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Is one of the prices of freedom and wealth of a nation a higher murder rate?

Tlrmln said:
There are plenty of nations that are just as free and wealthy as the US, that don't have nearly the murder rate we have.
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They have common sense gun control
 
America is tribal. Far more different groups here than in other developed countries. We are programed to compete against each other. Politicians and the media hype the differences. Makes for better ratings and larger political donations. We also have a sense of entitlement. Your unhappiness, your failures, are not your fault. Society holds you down. You are entitled to grab what you can, regardless of the harm done to others. And for a long period there wasn't much law in this country, so people took it upon themselves to defend themselves against the criminal element. Self-defense became a personal responsibility. It had to. Still is. This meant both sides got armed. And here we are.
 
vegas giants said:
And they have corruption. Is that the best we can be....Russia or Mexico? Aim a little higher
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We have corruption too. But when it comes to murder, we are also in much better shape than they are, a factor of 2 for Russian, and a factor of 5 versus Mexico.
 
Tlrmln said:
We have corruption too. But when it comes to murder, we are also in much better shape than they are, a factor of 2 for Russian, and a factor of 5 versus Mexico.
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To suggest we have corruption even close to what they have is to deny reality
 
vegas giants said:
To suggest we have corruption even close to what they have is to deny reality
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I didn't suggest that. To suggest that our level of corruption would have to be the same as Mexico's in order for it to account in part for the fact that we have one-fifth the murder rate of Mexico, is to deny reality.
 
Tlrmln said:
I didn't suggest that. To suggest that our level of corruption would have to be the same as Mexico's in order for it to account in part for the fact that we have one-fifth the murder rate of Mexico, is to deny reality.
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Dude if the drug cartels ate free to have any arms they want and can kill anyone they want because the government is paid off....what good are gun laws
 
vegas giants said:
Dude if the drug cartels ate free to have any arms they want and can kill anyone they want because the government is paid off....what good are gun laws
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Indeed, and if we live in a country with a porous border with a country where "drug cartels ate free to have any arms they want and can kill anyone they want because the government is paid off" and our city streets are largely run by people who work for those same drug cartels...."what good are gun laws?"
 
Tlrmln said:
Indeed, and if we live in a country with a porous border with a country where "drug cartels ate free to have any arms they want and can kill anyone they want because the government is paid off" and our city streets are largely run by people who work for those same drug cartels...."what good are gun laws?"
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I guess you live in Mexico.

That's not the US

Ask el chapo
 
joko104 said:
I only put this on the gun thread because that usually is the context of the topic of murder - and to not clutter the top of the board with it.

Is it possible that the more freedom people have and the more wealth and economic opportunity there is - does this somehow inevitably result in higher murder rates?

Thru all of history there has always been genocidal, psychotic, sociopathic, psychologically disturbed and/or sadist people who commit senseless murders for which regardless of motive, there is a desire to commit murder, indiscriminate murder and mass murder. That somehow that is in human genetics to some degree or another, some percentage or another - and the question is how much can a person control the desire - and how strong is that desire?

If a person feels "free," they feel free to think freely - and may have a greatly heightened sense of unfairness and seeing themselves as a victim including by society. If things are fair, why is everyone and everything so unfair to him. If everyone has so much opportunity, why doesn't he? He can develop this personae further and further from reality on social media. If added to this is a reclusive and regressive personality leading to social isolation, everyone he blames - other students, society, people of some race or religion or other religion, a certain gender, some political reason, type of music they like - whatever - the element of freedom and national prosperity - becomes the focus of his intensifying desire to commit murder.

I bet the murder rate (excluding by government) is much lower in North Korea and China where people are less free and have less hope of great personal career choice and economic prosperity.

Is one of the prices of freedom and wealth of a nation that this inherently lends itself to a higher murder rate?
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Freedom and wealth do not produce crime, rather crime itself as well as violence take many factors. For example gun crime across europe is fairly low, but there is also a low demand for guns or any weapons as well(except you violent britain) European societies have different mentalities, different family structures, and different ethnic and religious situations.

In america you can be in a part of town where koreans, japanese, jewish and christians, slavic people, blacks mexicans peurto ricans etc all live, there can be gang and ethnic violence galore when different ethnicities and religions are clustered so close together. In america we get gang violence and hate crimes as a result, in other nations you get genocide and ethnic cleansing.


One must not seek to remove the tools of violence, but address the violence itself, why dod gangs want to shoot eachother, why do ethnic and religious groups want to erradicate eachother, and what we do different that other nations like in europe have such problems but on a much smaller scale while america has issues on a massive scale but in lesser individual effect and places like eastern europe asia africa and the middle east have epic problems with violence.
 
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