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Thread: Police Keep Getting Shot by Illegal Guns

  1. #11
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    Re: Police Keep Getting Shot by Illegal Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by swing_voter View Post
    There's more guns in American than there are people. Even if you managed to ban all the guns tomorrow, there's so many guns out there that you'd never get rid of them.

    I'd much rather go after

    1. mandatory training provided free by the NRA
    What gun crime does training prevent?
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    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #12
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    Re: Police Keep Getting Shot by Illegal Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by swing_voter View Post
    There's more guns in American than there are people. Even if you managed to ban all the guns tomorrow, there's so many guns out there that you'd never get rid of them.

    I'd much rather go after

    1. mandatory training provided free by the NRA
    2. better background checks, no crazies allowed to own guns
    3. gun restraining orders when you can get a judge to say a person can't be within a 100 yards of a gun.
    4. guns must be locked up when not in use.

    And maybe banning clips over 30 rounds and bump stalks
    too funny for words
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only "sport" that most gun owners participate in is suicide or murder.

  3. #13
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    Re: Police Keep Getting Shot by Illegal Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What gun crime does training prevent?
    what part of the constitution would allow the government to make the NRA provide uncompensated training? In the Prinz case, the court held that the federal government couldn't force the states to do background checks without compensation
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only "sport" that most gun owners participate in is suicide or murder.

  4. #14
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    Re: Police Keep Getting Shot by Illegal Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by swing_voter View Post
    There's more guns in American than there are people. Even if you managed to ban all the guns tomorrow, there's so many guns out there that you'd never get rid of them.

    I'd much rather go after

    1. mandatory training provided free by the NRA
    2. better background checks, no crazies allowed to own guns
    3. gun restraining orders when you can get a judge to say a person can't be within a 100 yards of a gun.
    4. guns must be locked up when not in use.

    And maybe banning clips over 30 rounds and bump stalks
    Don't think the government can force the NRA to spend money to train people for free. The government doesn't do anything about guns for free. There is a fee for everything.

    In this city it would be very difficult to be further than 100 yards from a gun - and how would a person know anyway?

    Bump stocks are absurdity inefficient - but weren't they recently banned?

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    Re: Police Keep Getting Shot by Illegal Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    too funny for words
    He's trying to find a middle ground rather than just banning everything. I'll give that poster credit for that - trying to find a solution without ranting all firearms must be surrendered pretending it would happen. That poster recognizes that isn't a realistic option.

  6. #16
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    Re: Police Keep Getting Shot by Illegal Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Making gun ownership illegal isnít much good against people who donít obey the law. Even in countries with very strict anti-gun laws the criminals seem to have no trouble getting them.
    That isnít true. Countries with strict gun laws and effective application of those laws do make it more difficult for criminals to get firearms. It will never make it impossible and those determined to will always manage but it certainly reduces the element of petty criminals routinely carrying and, even if they donít plan to, using, firearms.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Banning guns just puts law abiding people at a disadvantage. Gun free zones turn innocent people into sitting ducks.
    Simply having the right to carry firearms doesnít magically make everyone safer. Law abiding citizens are always going to be at a disadvantage to criminals engaging in a planned endeavour. Making guns ubiquitous only serves to guarantee that every confrontation can become a shootout.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    In nations like Japan the murder rate would be very low even if everyone owned a firearm. In the US the murder rate would be as high even if guns were generally confiscated.
    True, and that is a function of gun culture. Even if it became legal, most Japanese people still wouldnít want to carry guns and even if it became illegal, many Americans would. The law in itself isnít the issue, but the law is a reflection of the culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    If only the police had guns criminals would kill policemen to steal their guns.
    Some would, most couldnít even if they wanted to. Of course, if all law-abiding citizens had guns, the criminals would have much softer targets to steal from. If literally everyone were allowed to have guns, the criminals wouldnít need to steal them at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    The murder rate in US cities is proportional to the strictness of gun control - as much cause as effect.
    No it isnít. They both vary massively by time and place but theyíre not consistently proportional.

  7. #17
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    Re: Police Keep Getting Shot by Illegal Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    That isn’t true. Countries with strict gun laws and effective application of those laws do make it more difficult for criminals to get firearms. It will never make it impossible and those determined to will always manage but it certainly reduces the element of petty criminals routinely carrying and, even if they don’t plan to, using, firearms.

    Simply having the right to carry firearms doesn’t magically make everyone safer. Law abiding citizens are always going to be at a disadvantage to criminals engaging in a planned endeavour. Making guns ubiquitous only serves to guarantee that every confrontation can become a shootout.

    True, and that is a function of gun culture. Even if it became legal, most Japanese people still wouldn’t want to carry guns and even if it became illegal, many Americans would. The law in itself isn’t the issue, but the law is a reflection of the culture.

    Some would, most couldn’t even if they wanted to. Of course, if all law-abiding citizens had guns, the criminals would have much softer targets to steal from. If literally everyone were allowed to have guns, the criminals wouldn’t need to steal them at all.

    No it isn’t. They both vary massively by time and place but they’re not consistently proportional.
    You appear to agree that the violence is in the culture, not in the guns, but you don't want to grant law abiding citizens the right to use guns for self defense even given that our culture is more violent. Shooting it out is way better that being shot at and having no defense.

    If I don't answer your post it's because you lost the debate.

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    Re: Police Keep Getting Shot by Illegal Guns

    How many god damn times do you people throw out the same god damn stupid argument.

    It's hard to keep guns away from criminals when there are pretty much no regulations. They can go to a neighboring red state and buy as many guns as they want. People can sell them guns. NOt hard for criminals to get guns when its so easy to get guns and sell guns

  9. #19
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    Re: Police Keep Getting Shot by Illegal Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    You appear to agree that the violence is in the culture, not in the guns, but you don't want to grant law abiding citizens the right to use guns for self defense even given that our culture is more violent. Shooting it out is way better that being shot at and having no defense.
    Let's test the theory. Which states in the US have the most gun deaths? Lax gun laws or strict gun laws?

  10. #20
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    Re: Police Keep Getting Shot by Illegal Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    You appear to agree that the violence is in the culture, not in the guns, but you don't want to grant law abiding citizens the right to use guns for self defense even given that our culture is more violent. Shooting it out is way better that being shot at and having no defense.
    You’re still working on the (IMO flawed) assumption that a relaxation of gun laws wouldn’t see an increase in gun use by criminals and other bad or dangerous actors. Just as you can’t restrict guns to criminals without restricting law-abiding citizens, you can’t allow guns for law-abiding citizens without allowing them for criminals too. After all, the step to being a criminal can turn on a moment and could happen before or after a person gets a gun.

    The point of highlighting factors beyond gun laws is that focusing on those are much more likely to have a positive impact on violent crime (and related problems) than obsessing over the impossible task of resolving the endless gun law debate to everyone’s (anyone’s!) satisfaction. The two questions Americans ask in response to another reported shooting is “What colour were they?” and “What guns did they use?”. The question of “Why did they want to kill anyone?” falls way down the list, if it gets asked at all.

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