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How to prevent a would-be killer with a clean slate from purchasing firearm

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MrFliop

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I think everyone from from both sides of the political spectrum can agree that all places that sell guns should have background check systems. However this is likely the only prevention against stopping a would-be killer. If a potential mass murderer can go their whole lives without showing signs of mental illness, uncontrollable rage or violence, or doesn’t give indications of violent ideas and plans then they can buy as many guns and ammo with no restrictions.

So here’s my question for all you: How could we prevent someone who is planning mass shooting yet has a clean slate from obtaining weapons legally?
 
MrFliop said:
I think everyone from from both sides of the political spectrum can agree that all places that sell guns should have background check systems. However this is likely the only prevention against stopping a would-be killer. If a potential mass murderer can go their whole lives without showing signs of mental illness, uncontrollable rage or violence, or doesn’t give indications of violent ideas and plans then they can buy as many guns and ammo with no restrictions.

So here’s my question for all you: How could we prevent someone who is planning mass shooting yet has a clean slate from obtaining weapons legally?
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Arrest all the guns and put them in solitary so they can't conspire with one another.

Seriously? As long as firearms exist it will continue to happen. What's worse when it does we as a society immediately hear it's the crazy people, the people with mental issues. We immediately pervasively demonize people with mental health problems sending the message they don't really matter it's a small number of lunatics.

So basically nothing will change no matter how many innocents are killed with a firearm.
 
MrFliop said:
I think everyone from from both sides of the political spectrum can agree that all places that sell guns should have background check systems.
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You are mistaken. No individual right should require a background check. Did you have a background check before making this post? Then why should I have a background check to purchase a firearm? Alaska, by the way, does not perform or require background checks and since the Supreme Court already ruled that universal background checks violated the Tenth Amendment of the US Constitution, there are no background checks performed on anyone who purchases a firearm in Alaska. Unless, of course, they make the serious mistake of buying their firearm from an FFL holder. The FFL holder is required to perform a federal background check, but they are easily avoided.

MrFliop said:
However this is likely the only prevention against stopping a would-be killer. If a potential mass murderer can go their whole lives without showing signs of mental illness, uncontrollable rage or violence, or doesn’t give indications of violent ideas and plans then they can buy as many guns and ammo with no restrictions.

So here’s my question for all you: How could we prevent someone who is planning mass shooting yet has a clean slate from obtaining weapons legally?
Click to expand...

That is an easy question to answer: You don't.

The way it works in reality, since it is an alien concept for you, is that first their must be a crime committed then and only then can someone be charged, tried, and either acquitted or convicted, and if convicted then sentenced. It is a little something we like to call "Due Process."
 
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MrFliop said:
I think everyone from from both sides of the political spectrum can agree that all places that sell guns should have background check systems. However this is likely the only prevention against stopping a would-be killer. If a potential mass murderer can go their whole lives without showing signs of mental illness, uncontrollable rage or violence, or doesn’t give indications of violent ideas and plans then they can buy as many guns and ammo with no restrictions.

So here’s my question for all you: How could we prevent someone who is planning mass shooting yet has a clean slate from obtaining weapons legally?
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we are going to have to accept at least some risk within this society
 
tacomancer said:
we are going to have to accept at least some risk within this society
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It seems fairly obvious that current casualty rates from gun violence do not constitute an acceptable level of risk to most Americans.
 
MrFliop said:
I think everyone from from both sides of the political spectrum can agree that all places that sell guns should have background check systems. However this is likely the only prevention against stopping a would-be killer. If a potential mass murderer can go their whole lives without showing signs of mental illness, uncontrollable rage or violence, or doesn’t give indications of violent ideas and plans then they can buy as many guns and ammo with no restrictions.

So here’s my question for all you: How could we prevent someone who is planning mass shooting yet has a clean slate from obtaining weapons legally?
Click to expand...

Yes background checks are find and should be in place, ive gotten one every time :shrug:

There is no "preventing it" its impossible

but im all for better enforcement of laws on the bocks now and any new sound laws that punish illegal activity with guns. Illegal transportation, distribution, sells, manufacturing etc Im also ok with working together and investigating how to incorporate mental health into the equation but thats not easy. I dont want so random that anything can be flagged and punished but over the years there have been some examples that we have missed, BUT those werent necessarily related to gun laws but more healthcare.
 
Irredentist said:
It seems fairly obvious that current casualty rates from gun violence do not constitute an acceptable level of risk to most Americans.
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really? when you get rid of those who cannot legally own guns killing other felons, and suicides, what do you think the death rate is?
 
MrFliop said:
I think everyone from from both sides of the political spectrum can agree that all places that sell guns should have background check systems. However this is likely the only prevention against stopping a would-be killer. If a potential mass murderer can go their whole lives without showing signs of mental illness, uncontrollable rage or violence, or doesn’t give indications of violent ideas and plans then they can buy as many guns and ammo with no restrictions.

So here’s my question for all you: How could we prevent someone who is planning mass shooting yet has a clean slate from obtaining weapons legally?
Click to expand...

you cannot without violating most of the bill of rights
 
TurtleDude said:
really? when you get rid of those who cannot legally own guns killing other felons, and suicides, what do you think the death rate is?
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Why stop there? Why not get rid of ALL gun deaths, then the total would be zero and we could go back to pretending gun violence isn't a problem.
 
Irredentist said:
Why stop there? Why not get rid of ALL gun deaths, then the total would be zero and we could go back to pretending gun violence isn't a problem.
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lets get rid of all traffic deaths, cancer deaths and heart attack deaths.

when you can do any of the above let us know
 
Glitch said:
You are mistaken. No individual right should require a background check. Did you have a background check before making this post? Then why should I have a background check to purchase a firearm? Alaska, by the way, does not perform or require background checks and since the Supreme Court already ruled that universal background checks violated the Tenth Amendment of the US Constitution, there are no background checks performed on anyone who purchases a firearm in Alaska. Unless, of course, they make the serious mistake of buying their firearm from an FFL holder. The FFL holder is required to perform a federal background check, but they are easily avoided.



That is an easy question to answer: You don't.

The way it works in reality, since it is an alien concept for you, is that first their must be a crime committed then and only then can someone be charged, tried, and either acquitted or convicted, and if convicted then sentenced. It is a little something we like to call "Due Process."
Click to expand...

I have the right to leave and return to this country.


But I have to pass a background check to get in
 
TurtleDude said:
lets get rid of all traffic deaths, cancer deaths and heart attack deaths.

when you can do any of the above let us know
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There are plenty of people actively working to reduce deaths from cars, guns, cancer, and heart disease. I guess they all must hate freedom and America.
 
Irredentist said:
There are plenty of people actively working to reduce deaths from cars, guns, cancer, and heart disease. I guess they all must hate freedom and America.
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most of those who want to restrict guns do. and most of those who are actively involved in anti gun movements only pretend that saving lives is their main motivation.
 
TurtleDude said:
most of those who want to restrict guns do. and most of those who are actively involved in anti gun movements only pretend that saving lives is their main motivation.
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I didn't seriously think that you had such a warped perspective, but ok. I don't believe that most people who want guns restricted hate America. They just hate guns, and there are plenty of valid reasons to feel that way. Guns are dangerous, no two ways about it, and we shouldn't let dangerous people have dangerous things, for obvious reasons.
 
Irredentist said:
I didn't seriously think that you had such a warped perspective, but ok. I don't believe that most people who want guns restricted hate America. They just hate guns, and there are plenty of valid reasons to feel that way. Guns are dangerous, no two ways about it, and we shouldn't let dangerous people have dangerous things, for obvious reasons.
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If you hate an inanimate object, I question your sanity. Everything harmful one can do with a gun is already illegal. Tell me why almost every single gun restrictionist or gun banner is a left winger?
 
Irredentist said:
I didn't seriously think that you had such a warped perspective, but ok. I don't believe that most people who want guns restricted hate America. They just hate guns, and there are plenty of valid reasons to feel that way. Guns are dangerous, no two ways about it, and we shouldn't let dangerous people have dangerous things, for obvious reasons.
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It's all politics for gun rubbers. They are almost all right wingers
 
TurtleDude said:
If you hate an inanimate object, I question your sanity. Everything harmful one can do with a gun is already illegal. Tell me why almost every single gun restrictionist or gun banner is a left winger?
Click to expand...

If you've been hurt by something, or seen others hurt by it, you will probably have a negative reaction to that thing in the future, doesn't take a genius to figure that out. I think that most people on all sides of the political spectrum support more restrictions on guns. You'd have to be willfully ignorant not to see that our society has too much gun violence. We may disagree on what exactly to do, but the idea that there's a problem is fairly universal. Unfortunately, a very vocal minority likes to hijack the discussion to claim that any action against guns makes us a totalitarian state. Which is pretty obviously false, but then this thinking isn't based on logic, but rather emotion, specifically, fear.
 
Irredentist said:
If you've been hurt by something, or seen others hurt by it, you will probably have a negative reaction to that thing in the future, doesn't take a genius to figure that out. I think that most people on all sides of the political spectrum support more restrictions on guns. You'd have to be willfully ignorant not to see that our society has too much gun violence. We may disagree on what exactly to do, but the idea that there's a problem is fairly universal. Unfortunately, a very vocal minority likes to hijack the discussion to claim that any action against guns makes us a totalitarian state. Which is pretty obviously false, but then this thinking isn't based on logic, but rather emotion, specifically, fear.
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smart people realize that those who are not deterred by the consequences of being convicted for committing major league felonies, are not going to be deterred by laws that only further restrict what lawful people can do.

NONE of current gun banner wet dreams, have any empirical basis for claiming such laws will decrease violent crime
 
Irredentist said:
It seems fairly obvious that current casualty rates from gun violence do not constitute an acceptable level of risk to most Americans.
Click to expand...

says who?
it most certainly does for me

at least to the point where i don't support any laws that punish me and other law abiding citizens while also endangering us all and empowering criminals

im fine with new gun laws and or better enforcement of current gun laws as long as its rational and will actually do something.

i always ask these three questions with any new ideas

Will it punish current illegal activity like illegal procession, activity, transportation, distribution, crimes and or manufacturing of guns?
Will it not punish me and other law abiding citizens and or endanger us?
Will it punish criminals and not empower them?
 
AGENT J said:
says who?
it most certainly does for me

at least to the point where i don't support any laws that punish me and other law abiding citizens while also endangering us all and empowering criminals

im fine with new gun laws and or better enforcement of current gun laws as long as its rational and will actually do something.

i always ask these three questions with any new ideas

Will it punish current illegal activity like illegal procession, activity, transportation, distribution, crimes and or manufacturing of guns?
Will it not punish me and other law abiding citizens and or endanger us?
Will it punish criminals and not empower them?
Click to expand...

Relax it's a form.



Not punishment



Oh the drama
 
TurtleDude said:
smart people realize that those who are not deterred by the consequences of being convicted for committing major league felonies, are not going to be deterred by laws that only further restrict what lawful people can do.

NONE of current gun banner wet dreams, have any empirical basis for claiming such laws will decrease violent crime
Click to expand...

Of course there's empirical basis. It's simple economics, if the supply of guns goes down, the price will go up. If guns are more expensive, fewer people will be able to afford them, and this includes criminals. The availability of guns on the black market is directly tied to how easy it is to acquire legal guns, and then resell them to criminals. Remember, almost all illegal guns were produced and sold legally at least once. So if legal guns are harder to get, so will illegal ones be.
 
vegas giants said:
Relax it's a form.



Not punishment



Oh the drama
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oh boy this will fun watching this huge fail


did you quote the wrong person . . what the hell are you talking about? lol

:popcorn2:
 
AGENT J said:
oh boy this will fun watching this huge fail


did you quote the wrong person . . what the hell are you talking about? lol

:popcorn2:
Click to expand...

Relax.....
 
vegas giants said:
Relax.....
Click to expand...

BAM!!! called that perfectly LOL

let me know when you figure out what you are talking about and can post with honesty and integrity and admit your factual mistake, thanks!
 
Irredentist said:
Of course there's empirical basis. It's simple economics, if the supply of guns goes down, the price will go up. If guns are more expensive, fewer people will be able to afford them, and this includes criminals. The availability of guns on the black market is directly tied to how easy it is to acquire legal guns, and then resell them to criminals. Remember, almost all illegal guns were produced and sold legally at least once. So if legal guns are harder to get, so will illegal ones be.
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how is the supply of guns going down with

400 million at least in America

the US government and state governments buying and supplying everyone from desk bound cops to poultry inspectors with high tec handguns

the military losing 15K automatic rifles a year

the world market with millions upon millions of recently "obsolete" weapons for sale

a porous border of thousands of miles in a country with substantive constitutional prohibitions on police investigations, warrantless searches etc

a country where more people have access to machine tools, CNC machinery and 3D printers than any other country in the world.
 
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