

But the reason that they do it is because they are nihilists. And they hate you for believing in something.

That's why all the gun control arguments that people make are stupid. They are meant to convince the stupid.

They lick their lips in Glee when someone goes on a rampage and slaughters babies. And they blame you.

The only thing these people will understand the only thing that will stop them is brutality.

So I don't buy this gun control crap.

Beto doesn't want to take your guns because he is afraid you will shoot somebody with it. He wants to take them so you can't shoot him. That's what we have them for. When you lead us you are supposed to be afraid of that.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I think gun control is a smokescreen. It's not really about controlling guns. It's about you. And I don't mean you is in you personally, I mean you as in a freedom loving American countryman.

Gun control just like attacks on Christianity, I'm trying to make it to where you don't get a say in whether your three year old gets a sex change, and your vary decency.

They kneel in front of the flag at your sporting events not to support black people but to piss you off, and destroy that part of Americana.

I have some ideas on the reasons why they want to do this.

But the reason that they do it is because they are nihilists. And they hate you for believing in something.

That's why all the gun control arguments that people make are stupid. They are meant to convince the stupid.

They lick their lips in Glee when someone goes on a rampage and slaughters babies. And they blame you.

The only thing these people will understand the only thing that will stop them is brutality.

So I don't buy this gun control crap.

Beto doesn't want to take your guns because he is afraid you will shoot somebody with it. He wants to take them so you can't shoot him. That's what we have them for. When you lead us you are supposed to be afraid of that.
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I don't know if I can agree with all of that when it comes to most gun banners. Some, yes, but most no. Most of the gun banners I have encountered are not leaders. They are democratic party activists who despise the power the NRA and gun owners wield in elections. They are upset that the NRA cost Al Gore his own home state (Tennessee) and with it, the election. They loathe the NRA for keeping Trump viable in Ohio in 2016. And they hate the fact that NRA supported judges tend to not support pet agenda items of the left-such as pro abortion and gay rights.
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't know if I can agree with all of that when it comes to most gun banners. Some, yes, but most no. Most of the gun banners I have encountered are not leaders. They are democratic party activists who despise the power the NRA and gun owners wield in elections. They are upset that the NRA cost Al Gore his own home state (Tennessee) and with it, the election. They loathe the NRA for keeping Trump viable in Ohio in 2016. And they hate the fact that NRA supported judges tend to not support pet agenda items of the left-such as pro abortion and gay rights.
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Nope, neither you or CLAX are even remotely correct about any of it and YOU, TD...you know you are way off.
Really, ask yourself if the average Democrat spends more than a nanosecond even thinking about any of that nonsense.
You know it's not the case, and you know it's just low information Dems who are convinced that "WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!"

And they've been taught that passing all kinds of restrictions on this or that model firearm is the magic bullet that will fix the problem.
You KNOW THIS, Turtle Dude. You know it fully well.
You also know that the average Dem who wants to ban guns thinks that the ban will make all guns magically disappear.
Wouldn't it be great if that really was the truth?
POOF!! One vote and BLAMMO, all the guns just disappear!!

If you can explain, calmly and respectfully, why the guns WON'T disappear, then you might have an upset Dem gun banner on your hands but you have an opportunity to again calmly explain why law abiding owners don't want the mass shootings anymore than they do, and that they too would love to figure out a solution to the problem.

But see, this is why I've never taken you seriously on the gun issue, even when you say some smart things, which you occasionally do. But I know you're not the least bit serious about getting gun grabbing Dems lured over to the side of common sense.
You sir, are the nihilist, you and CLAX both.
Your nihilism is directed outward at anything and anyone who isn't hardcore conservative NRA all the way.

So it boils down to folks like me, people who are on the Left who own guns.
I have to explain to fellow libs that we are stuck with the guns and that there are ways to reduce mass shootings and other random violence, and I have to explain to them that other forms of gun violence have been on the decline for decades, and I have to explain that the rest of the laws that we already have are pretty good for dealing with the average armed criminal.

And I have to explain that gun ownership doesn't mean one has to act like an idiot who hates half the country.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Nope, neither you or CLAX are even remotely correct about any of it and YOU, TD...you know you are way off.
Really, ask yourself if the average Democrat spends more than a nanosecond even thinking about any of that nonsense.
You know it's not the case, and you know it's just low information Dems who are convinced that "WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!"

And they've been taught that passing all kinds of restrictions on this or that model firearm is the magic bullet that will fix the problem.
You KNOW THIS, Turtle Dude. You know it fully well.
You also know that the average Dem who wants to ban guns thinks that the ban will make all guns magically disappear.
Wouldn't it be great if that really was the truth?
POOF!! One vote and BLAMMO, all the guns just disappear!!

If you can explain, calmly and respectfully, why the guns WON'T disappear, then you might have an upset Dem gun banner on your hands but you have an opportunity to again calmly explain why law abiding owners don't want the mass shootings anymore than they do, and that they too would love to figure out a solution to the problem.

But see, this is why I've never taken you seriously on the gun issue, even when you say some smart things, which you occasionally do. But I know you're not the least bit serious about getting gun grabbing Dems lured over to the side of common sense.
You sir, are the nihilist, you and CLAX both.
Your nihilism is directed outward at anything and anyone who isn't hardcore conservative NRA all the way.

So it boils down to folks like me, people who are on the Left who own guns.
I have to explain to fellow libs that we are stuck with the guns and that there are ways to reduce mass shootings and other random violence, and I have to explain to them that other forms of gun violence have been on the decline for decades, and I have to explain that the rest of the laws that we already have are pretty good for dealing with the average armed criminal.

And I have to explain that gun ownership doesn't mean one has to act like an idiot who hates half the country.
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I was not talking about average democrats. I was talking about gun control advocates/gun banners. You can see it right in the post you quoted.
 
Not shocking. Most of the idiot left is led around by an agenda driven media and a corrupt rat party. Its also seen in their opinions on Trump and Russia, Trump and impeachment, and most of the **** the media and rat party spews.
 
VanceMack said:
Not shocking. Most of the idiot left is led around by an agenda driven media and a corrupt rat party. Its also seen in their opinions on Trump and Russia, Trump and impeachment, and most of the **** the media and rat party spews.
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yet we have several anti gun posters constantly telling us that X amount of americans want to ban "assault weapons". Sorry if you ask someone this question: are more people killed each year with "assault weapons" or beatings and they answer assault weapons, their opinion on guns is not one that should be taken seriously.
 
TurtleDude said:
I was not talking about average democrats. I was talking about gun control advocates/gun banners. You can see it right in the post you quoted.
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The same.
You call yourself a lawyer, that means you have to be really good at cooking up whatever baloney is necessary to sell your argument to a jury of peers.
(Even if it's not baloney at all!)

You suck at it, pal. Sorry!

I mean, you're a lawyer, so it's a cinch you've had to face a panel of persons who don't want to believe your arguments, people whose views you'd normally consider a bit fringey, at least as far as the case goes anyway.
You still have to convince them, you still have to sell them.

So why don't you sell them?
Because you suck at it and then after the suckage has commenced, you pivot to dragging them through the mud.
Yeah, bold strategy, counselor!! Let's see if it works for you!!!

It doesn't ;)

If you were serious, you'd try to reach out to the worst ones, the gun grabbers and gun banners.
I do it all the time, right here on DP.
I'm not a lawyer and I bet you twenty bucks I've done better at reaching across to the other side on the gun issue than you have. I bet I could mop the floor with you with my eyes closed and one hand tied behind my back on the gun grabbing issue.

And you should be the one mopping the floor, not me. You went school to learn how!
I went to school to learn how to do effortless J-cuts, and how to sync up wobbly sound footage with picture, and how to use the "Sunny 16 Rule" and how to make sure different brands and models of camera have close enough colorimetry to match shots on a multi-cam shoot.

But you don't care, you don't honestly give two ****s.
Worse yet, I don't think you give two ****s in real life either.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
The same.
You call yourself a lawyer, that means you have to be really good at cooking up whatever baloney is necessary to sell your argument to a jury of peers.
(Even if it's not baloney at all!)

You suck at it, pal. Sorry!

I mean, you're a lawyer, so it's a cinch you've had to face a panel of persons who don't want to believe your arguments, people whose views you'd normally consider a bit fringey, at least as far as the case goes anyway.
You still have to convince them, you still have to sell them.

So why don't you sell them?
Because you suck at it and then after the suckage has commenced, you pivot to dragging them through the mud.
Yeah, bold strategy, counselor!! Let's see if it works for you!!!

It doesn't ;)

If you were serious, you'd try to reach out to the worst ones, the gun grabbers and gun banners.
I do it all the time, right here on DP.
I'm not a lawyer and I bet you twenty bucks I've done better at reaching across to the other side on the gun issue than you have. I bet I could mop the floor with you with my eyes closed and one hand tied behind my back on the gun grabbing issue.

And you should be the one mopping the floor, not me. You went school to learn how!
I went to school to learn how to do effortless J-cuts, and how to sync up wobbly sound footage with picture, and how to use the "Sunny 16 Rule" and how to make sure different brands and models of camera have close enough colorimetry to match shots on a multi-cam shoot.

But you don't care, you don't honestly give two ****s.
Worse yet, I don't think you give two ****s in real life either.
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I have no idea what you are trying to convey but I know you haven't a clue what my goals are or what I am trying to accomplish. And having dealt with the anti gun movement in about every arena you can think of over the last 40+ years, I will stick to my view of what motivates their leaders.
 
TurtleDude said:
I have no idea what you are trying to convey but I know you haven't a clue what my goals are or what I am trying to accomplish. And having dealt with the anti gun movement in about every arena you can think of over the last 40+ years, I will stick to my view of what motivates their leaders.
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In real life, I would have no clue what you're trying to accomplish.
Here on DP, it doesn't take a law degree to suss that out:

You're trying to accomplish one thing and one thing only here on DP - - calling liberals poopyheads.
And you could spend another 40 years "with the anti gun movement in about every arena" I can think of but spending forty years sucking at something doesn't magically make you better at it.
I spent the last forty years sucking at carpentry, which is why I never bother trying to get in with the carpentry crews on films.
There's plenty of work for union carpenters on a set but I wouldn't last five minutes without being laughed off the set.

There's no such real life penalty for sucking on DP.
You will stick with your view of what motivates the gun grabbers?
OF COURSE YOU WILL!!! :lamo

I expected nothing less! Behold the suckage!

OF COURSE!!!!

 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
In real life, I would have no clue what you're trying to accomplish.
Here on DP, it doesn't take a law degree to suss that out:

You're trying to accomplish one thing and one thing only here on DP - - calling liberals poopyheads.
And you could spend another 40 years "with the anti gun movement in about every arena" I can think of but spending forty years sucking at something doesn't magically make you better at it.
I spent the last forty years sucking at carpentry, which is why I never bother trying to get in with the carpentry crews on films.
There's plenty of work for union carpenters on a set but I wouldn't last five minutes without being laughed off the set.

There's no such real life penalty for sucking on DP.
You will stick with your view of what motivates the gun grabbers?
OF COURSE YOU WILL!!! :lamo

I expected nothing less! Behold the suckage!

OF COURSE!!!!

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That doesn't even make sense.
 
TurtleDude said:
That doesn't even make sense.
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Now there's the TD I've come to know.
Dodge and deflect some more.

Like I said, twenty bucks says I can reach out and change the thinking of a gun grabber better than you can.
You up for a bet? I pay my bets.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Now there's the TD I've come to know.
Dodge and deflect some more.

Like I said, twenty bucks says I can reach out and change the thinking of a gun grabber better than you can.
You up for a bet? I pay my bets.
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1) every time I have offered to make a wager, I have been told that is not kosher on this board

2) I don't have any clue how you could prove this and establish that it was actually accomplished

3) My goal isn't changing those who are committed to gun banning. My goal is to demonstrate their dishonesty
 
TurtleDude said:
And they hate the fact that NRA supported judges tend to not support pet agenda items of the left-such as pro abortion and gay rights.
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There are some people who support both gun rights and gay rights, the Pink Pistols for instance.
 
DebateChallenge said:
There are some people who support both gun rights and gay rights, the Pink Pistols for instance.
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I understand that. in American politics, it is hard to find a candidate who can win and represent all of one's views. If you support gay rights (I do) and gun rights (duh) I rarely can find a politician who supports both. Since Gun rights are more important to ME, I will choose an pro gun politician who is ambivalent to gay rights over a pro gay rights politician who is ambivalent or actually hostile to gun rights
 
AGENT J said:
nt surprising at all..
millions of americans dont know what an "assault rifle" is either or what an AR-15 actually is and why its "magically" more dangerous
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Because perception and emoting is more important than facts and logic.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
In real life, I would have no clue what you're trying to accomplish.
Here on DP, it doesn't take a law degree to suss that out:

You're trying to accomplish one thing and one thing only here on DP - - calling liberals poopyheads.
And you could spend another 40 years "with the anti gun movement in about every arena" I can think of but spending forty years sucking at something doesn't magically make you better at it.
I spent the last forty years sucking at carpentry, which is why I never bother trying to get in with the carpentry crews on films.
There's plenty of work for union carpenters on a set but I wouldn't last five minutes without being laughed off the set.

There's no such real life penalty for sucking on DP.
You will stick with your view of what motivates the gun grabbers?
OF COURSE YOU WILL!!! :lamo

I expected nothing less! Behold the suckage!

OF COURSE!!!!

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Gentlemen, we really should get along. After all, we all are for gun rights, and Im talking about Checkerboard Strangler, TurtleDude, and myself. We need to work together not against each other if we are to win the war on gun rights. We might not agree with each other on everything but we do agree about the Right to Keep And Bear Arms. This is one of the biggest problems of the gun rights community if you ask me, we fight too much among each other. United we stand divided we fall. We will be helping out the gun banning crowd big time if we're at each other's throats.
BTW Checkerboard Strangler, that video was hilarious.
 
TurtleDude said:
3) My goal isn't changing those who are committed to gun banning. My goal is to demonstrate their dishonesty
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Excuses 1 and 2 = You are afraid to take the bet.

#3 - - So if gun banners are just essentially dishonest people and "that's all there is to it" then pro-lifers are dishonest, and so are folks who are against the death penalty, so are people who are against pollution, so are people who are in favor of developing alternative energy, so are the electric car people, so is literally ANYONE who is trying to alter the status quo.

Sorry, but if your goal doesn't include trying to reach out and educate people, then everything else is just masturbation, because it can be proven in the wink of an eye that there are dishonest people in every aspect of politics. Big deal.
You could have proven that there are some dishonest people on that side of the issue in less than a day.

You're pushing pure dishonesty simply by implying that literally everyone in the gun ban club is just fundamentally dishonest.
The idea that NOBODY on that side of the discussion is even remotely honest in their views is not something a rational person would say.

I don't even like talking to gun banners but even I know that some of them are just people who are terrified of guns and don't want them around. I know for a fact that some of them are just people who simply think we can legislate our way out of the problem, and then, as if by magic, they think they will wake up in a gigantic gun-free zone stretching from L.A. to New York and all points in between.

They're not very bright or very reasonable, but I'd say that they were honest in their beliefs and honest in pursuit of their goals.
They think that they're going to somehow make this country 100% safe from gun violence if they can just pass the right laws.
They honestly think that this is somehow possible and they honestly believe it is a good thing that can realistically be accomplished, and that everyone will somehow be better off in the end.

It's a stupid point of view to be sure, but I can see how they might think it's honest, and even decent and moral, even if it really isn't honest, decent, moral or...worst of all, effective.

But it's not because they are fundamentally dishonest, it's because for these people, the quirks of human nature are not in evidence such that they would see the holes in their logic, that's all.

And I am now bored with talking about why you suck at your goals.
You just let me know when you want to try having a contest to see who is more effective at reaching these fringe people.
Just let me know.

Inside of one week's time, I wager I will have enlightened at least one of them, and you will have caused at least one of them to dig their heels in even deeper. You pick your target and I will pick mine, and I will stay away from yours and vice versa.

At the end of a week, you will have reverted to type...in fact, long before that.
You don't have the stomach for a rational discussion with anybody.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Gentlemen, we really should get along. After all, we all are for gun rights, and Im talking about Checkerboard Strangler, TurtleDude, and myself. We need to work together not against each other if we are to win the war on gun rights. We might not agree with each other on everything but we do agree about the Right to Keep And Bear Arms. This is one of the biggest problems of the gun rights community if you ask me, we fight too much among each other. United we stand divided we fall. We will be helping out the gun banning crowd big time if we're at each other's throats.
BTW Checkerboard Strangler, that video was hilarious.
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I do not count in TD's world despite being a lifelong gun owner.
That's because (A) I gave up my NRA membership and (B) I won't vote for Republicans.
So, there is no getting along.
I'd try but it is pointless.

I have tried, come to think of it, but....checking now....yeah, it WAS pointless! :lamo

I had a neighbor who saw me with my pistol in my back yard, and she called the police on me.
Naturally, since I had not discharged the weapon and I was in MY back yard, not out in front brandishing it or whatever other nonsense, I was within my rights, and the PD did nothing.

I actually managed to take her to the shooting range three months later and she actually squeezed off a few rounds.
She actually thought it was fun...AT THE RANGE, but she STILL believed that ordinary people should not be allowed to own guns.
By the time we moved away, she was considering purchasing one for home protection.
I'd sure love to know if she followed through.
It's certainly possible she reverted to type after we moved, but I don't think she'll ever forget how much fun she had at the range. I think Karen got through to her more than I did.
Unfair tactics. My wife IS a secret weapon.
 
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