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Brefore & After stats assault weapons ban. THE TRUTH.

Exactly, so what makes your cherry-picked subset of mass shooting data relevant and using all mass shooting data not relevant?

Your approach is to start with a proposed solution and then define (redefine?) the problem to best suit it.

dishonesty in the posts of anti gun advocates? Orlando didn't use an AR 15 BTW. and where is VA Tech? Where is Luby's of Texas? where is Fort Hood? where is Dylan Roof's killing a bunch of peaceful church folk?

Did you notice his list included VA Tech where the shooter used handguns with TEN ROUND MAGAZINES-in other words, weapons not even touched by the Clinton Gun ban. same with Fort Hood.

I doubt the OP even understands that fact
 
30,000 plus homicide shootings annually is not mass killing? Really?

Quit making my case for me. Hey, I was only talking about assault weapons but if you want to include all guns in the ban, given your deadly evidence, we can discuss it. You have a point that all guns are good for killing and are the preferred weapon for murderers.

The distinction between "regular" guns and assault weapons is that they are designed to be extra deadly. That's why the military uses them, because they deserve as much death for their dollar that they can get.

And what is the left doing to stop the violence in the mostly run democrat cities?


You can't be both pro-gun and anti-violence, ultimately. The gun is the very superlative tool of interpersonal human violence. In each of the murders you may list in those "democrat cities", you would also as readily claim that one of the parties could, or SHOULD, have justifiably killed the other in self defense, right? So the utility of guns for murder is not a surprise to you is it? And, certainly you're not naive enough to think that banning guns locally has any effect on their availability for those who can travel just a few miles. Don't bring up cities in a discussion of a problem on the federal level. It makes you look dumb.

Besides, I had no idea that, with their perpetual pro-gun, pro-war, pro-police, pro-authoritarianism politics, that the right was against violence. I mean, what are all your fantasies about, if not past or future violence? What is the implied consequence of ignoring your authority if not violence? What are you arming yourselves for if not violence?


There are hundreds of laws in the books besides possessions of illegal handguns so I don’t understand your point.
Over 60% of the 30,000 shootings homicides are committed by illegal guns. Why doesn’t the left care about them?

Yeah, like I said, most "illegal" guns are previously legal guns. Reducing the number of legal weapons will reduce the illegal ones automatically. By that standard, the left is the ONLY side doing anything about illegal guns. The republican answer is, of course, the police state, which is a pretty disturbing drone to hear coming from the party of "freedom" lovers. Oh yeah, conservatives only want freedom for money, not people. If people were shooting the money the right would be beside themselves with dissonance. Fortunately, it's just poor people being killed.
 
I see...you want to talk fairy tales. IF

Heroin is illegal. Thank goodness we dont have heroin available. Right? I could list ALL of the illegal drugs but the simple fact is that a ban on illegal substance hasnt stopped people from getting drugs.

In Australia there have been more mass murders SINCE the 1996 gun ban than PRIOR TO the 1996 gun ban. Hmmmmm....wait...that cant be right, can it?

You bet it is.

In London where guns are illegal they have seen huge increasing in stabbing deaths, acid attacks, but luckily...no guns because that would be illegal.

Except...
Gun crime in London increases by 42%
Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News'

In the immortal words of my old stepmother...."wellllllll......****"

Right? Because bans dont work, fairy tales arent real, we HAVE guns...lots of guns...and the Constitution guarantees that we will always have guns and anyone that doesn't like it can eat ****. Or by all means...get busy trying to change the Constitution.

and the real clincher-it is hard to believe any of the posters who constantly whine about the second amendment or American gun ownership, are actually motivated by saving innocent life given that almost all their hatred is directed not against violent criminals or nihilistic nut case active shooters, but rather against lawful gun owners, the NRA and pro gun rights politicians.
 
30,000 plus homicide shootings annually is not mass killing? Really?

And what is the left doing to stop the violence in the mostly run democrat cities?

There are hundreds of laws in the books besides possessions of illegal handguns so I don’t understand your point.
Over 60% of the 30,000 shootings homicides are committed by illegal guns. Why doesn’t the left care about them?

actually there are about 33K firearms related deaths each year

2/3 are suicide. of the remaining 11K, about 8-9 thousand are felons (people who cannot own guns) committing murder (most murder victims are also mopes), accidental deaths or justifiable homicides or excusable homicides. (so that leaves about 2-3 thousand homicides committed by someone who was legally able to own the gun at the time of the killing
 
I should think these stats would be enough for common sense to prevail. Apparently, on the right, common sense is in short supply.

View attachment 67262986

Adam Best on Twitter: "Poway: AR-15
Aurora: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15"



There is a dynamic to this that the right is not capable of grasping, and that is the gun fetish culture that is driving assualts with the AR-15. These guns give gun fetishers erections, they
pose with them on the internet, even let their kids pose with them. Because during the ban these weapons
of war were not available, and given that other guns were available, as the stats prove, the boring hunting rifles were not used hardly at all. Why? Because these gun nuts are bored with boring looking and less than human efficient killing machine guns, they were not "inspired" to assault in mass shootings.

Banning then literally takes the wind out of the sails of the gun fetish crowd, of which these mass murderers are like viruses springing from this poisoned pond.


The right consistently argues that banning assault weapons will not reduce mass murderers, because those intent on killing masses of people will find other weapons.

A few will, but since most are inspired by these bad ass killing machines, the overall numbers will drop, as the assault gun fetishers will lose availability of their 'muse', and human lives will be saved. The stats prove it, there is no other explanation that I can think of.

Even if this explanation is pure conjecture, the stats prove that the ban will save lives. Just on the naked hard data alone, common sense is that they should be banned for civilian use.
How many assaults committed with fully automatic rifles ( not talking' bump stock ) ? Zero? Why? Fed regs put a lot of hurdles in the path of ownership of these weapons, and even
though they are not completely banned, acquiring them is expensive and difficult. in short, FED REGS WORK!!! Localized bans do not work. It's like a restaurant I once knew of, during the 90s, ( before the full on smoking ban) put a non smoking section consisting of one table, right in the center of the restaurant. I.e., localized banning is absurd, because the surrounding areas make it a moot point. Similarly, localized bans do not work. If banned in one state, crims can go to the adjacent state where they are not banned and acquire them. This is why FED REGs are the only way to achieve this so as to save lives.

No, we can't ban matches or cars, and IEDs, but we can ban weapons of war, and the public demands it.

Vote for dems during the next election, dems will do something about it. Repubs will not. They are beholden to gun manufacturers

You're not telling the truth. There were 55 school shootings between 1994 and 2004.
 
You're not telling the truth. There were 55 school shootings between 1994 and 2004.

listing VA tech shows how little he understands. The weapons used by Choi were two handguns with ten round magazines. Fort Hood was similar.
 
Quit making my case for me. Hey, I was only talking about assault weapons but if you want to include all guns in the ban, given your deadly evidence, we can discuss it. You have a point that all guns are good for killing and are the preferred weapon for murderers.

The distinction between "regular" guns and assault weapons is that they are designed to be extra deadly. That's why the military uses them, because they deserve as much death for their dollar that they can get.




You can't be both pro-gun and anti-violence, ultimately. The gun is the very superlative tool of interpersonal human violence. In each of the murders you may list in those "democrat cities", you would also as readily claim that one of the parties could, or SHOULD, have justifiably killed the other in self defense, right? So the utility of guns for murder is not a surprise to you is it? And, certainly you're not naive enough to think that banning guns locally has any effect on their availability for those who can travel just a few miles. Don't bring up cities in a discussion of a problem on the federal level. It makes you look dumb.

Besides, I had no idea that, with their perpetual pro-gun, pro-war, pro-police, pro-authoritarianism politics, that the right was against violence. I mean, what are all your fantasies about, if not past or future violence? What is the implied consequence of ignoring your authority if not violence? What are you arming yourselves for if not violence?




Yeah, like I said, most "illegal" guns are previously legal guns. Reducing the number of legal weapons will reduce the illegal ones automatically. By that standard, the left is the ONLY side doing anything about illegal guns. The republican answer is, of course, the police state, which is a pretty disturbing drone to hear coming from the party of "freedom" lovers. Oh yeah, conservatives only want freedom for money, not people. If people were shooting the money the right would be beside themselves with dissonance. Fortunately, it's just poor people being killed.

What a dumb statement to think everyone that is pro gun is pro violence.
It’s even dumber to think the federal government is going to step in to fix the problems in the intercity including getting illegal guns off the streets. There are state and municipal governments.
 
Again we see the anti-gunners indifference to assault, rape and murder.

Can they name how many times - of the over 1,000,000 violent crimes per year - the victim of violent assault, rape or murder was armed? No. They don't care about victims of violence.

Do they care that trying to enforce just ONE instance of someone having an alleged actual assault weapon (full auto) resulted in the end in 250 killed and over 680 crippled/wounded, with over a billion dollars in property damage? No, they don't care. That was just ONE instance of trying to enforce an anti-gun law.

Of those killed, only ONE was alleged to have an illegal. Most were not killed by guns, but by poison gas and a bomb. Most killed were innocent bystanders. Most killed were women and children. Most killed were government people, not civilians.,

Never, not once, will any anti-gunner say how many lives they will sacrifice on a gun ban. They will never say how many more rapes, violent assaults, kidnappings and murders they claim are justified in banning guns. They do not say how many more prisons they want built, how many more police they want, and how many more criminal organizations are acceptable.

Gun control has nothing to do with saving lives. If the laws they want get passed, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people killed, they don't care. The fact that violent crimes and murder goes up where anti-gun laws are enacted is irrelevant to them. Between a woman being kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered - or the woman having a gun to avoid this - they pick the the woman's death. It is only about guns, not about violence and murder.
 
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THIS is what the OPer deliberately left out in his claim the "assault ban" being lifted lead to mass shootings:

The Gun-Free School Zones Act (1990) is an act of the U.S. Congress prohibiting any unauthorized individual from knowingly possessing a loaded or unsecured firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(25). The law applies to public, private, and parochial elementary schools and high schools, and to non-private property within 1000 feet of them. It provides that the states and their political subdivisions may issue licenses that exempt the licensed individuals from the prohibition.

With this, Gun Free Zone signs started going up everywhere else too. State laws prohibit guns in churches. Businesses started putting up advertising for mass shooters too. Where guns are banned is where most mass shootings occur. Vegas shooter. Pulse Night Club. All school shootings - nearly all at locations where firearms were banned.

School mass shootings were created by the anti-gun rights "Gun Free Zone" signs and most mass shooting happen in "gun free zones" because they advertise for mass shooters assuring the shooter is safe.


Anti-gun laws bring violence, rape, murder and mass murder. That is the statistical fact.
 
I always marvel at the number of antigun people that draw the connection between guns and penises...porn...other sexual identities. Seriously dood...thats...you...its not gun owners. You got weird **** on your brain.

Thanks for the strawman, but no thanks.
 
Thanks for the strawman, but no thanks.
:lamo

You are the one that is literally fetishising firearm ownership and dreaming about gun owners and penises.

Like I said...its not a pretty look for you. I KNOW you people think you are being witty when you constantly talk about guns and dicks...but really...all you are doing is 'exposing' yourselves. Frankly...I think looking back on this thread you probably are regretting ever starting the foolish thing because every you have posted from beginning to end has been crap, junk science, or just outright lies. And everyone knows it.
 
It's the black vote thing.

Over Labor Day weekend, 43 shot and 7 killed by gun violence in Chicago. Not even a mention in the MSM.

This is about making guns a political tool they can use to leverage power.


I'll tell you why. Donald Trump and mass shootings are sucking up all the oxygen.

Since the advent of cable news, and the shift from news as a public service ( the good ol' days of broadcast news, Cronkite, Brinkley, etc ) to news for profit, ratings are now important, and Trump and mass shootings
bring in the viewers, and as long as that is true, well, you have your answer. One solution is a government take over of cable, make it one big NPR styled TV, and get back to responsible news coverage. But, last time i checked, repubs don't like socialistic solutions.

Guns in urban areas are the flowering of poverty/drugs and that vicious cycle.

If you are going to say cut taxes for the wealthy and let it trickle down, because, as Reagan said, 'a rising tide lifts all boats", well, apparently Reagan didn't notice that not every one has a boat.

I say a negative income tax to 133% and rent assistance, and drug rehabs for the addicts, and make drugs legal and distributed freely to addicts who elect to undergo treatment, to wean off of them under medical supervision under a quarantined zone. Then programs to get them on the road to recovery and productive citizens. I'd also like to see, on top of the above, a ban on handguns for civilians and confiscation of all handguns in America. Of course, it won't happen over night, but if we set our sights in that direction, eventually we could get there. Crimes committed with fully automatic rifles are few, if any, which, in my view, proves that regulation at the federal level can work.

If you have a better idea, please enlighten us.
 
:lamo

You are the one that is literally fetishising firearm ownership and dreaming about gun owners and penises.

Thanks for the strawman, but no thanks.

You did it again, strike two.

If you don't believe it, then provide evidence of your claim, and I want "literal" ON POINT evidence, since that is what you are claiming.
 
Thanks for the strawman, but no thanks.

You did it again, strike two.

If you don't believe it, then provide evidence of your claim, and I want "literal" ON POINT evidence, since that is what you are claiming.

Oh sweet irony, you know this post doesn't work since your OP was dishonest and instantly failed right? like i said its counterproductive to post lies and group everybody in the right together. ANd im an independent and a guy who has been told by some of the hardcore people around here that id ont support guns lol
 
Thanks for the strawman, but no thanks.

You did it again, strike two.

If you don't believe it, then provide evidence of your claim, and I want "literal" ON POINT evidence, since that is what you are claiming.
:lamo

I have spent this thread trashing your 'points' just as pretty much everyone else. It is obvious from the outset that other than regurgitating some **** someone else spoon fed you, you literally know nothing about the gun ban from 21994-2004 nor do you have a clue as to the actual results or lack thereof. Everything you have posted has been ridiculous, a lie, or just plain wrong...and its been clearly shown. ALL you are left with is your weird little gun/penis fetish fantasies.
 
I should think these stats would be enough for common sense to prevail. Apparently, on the right, common sense is in short supply.

View attachment 67262986


There are two problems with those stats.

1. Going by the Brady Assault weapons ban semiautomatic firearms that did not have certain cosmetic features were not banned. So if someone made an AR15 modern sporting rifle without the bayonet lug and the flash suppressor and gave it a different name then it was not an assault weapon according to the Brady Assault Weapons ban. That is what gun manufacturers did. AR15 modern sporting rifles and various other semiautomatic firearms all of a sudden being allowed to have bayonet lugs, flash suppressors and other scary cosmetic features did not cause mass shootings to go up as your idiotic chart would falsely claim.So any claim of the assault weapons ban contributing to lower amount of mass shootings is utterly false. Also the majority of mass shootings do not involve the use of semiautomatic rifles defined as assault weapons.

These links back up the fact that the only thing the Brady Assault weapons ban accomplished was semiautomatic firearms being made without 2 or more cosmetic features that deemed them to be assault weapons.
If you have CBS all Access
What Assault Weapons Ban? - CBS News
If you don't
http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Books and News/What Assault Weapons Ban?/


2.Columbine wasn't the only mass shooting. between 1994 to 2004.
I am going by the 4 or more killed during a single incident definition of a mass shooting.But if you want to go by the liberal anti-2nd amendment trash definition of mass shootings then there is a lot more than these.
List of mass shootings in the United States - Wikipedia
2000 Richard Baumhammers killing spree 5 murder victims
2000 Wendy's massacre 5 murder victims
2000 Wafefeild massacre 7 murder victims
2003 Lockheed Martin shooting 7 murder victims
2004 Wesson family murders 9 murder victims
List of mass shootings in the United States - Wikipedia
1998 Westside Middle School 5 murder victims
1998 Thurston High School shooting 4 murder victims
1999 Day-trading firms shooting 13 murder victims
1999 Wedgewiid Baptist Church shooting 8 murder victims
1999 Xerox Murders 7 murder victims
 
The defect in your argument, my friend, is that he isn't wrong. It may be true that other modes of murder happen too (which is obviously beside the point), but that does not obviate the reality that assault weapons are more deadly than other - even other semi-automatic - weapons. How many "mass bludgeonings" have occurred this century?
That is completely false.According the Brady Assault weapons ban the top is not an assault weapon and the bottom one is an assault weapon. How does the top one not having a flash suppressor and bayonet lug make it less deadly than the one on the bottom that does have those things? Or how does any other semiautomatic firearm that uses the same type of ammo any less deadly than a AR15 style modern sporting rifle?


Which is an assault weapon.jpg
 
actually there are about 33K firearms related deaths each year

2/3 are suicide. of the remaining 11K, about 8-9 thousand are felons (people who cannot own guns) committing murder (most murder victims are also mopes), accidental deaths or justifiable homicides or excusable homicides. (so that leaves about 2-3 thousand homicides committed by someone who was legally able to own the gun at the time of the killing

This is why anti-2nd amendment trash lump in homicides and suicides together. They know there are people out there who don't realize that anti-2nd amendment trash are dishonest pieces of **** and will think thats 30 something thousand people getting murdered each year instead of only ten to fourteen thousand a year getting murdered each year.
 
That is completely false.According the Brady Assault weapons ban the top is not an assault weapon and the bottom one is an assault weapon. How does the top one not having a flash suppressor and bayonet lug make it less deadly than the one on the bottom that does have those things? Or how does any other semiautomatic firearm that uses the same type of ammo any less deadly than a AR15 style modern sporting rifle?


View attachment 67263030

Except, your claim is completely wrong. Both are assault weapons under the act. I'm not sure where you scared up this fraudulent meme, but it is inaccurate. Inclusion of a flash suppressor, for example, is an element, but not a required element, nor an exclusive element. Whoever created the meme can't read legislation.
 
Well, your freedom to purchase a fully automatic weapon is restricted

Your freedom to own an atomic bomb is restricted.

If freedom is your argument, well, you can see that the freedom argument is absurd. Because...

SCOTUS has ruled, I believe, that no right is absolute.

Your argument regarding alcohol is a strawman.

The restriction of fully automatic weapons did not lead to the worse state of affairs that prohibition of liquor did, nor did the ban on an assault weapons.

Therefore, we can ban assault weapons without creating an environment that would be worse than the cure, as would be the case with liquor.

But I didn't suggest banning all liquor. Just shot glasses. If banning only shot glasses would save even a few lives per year, would you be in favor of a shot glass ban? If not, why not?
 
Except, your claim is completely wrong. Both are assault weapons under the act. I'm not sure where you scared up this fraudulent meme, but it is inaccurate. Inclusion of a flash suppressor, for example, is an element, but not a required element, nor an exclusive element. Whoever created the meme can't read legislation.

It is not a meme nor is what I said fraudulent. Both are not assault weapons. In order for a rifle to be an assault weapon according to the 1994 Assault weapons ban it has to be semiautomatic, magazine fed and have two or more of the following- Folding or telescoping stock, Pistol grip, Bayonet mount, Flash hider or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one and or Grenade launcher. The colt AR15 was banned by name only. So making the rifle without two or more of those features and renaming it made the AR15 comply with the Federal Assault weapons ban. 60 minutes did a episode on these facts.

Federal Assault Weapons Ban - WikipediaDefinition of assault weapon

Under the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, the definition of "assault weapon" included specific semi-automatic firearm models by name, and other semi-automatic firearms that possessed two or more from a set certain features:[14]

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash hider or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud safety feature that prevents burns to the operator
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Detachable magazine.


What Assault Weapons Ban? - CBS News

The transcript to the 60 minutes episode if you do not have the CBS all access member ship.
http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Books and News/What Assault Weapons Ban?/
 
The defect in your argument, my friend, is that he isn't wrong. It may be true that other modes of murder happen too (which is obviously beside the point), but that does not obviate the reality that assault weapons are more deadly than other - even other semi-automatic - weapons. How many "mass bludgeonings" have occurred this century?

That assault rifles are more deadly than smaller arms is a myth. Assault rifles are not more deadly than handguns. They are, in fact, less deadly. Handguns are much easier to conceal and they fire a larger caliber round that is more likely to mushroom and remain inside a victim than the smaller caliber assault rifle rounds which more often than not pass straight through an unarmored victim when fired at close range, creating a much narrower wound channel and greatly simplifying medical treatment.

The reason assault rifles are used in war is primarily due to their longer range, and their ability to pierce light armor, taking an enemy combatant out of the fight even if he isn't killed. The weapon of a soldier out to neutralize an enemy combatant is an assault rifle. The weapon of a murderer out to kill a civilian at close range is a hand gun. A mass-murderer who uses an assault rifle is using a less effective weapon than one who uses several concealed handguns.
 
"But there are other ways to be killed" is one of the most stupidly dishonest moves people make in the gun control debate. It also relies on a principle - if something cannot be completely fixed with a law, nothing should be done - that not one single one of the people who utter it would apply it universally, even to anything else. It is used to try to destroy the debate with clouds of smoke and muddy water.

And you know what? I'd much rather deal with a man armed with a knife or a bat than I would a man with a gun of any time.

The main problem here is that gun advocates refuse to debate on equal terms. They want no compromise. They want all the guns, no restrictions. They want the 2nd to be the only unlimited constitutional right. So their entire game is not ceding ground; one way that plays out is to demand to know what counts as an "assault weapon" or "assault rifle", then declare all definitions offered as false. They're not actually trying to work with you on it, they're just trying to demoralize you into giving up.

If we were all going to have an honest debate, we would first assess the Heller and McDonald's decision. If we agree that they got it generally right in Heller (and I do), then we would be left with a situation in which the right to bear arms is individual and that it's core is bearing arms for self-defense (with self-defense against tyrannical government being a subset), and looser hunting concerns.

We would then ask "ok, what is reasonably necessary for self-defense, and what isn't?" This would likely lead to a scheme where high-capacity magazines and rifles designed specifically for killing lots of people quickly are not protected by the 2nd.

Why? Well, what is the probability you will have to defend yourself with hundreds of rounds? Are you perhaps a drug dealer facing off with another gang? Right...handguns are generally preferred for defense in public. Handgun/shotgun at home. You don't need an AR-15, which is basically an M-16 without full auto, to defend yourself. People who have them have them for "fun". Etc. There is not much reason other than "fun" to own most of the semi-auto rifles people seem to gravitate towards. Yet propose to limit those, and "OMG Obama's gonna take mah guns!"

But whatever. This debate isn't going to budge based on reason. It'll only budge as younger generations come into power, and then, the change will be via force of law. I suspect that gun owner's current approach will work out very badly for them in the long run. They'll win right up until they lose by way of demographics.

The issue for me isn't whether or not a thing is necessary or whether or not it is deadly. It is whether or not the number of fatalities that result from the misuse of said thing vs the number of people who take enjoyment from it warrants banning the thing. This is why I compare second amendment issues to alcohol. Drinkable alcohol is objectively more deadly than firearms in America. More than three times more deadly, last I checked. It is also completely unnecessary for anyone to drink alcohol. But some people enjoy the freedom to do it. How many lives are worth the freedom to drink responsibly? No one needs to do shots. How many fatal car accidents are worth allowing otherwise law-abiding adults to do shots at their local bar?

America is a fascinating study on the consequences of the second amendment. Many interpret those consequences as terrible and proof that firearms should be restricted. A list of all the people killed by firearms would be depressing. But not anywhere near as depressing as a list of all the people killed by alcohol. When other countries use America as a cautionary tale about the danger of legal firearms, I can't help but wonder how they reconcile the much higher numbers of deaths that result from legal drinking. Most of those countries enjoy liberal drinking laws. How does it make sense to take a stand for saving lives by banning dangerous pastimes without being in favor of an alcohol ban as well?
 
It is not a meme nor is what I said fraudulent. Both are not assault weapons. In order for a rifle to be an assault weapon according to the 1994 Assault weapons ban it has to be semiautomatic, magazine fed and have two or more of the following- Folding or telescoping stock, Pistol grip, Bayonet mount, Flash hider or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one and or Grenade launcher. The colt AR15 was banned by name only. So making the rifle without two or more of those features and renaming it made the AR15 comply with the Federal Assault weapons ban. 60 minutes did a episode on these facts.

Federal Assault Weapons Ban - WikipediaDefinition of assault weapon

Under the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, the definition of "assault weapon" included specific semi-automatic firearm models by name, and other semi-automatic firearms that possessed two or more from a set certain features:[14]

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash hider or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud safety feature that prevents burns to the operator
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Detachable magazine.


What Assault Weapons Ban? - CBS News

The transcript to the 60 minutes episode if you do not have the CBS all access member ship.
http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Books and News/What Assault Weapons Ban?/
Not to mention the fact that all weapons owned or manufactured prior to the initial date of the ban were grandfathered and still legal for sale and transfer...and we never ran out of those weapons.
 
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