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Has the # of murders in schools gone up or down since "Gun Free Zone" signs?

Has the # of murders in schools gone up or down since "Gun Free Zone" signs?

  • Yes, there are less murders in schools now

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, murder and mass murder has increased

    Votes: 2 100.0%

  • I don't know - but think there are MORE murders in schools now

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I don't know - but think there are LESS murders in schools now

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I don't care, it isn't about kids being murdered, only about guns

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    2
J

joko104

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Have murders including mass murder, in school shootings gone up or down since "Gun Free Zone" signs?

Rifles and pistols with huge magazine capacity equal to today have been around for a century. People used to be able to order any gun - including new or retired military guns of any kind - by mail, in a store or from another person. No background check. No record of any kind taken.

There were no "Gun Free Zone" signs, which also means no one on school staff may have one. Accordingly, this is a public notice by the school board (likely required by state law) that no one in the school is capable of stopping/killing anyone who wants to come into the school and kill a lot of children, classmates etc - and will have - minimally 5 minutes and possibly a quarter of an hour to do so. But it also it does mean parents, teachers and others may not legally have a gun is school, if one of them psychologically loses it.

The validity of "Gun Free Zone" signs and assuring no one on school staff has a firearm is whether murder and mass murder in schools has gone up or down? In overall society, murder rates have gone down nationwide. So if murder and mass murder in schools at least didn't go up, those signs cause no deaths. If murder and mass murder rates in schools has gone up, it means those signs are getting children murdered.
 
murder rates are down, but the press hysteria over mass shootings is way up. Given how the term "mass shooting" is even more nebulous a term than "assault weapons"I really don't know. I do know that most of the mass shootings that involve an active shooter targeting random victims, do occur in gun free zones.
 
joko104 said:
Have murders including mass murder, in school shootings gone up or down since "Gun Free Zone" signs?

Rifles and pistols with huge magazine capacity equal to today have been around for a century. People used to be able to order any gun - including new or retired military guns of any kind - by mail, in a store or from another person. No background check. No record of any kind taken.

There were no "Gun Free Zone" signs, which also means no one on school staff may have one. Accordingly, this is a public notice by the school board (likely required by state law) that no one in the school is capable of stopping/killing anyone who wants to come into the school and kill a lot of children, classmates etc - and will have - minimally 5 minutes and possibly a quarter of an hour to do so. But it also it does mean parents, teachers and others may not legally have a gun is school, if one of them psychologically loses it.

The validity of "Gun Free Zone" signs and assuring no one on school staff has a firearm is whether murder and mass murder in schools has gone up or down? In overall society, murder rates have gone down nationwide. So if murder and mass murder in schools at least didn't go up, those signs cause no deaths. If murder and mass murder rates in schools has gone up, it means those signs are getting children murdered.
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Firearms are, for the most part, useless to the general purpose of running a school, unless your purpose is to educate about firearms. This has its place, but in general we do not expect schools to be heavily armed because they should not need to be. It is rather a reflection of the problems with our society that we should even feel the need to seriously consider arming schools and teachers for their protection on a daily basis. Would it stop attacks at schools? Sure, but attacks on schools are not the real problem. The real problem is an overly violent society where weapons are easily accessible.
 
Irredentist said:
Firearms are, for the most part, useless to the general purpose of running a school, unless your purpose is to educate about firearms. This has its place, but in general we do not expect schools to be heavily armed because they should not need to be. It is rather a reflection of the problems with our society that we should even feel the need to seriously consider arming schools and teachers for their protection on a daily basis. Would it stop attacks at schools? Sure, but attacks on schools are not the real problem. The real problem is an overly violent society where weapons are easily accessible.
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That is completely ducking the question. Murder is DOWN in general society. So it should be DOWN in schools too - if it is a matter of society.

It always amazes me when people just blow off the actual murdering of children as you just did. Instead, you acknowledge LESS children would be murdered if school staff has access to firearms, but say that is irrelevant because really its just about getting rid of guns. Less guns is all that matters. Less children in the school because some were murdered in the school is irrelevant to the topic of murder in schools.
 
I think mass shootings have increased because of the closing of mental hospitals. I think it took a while for the cause and effect but we are seeing what happens when mental health is not given the priority it should have. I know too many people that want and need help but if they go for treatment they can kiss their career goodbye. That is how sick we are in this country. I think also the fact that we now live in a society that expects government to solve our problems instead of taking responsibility ourselves for the people around us. Instead of people working to actually solve the problem we have the false belief that if we make laws our problems will magically go away.
 
joko104 said:
That is completely ducking the question. Murder is DOWN in general society. So it should be DOWN in schools too - if it is a matter of society.

It always amazes me when people just blow off the actual murdering of children as you just did. Instead, you acknowledge LESS children would be murdered if school staff has access to firearms, but say that is irrelevant because really its just about getting rid of guns. Less guns is all that matters. Less children in the school because some were murdered in the school is irrelevant to the topic of murder in schools.
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Murder of children in school is emotional and attention grabbing. That's why we're prone to knee jerk responses like gun control or arming teachers. The truth is that our societal problem with violence is more complex than that and needs to be addressed on a multi pronged basis, including mental health, gun regulation, and public education. School shootings, as horrifying as they are, represent only a small fraction of the sum total of murders and overall violence in the United States, which ranks significantly higher than other nations of its socioeconomic class. This needs to be addressed, and arming schools is not a practical or long term solution to anything.
 
School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/school-shootings-are-extraordinarily-rare-why-is-fear-of-them-driving-policy/2018/03/08/f4ead9f2-2247-11e8-94da-ebf9d112159c_story.html?noredirect=on

The Education Department reports that roughly 50 million children attend public schools for roughly 180 days per year. Since Columbine, approximately 200 public school students have been shot to death while school was in session, including the recent slaughter at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla. (and a shooting in Birmingham, Ala., on Wednesday that police called accidental that left one student dead). That means the statistical likelihood of any given public school student being killed by a gun, in school, on any given day since 1999 was roughly 1 in 614,000,000. And since the 1990s, shootings at schools have been getting less common.

The chance of a child being shot and killed in a public school is extraordinarily low. Not zero — no risk is. But it’s far lower than many people assume, especially in the glare of heart-wrenching news coverage after an event like Parkland. And it’s far lower than almost any other mortality risk a kid faces, including traveling to and from school, catching a potentially deadly disease while in school or suffering a life-threatening injury playing interscholastic sports.
 
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