• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Have you ever shot an AR15?

Have you shot an AR15?

  • Yes - and guns like the AR15 should be banned

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • Yes - and guns like the AR15 should not be banned

    Votes: 30 62.5%
  • No - and guns like the AR15 should be banned

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • No - and guns like the AR15 should not be banned

    Votes: 11 22.9%
  • Yes - ban high capacity magazines

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No - ban high capacity magazines

    Votes: 1 2.1%

  • Total voters
    48

joko104

Banned
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
65,981
Reaction score
23,408
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
One of the annoyances of debating gun control is that those who want to ignore 2A are usually incredibly ignorant about firearms, so sound like idiots when they rant, particularly politicians.

So to pro-gun rights people who are experienced with firearms it never goes beyond the sense that the anti-gun rights person is just an idiot having no clue what they are talking about.

It would be like debating someone over legalizing marijuana, they oppose it - saying it is because thousands of people die from overdoses every year, causes birth defects, permanent blindness and impotency plus all of a person's hair falls out. How do you debate someone THAT wrong factually? Thus, you never actually get to real issues at all.

People who have no experience with firearms think anyone can just buy a gun and then go out and shoot to death gobs of people. After all, that is how Hollywood says it works. Everyone - except maybe the good guy - who is shot instantly flies back against a wall, dead before they hit the ground. Just point the gun pulling the trigger as fast as you can and everyone around is instantly killed.

Anyone who is experienced with firearms knows how truly ignorant/lack that is. Anyone can test this. There are gun shops and gun ranges that rent firearms for use. A few even full automatic machine guns. Go rent-a-gun and shoot at stationary targets at only 30 feet with any pistol or rifles over a 22LR. Big 8 inch diameter targets or human outline. Do it with an AR15 with a big magazine. Do it with a handgun 9mm or larger in caliber. Shoot FAST like a mass shooter would. Remember, these targets aren't moving - like people who will be running.

See how many times you hit within 4 inches of the center of the target - an 8 inch diameter. Then see how many people - people who stood their frozen like statues, squarely facing you - that you would have killed. Again, SHOOT FAST! You will quickly see that anyone who isn't a highly practiced shooter can't hit targets in the kill-zone if they are firing fast even if the target isn't moving. It is VERY difficult for a new shooter. Even for an experienced one.

To the response "the proof is how many are killed by mass shooters with such a "military assault rifle" (it's not), the answer is unless denied medical care (as the Obama FBI did to the LGBTs wounded in the Pulse nightclub allowed to bleed to death for 2 hours), the AR15 usually mostly only wounded those shot - and nearly everyone at the location got away unharmed. MANY other methods used for mass murder have vastly higher death rates - and usually allow the murderer to both escape and be unknown. Mass shooters are always killed, suicide, or surrender quickly.

So... have you shot an AR15? Do you have a CLUE what you are talking about? Or is it only what you have heard and just figure what they are like to shoot?
 
Last edited:
One of the annoyances of debating gun control is that those who want to ignore 2A are usually incredibly ignorant about firearms, so sound like idiots when they rant, particularly politicians.

So to pro-gun rights people who are experienced with firearms it never goes beyond the sense that the anti-gun rights person is just an idiot having no clue what they are talking about.

It would be like debating someone over legalizing marijuana, they oppose it - saying it is because thousands of people die from overdoses every year, causes birth defects, permanent blindness and impotency plus all of a person's hair falls out. How do you debate someone THAT wrong factually? Thus, you never actually get to real issues at all.

People who have no experience with firearms think anyone can just buy a gun and then go out and shoot to death gobs of people. After all, that is how Hollywood says it works. Everyone - except maybe the good guy - who is shot instantly flies back against a wall, dead before they hit the ground. Just point the gun pulling the trigger as fast as you can and everyone around is instantly killed.

Anyone who is experienced with firearms knows how truly ignorant/lack that is. Anyone can test this. There are gun shops and gun ranges that rent firearms for use. A few even full automatic machine guns. Go rent-a-gun and shoot at stationary targets at only 30 feet with any pistol or rifles over a 22LR. Big 8 inch diameter targets or human outline. Do it with an AR15 with a big magazine. Do it with a handgun 9mm or larger in caliber. Shoot FAST like a mass shooter would. Remember, these targets aren't moving - like people who will be running.

See how many times you hit within 4 inches of the center of the target - an 8 inch diameter. Then see how many people - people who stood their squarely facing you - that you would have killed. You will quickly see that anyone who isn't a highly practiced shooter can't hit targets in the kill-zone if they are firing fast even if the target isn't moving. It is VERY difficult for a new shooter. Even a somewhat experienced one.

To the response "the proof is how many are killed by mass shooters with such a "military assault rifle" (it's not), the answer is unless denied denial medical care (as the Obama FBI did to the LGBTs wounded in the Pulse nightclub allowed to bleed to death for 2 hours), the AR15 usually mostly only wounded those shot - and nearly everyone at the location got away unharmed. MANY other methods used for mass murder have vastly higher death rates - and usually allow the murderer to both escape and be unknown. Mass shooters are always killed, suicide, or surrender quickly.

So... have you shot an AR15? Do you have a CLUE what you are talking about? Or is it only what you have heard and just figure what they are like to shoot?

The funny thing joko is that I think the majority of gun owners on this forum have probably never fired their weapon. Having a virgin gun yet preaching about the second amendment and gun rights. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?
 
Not only shot but, own one. I'll sell it for $5000.
 
One of the annoyances of debating gun control is that those who want to ignore 2A are usually incredibly ignorant about firearms, so sound like idiots when they rant, particularly politicians.

So to pro-gun rights people who are experienced with firearms it never goes beyond the sense that the anti-gun rights person is just an idiot having no clue what they are talking about.

It would be like debating someone over legalizing marijuana, they oppose it - saying it is because thousands of people die from overdoses every year, causes birth defects, permanent blindness and impotency plus all of a person's hair falls out. How do you debate someone THAT wrong factually? Thus, you never actually get to real issues at all.

People who have no experience with firearms think anyone can just buy a gun and then go out and shoot to death gobs of people. After all, that is how Hollywood says it works. Everyone - except maybe the good guy - who is shot instantly flies back against a wall, dead before they hit the ground. Just point the gun pulling the trigger as fast as you can and everyone around is instantly killed.

Anyone who is experienced with firearms knows how truly ignorant/lack that is. Anyone can test this. There are gun shops and gun ranges that rent firearms for use. A few even full automatic machine guns. Go rent-a-gun and shoot at stationary targets at only 30 feet with any pistol or rifles over a 22LR. Big 8 inch diameter targets or human outline. Do it with an AR15 with a big magazine. Do it with a handgun 9mm or larger in caliber. Shoot FAST like a mass shooter would. Remember, these targets aren't moving - like people who will be running.

See how many times you hit within 4 inches of the center of the target - an 8 inch diameter. Then see how many people - people who stood their frozen like statues, squarely facing you - that you would have killed. Again, SHOOT FAST! You will quickly see that anyone who isn't a highly practiced shooter can't hit targets in the kill-zone if they are firing fast even if the target isn't moving. It is VERY difficult for a new shooter. Even for an experienced one.

To the response "the proof is how many are killed by mass shooters with such a "military assault rifle" (it's not), the answer is unless denied medical care (as the Obama FBI did to the LGBTs wounded in the Pulse nightclub allowed to bleed to death for 2 hours), the AR15 usually mostly only wounded those shot - and nearly everyone at the location got away unharmed. MANY other methods used for mass murder have vastly higher death rates - and usually allow the murderer to both escape and be unknown. Mass shooters are always killed, suicide, or surrender quickly.

So... have you shot an AR15? Do you have a CLUE what you are talking about? Or is it only what you have heard and just figure what they are like to shoot?

Ya know, every time you use phrases like "the Obama FBI" people just roll their eyes and move on.
Credibility zero, no matter what the topic or the point you're making about it.
 
One of the annoyances of debating gun control is that those who want to ignore 2A are usually incredibly ignorant about firearms, so sound like idiots when they rant, particularly politicians.

Right. My money is that Mr. Badass up here has never been to Parris Island or Twentynine Palms.
 
Ya know, every time you use phrases like "the Obama FBI" people just roll their eyes and move on.
Credibility zero, no matter what the topic or the point you're making about it.

The Obama administration imposed various restraints in regards to Muslims. Regardless, while you may not be aware of it, Obama was president during the Pulse nightclub shooting - which lasted over 2 hours. So you are claiming there was no contact with the White House during this? That the president had no opinion on it at the time? If so, then explain why he didn't give a damn. Because the victims were LGBTs?

I guess that's your point, huh? He did blame it on homosexuality, despite the shooter on the phone to the FBI stating is was because he was a Muslim fighting the USA for our involvement in ME Muslim countries.

Who do YOU say was president at the time of the Pulse nightclub shooting and the order for local police who had trapped the shooter in a bathroom to pull out and let the wounded bleed to death, while the FBI singularly pursued trying to talk the radical Muslim terrorist to giving himself up so he wasn't harmed?
 
Own one, have shot more than one.
 
The funny thing joko is that I think the majority of gun owners on this forum have probably never fired their weapon. Having a virgin gun yet preaching about the second amendment and gun rights. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

No and that makes no sense. Not 1% of gun owners have the ability to be proficient in terms of rapid and sustained rapid firing with a high kill rate with an AR15 - even if they own one. Not only does your message make no sense, you are making my point.

That said, I doubt 1 in 10 owners of an AR15 have never fired it. People who only own a pistol maybe, not AR15 owners.
 
Not only shot but, own one. I'll sell it for $5000.

A new basic AR15 cost about $600 to $700 depending on the brand. Used about $400 to $700, depending if and how it is customized. If I bought every one at the local gun shop and/or at the local two flea markets, even including ones totally tricked out and with optics, it would be less than $1000 each on average.

But if you can get $5000 for one, more power to you! Someone that stupid is too stupid to figure out how to load up a magazine. :thumbs:
 
Not only shot but, own one. I'll sell it for $5000.

I can't think of an AR worth that much now but once a ban goes into effect I foresee the Eagle Arms ARs going for that much.
 
The Obama administration imposed various restraints in regards to Muslims. Regardless, while you may not be aware of it, Obama was president during the Pulse nightclub shooting - which lasted over 2 hours. So you are claiming there was no contact with the White House during this? That the president had no opinion on it at the time? If so, then explain why he didn't give a damn. Because the victims were LGBTs?

I guess that's your point, huh? He did blame it on homosexuality, despite the shooter on the phone to the FBI stating is was because he was a Muslim fighting the USA for our involvement in ME Muslim countries.

Who do YOU say was president at the time of the Pulse nightclub shooting and the order for local police who had trapped the shooter in a bathroom to pull out and let the wounded bleed to death, while the FBI singularly pursued trying to talk the radical Muslim terrorist to giving himself up so he wasn't harmed?

ohfer****sakes.
Yeah, you're right, during a very violent active shooter situation the head of the Miami FBI office called up President Obama, who told him to let people bleed to death.
Damn. What a ****hole you live in. Most Americans live in a pretty great country but you live in a corrupt ****hole.
 
Do not own one, but have shot a buddy's several times. I prefer my gun, aside from the cost.
 
I can't think of an AR worth that much now but once a ban goes into effect I foresee the Eagle Arms ARs going for that much.

$450 and that is with a Wylde barrel. Basically .223 accuracy with 5.56 velocity - best of both. Unless getting into serious carbon fiber components, even the most customized and tricked out AR15 would peak out at about $2000 to $2500 complete.

Eagle Arms Armalite Eagle-15 ORC, Semi-Automatic, .223 Wylde, 16" Barrel, 30+1 Rounds - 710480, at Sportsman's Guide

The quantity of components out their for AR15s is MASSIVE and a firearm easily built from parts. The "rifle" itself is only the lower - the bottom have of the "frame." Nothing else of it is considered a firearm - since no other parts have a serial number. Because the serial number is not on the barrel, barrel swapping does not require going thru an FFL for a new purchase.

As for the "lower," (part with the serial number), those are manufactured as "80%" lowers, meaning they are only 80% complete. For about $250 a person can buy the simple tools (unless having them) to finish them out. The builder then will leave it as a no-serial number gun (illegal on it's face), stamp on a serial number going thru the BATF (thus a legal build) or stamp a fake # or the number off a legitimate gun - illegal but will set off no alarms unless something causes running the number and even then the result would only be the gun seized if they can not prove the person him/herself made it, rather than purchased it in a private sale. These are called "ghost guns," ie guns that as far as all records are concerned do not exist - yet they do and lots of them.

Even many, many AR15s are made by gun shops, independents and individuals entirely out of parts as new guns and legally reported to the BATF. No rifle has ever been made by such a large number of manufactures - from major gun companies, small specialty gun companies (most go out of business) and people/individuals legally or illegally manufacturing them in their garage or small shop.

AR15s, Colt 45acp pistols and AK47s are the most common ghost guns. Since AK47s are basically cut and folded sheet metal for the main body, they a made in little shops, garages and huts around the world.
 
The funny thing joko is that I think the majority of gun owners on this forum have probably never fired their weapon. Having a virgin gun yet preaching about the second amendment and gun rights. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

where do you come up with this idiocy? Sure, I have a few guns I bought as investments-special runs or a second version of a rare gun. But most of us buy guns to use.
 
Fired many times...while I dont own an AR, my wife has 3 and my daughter has 1.
 
Nope, no desire or need for one.
 
where do you come up with this idiocy? Sure, I have a few guns I bought as investments-special runs or a second version of a rare gun. But most of us buy guns to use.

He also makes a case for large magazine capacity. Just shooting assailants/invaders and stopping the attacl are two very different matters. The lesser the person's skill including in a panic surprise situation, less likely any one bullet will stop a person, particularly out of a 22 caliber. Recently there was a video posted of a police officer - having literally a couple minutes on a crazed man with a knife who would not stop walking at the officer - who after backing up a block ordering him to drop the knife finally needed to shoot.

His great patience of walking backwards for a block by a man with a knife ignoring the officer's order to stop and drop the knife demonstrated that police officer truly did not want to shoot the guy. When he finally had to, he only shot the guy 4 times with his 9mm at fairly close range. The guy fell to the ground. It was over, right? No, the guy got up rushing the officer who was now in the fight for his life over his own gun.

When it is to shoot - shoot! Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shook - keep on shooting. People wonder why one or more officers might empty a 15 round Glock at an armed and approaching assailant refusing to comply to drop the weapon. That video showed why. It also showed by a person really might need a lot of bullets, not just what people who know NOTHING about firearms other than Hollywood movies.

Unless a person is hit in the head destroying their brain or in the throat paralyzing the person, unless a BIG caliber rifle round, a person hit anywhere else - even a fatal wound - as seconds to minutes or more to still shoot you, stab you, wrestle your gun away shooting you with it etc. Even if shot in the heart if a small caliber, the person still has seconds of fight left. Same with a slit throat. A few seconds of life left is enough time for that person to still shot or stab you.

Most people hit by a single shot from anything but from BIG and HIGH VELOCITY caliber rifle will not be an instant kill. Most will survive - only wounded in a way the hospital can safe. Even if fatally wounded, most could still fight and my not die for minutes, hours or even a few days later. Most people killed by civilian gun fire die from bleeding out due to lack of fast enough medical care. But most shot by such as an AR15 will survive. All 6 of the police shot by an AR15 in Philly were wounded, not killed.
 
He also makes a case for large magazine capacity. Just shooting assailants/invaders and stopping the attacl are two very different matters. The lesser the person's skill including in a panic surprise situation, less likely any one bullet will stop a person, particularly out of a 22 caliber. Recently there was a video posted of a police officer - having literally a couple minutes on a crazed man with a knife who would not stop walking at the officer - who after backing up a block ordering him to drop the knife finally needed to shoot.

His great patience of walking backwards for a block by a man with a knife ignoring the officer's order to stop and drop the knife demonstrated that police officer truly did not want to shoot the guy. When he finally had to, he only shot the guy 4 times with his 9mm at fairly close range. The guy fell to the ground. It was over, right? No, the guy got up rushing the officer who was now in the fight for his life over his own gun.

When it is to shoot - shoot! Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shook - keep on shooting. People wonder why one or more officers might empty a 15 round Glock at an armed and approaching assailant refusing to comply to drop the weapon. That video showed why. It also showed by a person really might need a lot of bullets, not just what people who know NOTHING about firearms other than Hollywood movies.

Unless a person is hit in the head destroying their brain or in the throat paralyzing the person, unless a BIG caliber rifle round, a person hit anywhere else - even a fatal wound - as seconds to minutes or more to still shoot you, stab you, wrestle your gun away shooting you with it etc. Even if shot in the heart if a small caliber, the person still has seconds of fight left. Same with a slit throat. A few seconds of life left is enough time for that person to still shot or stab you.

Most people hit by a single shot from anything but from BIG and HIGH VELOCITY caliber rifle will not be an instant kill. Most will survive - only wounded in a way the hospital can safe. Even if fatally wounded, most could still fight and my not die for minutes, hours or even a few days later. Most people killed by civilian gun fire die from bleeding out due to lack of fast enough medical care. But most shot by such as an AR15 will survive. All 6 of the police shot by an AR15 in Philly were wounded, not killed.

Having had the less than pleasant experience of having to shoot someone, and having studied hundreds of private citizen and civilian police shootings, I can tell you, there is no real certainty to what happens. Yes, if you hit someone square in the forehead with a centerfire rifle cartridge of any shotgun shell at close range, it will be fatal-period. But torso hits are unpredictable
 
So... have you shot an AR15? Do you have a CLUE what you are talking about? Or is it only what you have heard and just figure what they are like to shoot?

I can honestly say that I have never fired an AR15. I own an AR12, and for 8 years I had to qualify every year with both the M16A1 and M16A2, but I have never fired an AR15. Having said that, I think I do have some clue what I'm talking about.
 
$450 and that is with a Wylde barrel. Basically .223 accuracy with 5.56 velocity - best of both. Unless getting into serious carbon fiber components, even the most customized and tricked out AR15 would peak out at about $2000 to $2500 complete.

Eagle Arms Armalite Eagle-15 ORC, Semi-Automatic, .223 Wylde, 16" Barrel, 30+1 Rounds - 710480, at Sportsman's Guide

The quantity of components out their for AR15s is MASSIVE and a firearm easily built from parts. The "rifle" itself is only the lower - the bottom have of the "frame." Nothing else of it is considered a firearm - since no other parts have a serial number. Because the serial number is not on the barrel, barrel swapping does not require going thru an FFL for a new purchase.

As for the "lower," (part with the serial number), those are manufactured as "80%" lowers, meaning they are only 80% complete. For about $250 a person can buy the simple tools (unless having them) to finish them out. The builder then will leave it as a no-serial number gun (illegal on it's face), stamp on a serial number going thru the BATF (thus a legal build) or stamp a fake # or the number off a legitimate gun - illegal but will set off no alarms unless something causes running the number and even then the result would only be the gun seized if they can not prove the person him/herself made it, rather than purchased it in a private sale. These are called "ghost guns," ie guns that as far as all records are concerned do not exist - yet they do and lots of them.

Even many, many AR15s are made by gun shops, independents and individuals entirely out of parts as new guns and legally reported to the BATF. No rifle has ever been made by such a large number of manufactures - from major gun companies, small specialty gun companies (most go out of business) and people/individuals legally or illegally manufacturing them in their garage or small shop.

AR15s, Colt 45acp pistols and AK47s are the most common ghost guns. Since AK47s are basically cut and folded sheet metal for the main body, they a made in little shops, garages and huts around the world.

There are a lot of nice features to ArmaLite designed firearms. I love the mechanical sights, and the spring in the stock to help absorb recoil was a stroke of genius. I can take or leave the pistol grip, it doesn't help or hinder, and it was one of the very first firearms to be specifically designed with a synthetic stock. I really like wood stocks, they can make a firearm a work of art. But synthetic stocks are eminently more practical in the hunting world. If all I did was shoot paper targets, I would probably only by firearms with wooden stocks.

However, I don't really have a need for such a small caliber. Last year I bought an AR12, and I think the smallest caliber I can go with is the AR10, which is at least close to the .3006 I currently use. That is another nice feature of ARs, there are a wide variety of calibers you can obtain.
 
One of the annoyances of debating gun control is that those who want to ignore 2A are usually incredibly ignorant about firearms, so sound like idiots when they rant, particularly politicians.

So to pro-gun rights people who are experienced with firearms it never goes beyond the sense that the anti-gun rights person is just an idiot having no clue what they are talking about.

It would be like debating someone over legalizing marijuana, they oppose it - saying it is because thousands of people die from overdoses every year, causes birth defects, permanent blindness and impotency plus all of a person's hair falls out. How do you debate someone THAT wrong factually? Thus, you never actually get to real issues at all.

People who have no experience with firearms think anyone can just buy a gun and then go out and shoot to death gobs of people. After all, that is how Hollywood says it works. Everyone - except maybe the good guy - who is shot instantly flies back against a wall, dead before they hit the ground. Just point the gun pulling the trigger as fast as you can and everyone around is instantly killed.

Anyone who is experienced with firearms knows how truly ignorant/lack that is. Anyone can test this. There are gun shops and gun ranges that rent firearms for use. A few even full automatic machine guns. Go rent-a-gun and shoot at stationary targets at only 30 feet with any pistol or rifles over a 22LR. Big 8 inch diameter targets or human outline. Do it with an AR15 with a big magazine. Do it with a handgun 9mm or larger in caliber. Shoot FAST like a mass shooter would. Remember, these targets aren't moving - like people who will be running.

See how many times you hit within 4 inches of the center of the target - an 8 inch diameter. Then see how many people - people who stood their frozen like statues, squarely facing you - that you would have killed. Again, SHOOT FAST! You will quickly see that anyone who isn't a highly practiced shooter can't hit targets in the kill-zone if they are firing fast even if the target isn't moving. It is VERY difficult for a new shooter. Even for an experienced one.

To the response "the proof is how many are killed by mass shooters with such a "military assault rifle" (it's not), the answer is unless denied medical care (as the Obama FBI did to the LGBTs wounded in the Pulse nightclub allowed to bleed to death for 2 hours), the AR15 usually mostly only wounded those shot - and nearly everyone at the location got away unharmed. MANY other methods used for mass murder have vastly higher death rates - and usually allow the murderer to both escape and be unknown. Mass shooters are always killed, suicide, or surrender quickly.

So... have you shot an AR15? Do you have a CLUE what you are talking about? Or is it only what you have heard and just figure what they are like to shoot?

Own and fired mine many times.


They should be licensed and registered
 
Own and fired mine many times.


They should be licensed and registered

What do you think that would accomplish? Is there any instance of a shooting where that would have made a difference? Curious as to your reasoning.
 
What do you think that would accomplish? Is there any instance of a shooting where that would have made a difference? Curious as to your reasoning.

In states and countries that have that there are less gun deaths. It's not a coincidence when there are dozens of examples
 
Here's my 2 cents.

Yes. I have fired an AR15 and many other "scary looking" guns just like it.

As far as I can tell, I think my Remington 30.06 could get the job done just as easily.

Why would we ban the AR and not my deer rifle?

The only difference I can tell is one looks scary, the other looks like a piece of mastered craftsmanship. They both can stop a buffalo. Also, my 30.06 has a small magazine and the others have a high capacity magazine.

I am a one-shot/one-kill kinda guy. Truth be known, if you miss your buck with the first shot you most likely won't get a second chance. For that matter, a single-shot rifle would be just as effective.

It would not ruffle my feathers if some legislation came down limiting the amount of rounds in rifle magazines. But, then again, it takes very little time to reload a fresh magazine. So why bother?
 
The funny thing joko is that I think the majority of gun owners on this forum have probably never fired their weapon. Having a virgin gun yet preaching about the second amendment and gun rights. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

The funny thing Bucky is, imo, many who want firearms banned have probably never fired a weapon nor own one. don't you think, having never fired a weapon or owning one yet preaching something needs to be banned is hypocritical?
 
Back
Top Bottom