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Universal BG Check Could Have Saved Lives

calamity

calamity

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As we've said here for years, we need to close the gun show/private sale loophole.

The West Texas man who killed seven people and wounded 25 in a shooting rampage bought his gun in a private sale, which doesn't require a background check, a law enforcement official told CNN.

Police have described the firearm Seth Ator, 36, used in Saturday's killing spree in and around Odessa, Texas, as an AR-15-style rifle.

Ator tried to buy a firearm on January 14, 2014, but wasn't allowed to, the Texas Department of Public Safety told CNN in an email.

West Texas shooter bought gun in private sale - CNN
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Universal Background checks would have prevented this sale, and it very well may have saved the lives of seven dead people and prevented 25 others from being wounded.
 
calamity said:
As we've said here for years, we need to close the gun show/private sale loophole.



Universal Background checks would have prevented this sale, and it very well may have saved the lives of seven dead people and prevented 25 others from being wounded.
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you're just making that up. You are assuming all or most private sellers would conduct a background check and that the government can actually enforce that. the vast majority of criminals get their firearms from people who know they are criminals and only the truly naive believe that someone willing and intending to commit mass murders are going to be deterred by a background check UNLESS those denied a firearm are then arrested for committing perjury on form 4473
 
TurtleDude said:
you're just making that up. You are assuming all or most private sellers would conduct a background check and that the government can actually enforce that. the vast majority of criminals get their firearms from people who know they are criminals and only the truly naive believe that someone willing and intending to commit mass murders are going to be deterred by a background check UNLESS those denied a firearm are then arrested for committing perjury on form 4473
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If I choose to buy a gun, it will likely be from one of my friends who own several already. They know me and several have already offered, I just haven't taken them up on it to date.

In order for any "plan" to force privates sales to comply with a background check one would have to know the seller has guns, then how many and of what type.

Absent gun registration, who's to know I bought one then? I'm certainly not going to tell who I got a gun from if and when I do. IMO it's none of anyone's business because it's my right, and I will exercise it as I see fit.

Beyond that, criminals certainly don't care about adhering to any law, whether it be registration or sales. The only point would be to control joe citizen's access and right to keep and bear.
 
Captain Adverse said:
If I choose to buy a gun, it will likely be from one of my friends who own several already. They know me and several have already offered, I just haven't taken them up on it to date.

In order for any "plan" to force privates sales to comply with a background check one would have to know the seller has guns, then how many and of what type.

Absent gun registration, who's to know I bought one then? I'm certainly not going to tell who I got a gun from if and when I do. IMO it's none of anyone's business because it's my right, and I will exercise it as I see fit.

Beyond that, criminals certainly don't care about adhering to any law, whether it be registration or sales. The only point would be to control joe citizen's access and right to keep and bear.
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I have stated-in at least 50 posts, that UBGCs cannot be enforced without registration of almost all CURRENTLY owned guns. Those who want registration, push for this useless BGC law because they know it will fail, and then they can claim the failure is due to the lack of registration

perhaps the most moronic suggestion was some poster wanted a DATA base where anyone who owns a gun -even if he bought it 30 years ago-would have to go and get a background check and this name would go into a data base. And if the cops caught someone with a gun-even someone who had a clean record-who wasn't in that data base-they would be arrested. When I asked him why it isn't sufficient for the cops to arrest people caught with guns who have records (which the same data base already has) he couldn't tell me
 
calamity said:
As we've said here for years, we need to close the gun show/private sale loophole.



Universal Background checks would have prevented this sale, and it very well may have saved the lives of seven dead people and prevented 25 others from being wounded.
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[bold by me]. - Your assumption of if universal background checks were the law of the land, all private sellers would use that process is flawed. You have no way of proven that all sellers would conduct the background search. imo, people intent on doing mass harm will find a way regardless of what laws are in place.
 
mike2810 said:
[bold by me]. - Your assumption of if universal background checks were the law of the land, all private sellers would use that process is flawed. You have no way of proven that all sellers would conduct the background search. imo, people intent on doing mass harm will find a way regardless of what laws are in place.
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someone dies of a drug overdose and I am sure some will say that if all drugs being sold required a prescription, the OD would have never have happened
 
TurtleDude said:
someone dies of a drug overdose and I am sure some will say that if all drugs being sold required a prescription, the OD would have never have happened
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Pretty much. Same person needs to explain why we still have robberies when it is against the law to do so. :lamo
 
why do anti gun posters continue to lie that there is a gun show loophole?
 
calamity said:
As we've said here for years, we need to close the gun show/private sale loophole.



Universal Background checks would have prevented this sale, and it very well may have saved the lives of seven dead people and prevented 25 others from being wounded.
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Playing politics on the bodies of seven dead Americans is not one of your finest moments, cal.
 
If only we would pass laws against murdering people think of all the lives we could save.
 
calamity said:
As we've said here for years, we need to close the gun show/private sale loophole.



Universal Background checks would have prevented this sale, and it very well may have saved the lives of seven dead people and prevented 25 others from being wounded.
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Universal bedchecks could have worked.
 
calamity said:
As we've said here for years, we need to close the gun show/private sale loophole.


Universal Background checks would have prevented this sale, and it very well may have saved the lives of seven dead people and prevented 25 others from being wounded.
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Enforcing the existing law by prosecuting him for trying to buy a gun for which he failed the background check could have saved lives.
 
TurtleDude said:
I have stated-in at least 50 posts, that UBGCs cannot be enforced without registration of almost all CURRENTLY owned guns.
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I realize that Dems want UBCs because they really want registration, but is your statement really true? What if the police simply conducted stings and arresting sellers who sell without a background check (which could be done using an online system -- no need to involve or pay a fee to licensed dealers)? How many people would risk selling to someone without first getting the check done?
 
calamity said:
As we've said here for years, we need to close the gun show/private sale loophole.



Universal Background checks would have prevented this sale, and it very well may have saved the lives of seven dead people and prevented 25 others from being wounded.
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So he was denied the purchase of a firearm, and then decided to purchase one from another seller who was supposed to be as diligent. Only to be a willing participant in a straw purchase?

Yeah, laws need more enforcement. That's probably one of the largest issues that we have at this point, when gin violence is to be considered.
 
calamity said:
As we've said here for years, we need to close the gun show/private sale loophole.



Universal Background checks would have prevented this sale, and it very well may have saved the lives of seven dead people and prevented 25 others from being wounded.
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Why wasn't he arrested when he failed the background check in the first place?

Also, how you know he obtained the rifle through a private sale? Who was the seller and how much did he pay?
 
calamity said:
As we've said here for years, we need to close the gun show/private sale loophole.



Universal Background checks would have prevented this sale, and it very well may have saved the lives of seven dead people and prevented 25 others from being wounded.
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That (bolded above) assertion is pure BS since you have no idea when, where or how that sale took place or even who made that sale. If the shooter was trying to illegally buy a (that?) gun since 2014 it is highly unlikely that a UBGC law would have stopped every attempt to get a (that?) gun.

The official spoke to The Associated Press Tuesday on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to discuss an ongoing investigation. The person did not say when and where the private sale took place.
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West Texas shooter failed background check, bought gun legally at private sale - MarketWatch
 
We need extensive background checks on every single gun purchase or transfer from one owner to another and there should be no exceptions.
 
The key reason these arguments fail is assumptions of the person wanting to do these things.

We do not know that a flagged background check would result in this person going home and forgetting all about their plans, and we do not know that restrictions on a particular gun would have removed this person's intentions to obtain one anyway even if by illegal means.

We might be able to assume that the more difficult it is to obtain a gun means the more time that person has to think about how far they are willing to go in order to follow through with plans like this but that may be all we can assume.

Just angry, irrational, insane in some regard, we can argue all day long about the what could haves or should haves but ultimately we have a much larger problem in why someone is willing to go out and cause so much harm. Universal background checks, modification restrictions, gun type restrictions, ammunition type or quantity limitations, even outright gun prohibitions does nothing to address the willingness of the person willing to commit dozens of crimes anyway in some effort to harm as many as possible as quickly as possible.

We have convinced ourselves that these measures solves the problem, and we have no real evidence that someone this willing to harm will all of a sudden stay home. Worse we make a horrible assumption that any form of legislation designed to deal with guns will be applied equally no matter how the effort is worded, history tells us otherwise as application of law tends to allow things for some that are not allowed for others.

Someone so motivated to harm so many, that is what we need to focus on... because ultimately they are still around.
 
Tlrmln said:
Enforcing the existing law by prosecuting him for trying to buy a gun for which he failed the background check could have saved lives.
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Trump refuses to enforce the federal law
 
Casper said:
Link.....
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Uh....name one person he has had arrested for failing a background check. Enforcement of this law is under his total control
 
And, of course, all the usual suspects are against it. I guess it matters not how many people die. The faithful will never admit that our laws are too lax.
 
vegas giants said:
Uh....name one person he has had arrested for failing a background check. Enforcement of this law is under his total control
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You think this started under trump? But yes, arrest those that fail the check, see we agree on something.
 
Casper said:
You think this started under trump? But yes, arrest those that fail the check, see we agree on something.
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It's on trump now. But you are right no one will do it.


Hey here's an idea....maybe we need a better law that we can actually enforce!
 
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