• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do you feel safer Now?

I

independentusa

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
14,607
Reaction score
9,303
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Armed Man Who Caused Panic at Missouri Walmart Said It Was 2nd Amendment Test, Authorities Say - The New York Times

For over 30 years the NRA and gun advocates have told us we will be safer with more guns out there and fewer places that guns are not allowed. The estimate is that we have over 300 million guns out there and there are fewer places you can not carry. In fact Texas has one of the laws that allow carry almost everywhere and yet the shooting in El Paso took place. Not only that but there are people who were interviewed who said they were carrying, but they like everyone else fled the shooting. There are even people who are so gun nuts that they are willing after what happened in the El Paso Walmart, to go into another Walmart carrying weapons similar to the El Paso shooter to prove their 2nd Amendment rights. See the article above. Needless to say there was a panic. So my question to you, as the number of mass shootings grow to record numbers, do all of these guns and laws make you feel safer?
 
independentusa said:
Armed Man Who Caused Panic at Missouri Walmart Said It Was 2nd Amendment Test, Authorities Say - The New York Times

For over 30 years the NRA and gun advocates have told us we will be safer with more guns out there and fewer places that guns are not allowed. The estimate is that we have over 300 million guns out there and there are fewer places you can not carry. In fact Texas has one of the laws that allow carry almost everywhere and yet the shooting in El Paso took place. Not only that but there are people who were interviewed who said they were carrying, but they like everyone else fled the shooting. There are even people who are so gun nuts that they are willing after what happened in the El Paso Walmart, to go into another Walmart carrying weapons similar to the El Paso shooter to prove their 2nd Amendment rights. See the article above. Needless to say there was a panic. So my question to you, as the number of mass shootings grow to record numbers, do all of these guns and laws make you feel safer?
Click to expand...

It was a 2nd Amendment audit.

It's not that uncommon actually.
 
Heck no! To think that everyone around me is packin' is beyond scary!
 
independentusa said:
Armed Man Who Caused Panic at Missouri Walmart Said It Was 2nd Amendment Test, Authorities Say - The New York Times

For over 30 years the NRA and gun advocates have told us we will be safer with more guns out there and fewer places that guns are not allowed. The estimate is that we have over 300 million guns out there and there are fewer places you can not carry. In fact Texas has one of the laws that allow carry almost everywhere and yet the shooting in El Paso took place. Not only that but there are people who were interviewed who said they were carrying, but they like everyone else fled the shooting. There are even people who are so gun nuts that they are willing after what happened in the El Paso Walmart, to go into another Walmart carrying weapons similar to the El Paso shooter to prove their 2nd Amendment rights. See the article above. Needless to say there was a panic. So my question to you, as the number of mass shootings grow to record numbers, do all of these guns and laws make you feel safer?
Click to expand...

I am not afraid.

I feel as safe as I ever have in life. I don't own a single gun, but I don't have a problem with the right to keep and bear arms.

Fearmongering does not sway me. Demonizing guns and gun owners does not sway me.

False narratives and moral outrage do not sway me.

I recognize that such incidents, however played up in the media, and however sad for the victims, still represents a fraction of a fraction of deaths, and an even smaller representation of gun owners.

As for the idea that El paso proves there are no good guys with guns, facts argue otherwise.

One can find news in all sorts of local media of good guys with guns preventing all sorts of crimes, even potential mass shootings. In fact, the very prevention makes such incidents avoided by national news media.

This is because reporting such acts fails to sell views/advertising, as there isn't enough "tragedy" to suit the narratives.

Moreover, doing so would defeat the narrative that there are no such things as good guys with guns.

No amount of fearmongering is going to stop my support for the right of individual citizens to keep and bear arms. Arms fully capable of self defense, defense of other, defense of our nation from enemies both foreign and domestic...and ultimately if necessary, against a tyrannical government.

Screech on, I will resist gun control and vote for the Second Amendment every time.

I am not afraid.
 
Last edited:
Oborosen said:
It was a 2nd Amendment audit.

It's not that uncommon actually.
Click to expand...

And you think it was smart to do so at a Walmart right after what happened in El Paso. He is very lucky that some cop or some one carrying did not shoot him. Stupid people do stupid things and he is just lucky he is not dead. Of course it was his right to carry and be that stupid.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I am not afraid.

I feel as safe as I ever have in life. I don't own a single gun, but I don't have a problem with the right to keep and bear arms.

Fearmongering does not sway me. Demonizing guns and gun owners does not sway me.

False narratives and moral outrage do not sway me.

I recognize that such incidents, however played up in the media, and however sad for the victims, still represents a fraction of a fraction of deaths, and an even smaller representation of gun owners.

As for the idea that El paso proves there are no good guys with guns, facts argue otherwise.

One can find news in all sorts of local media of good guys with guns preventing all sorts of crimes, even potential mass shootings. In fact, the very prevention makes such incidents avoided by national news media.

This is because reporting such acts fails to sell views/advertising, as there isn't enough "tragedy" to suit the narratives.

Moreover, doing so would defeat the narrative that there are no such things as good guys with guns.

No amount of fearmongering is going to stop my support for the right of individual citizens to keep and bear arms capable of self defense, defense of other, defense of our nation from enemies both foreign and domestic...and ultimately if necessary, against a tyrannical government.

Screech on, I will resist gun control and vote for the Second Amendment every time.
Click to expand...

Well, I just hope you or your family do not run into one of these crazies. There are a lot more of them than in the past whether you believe it or not. Between 2009 and 2017 there were 173 what are now called mass shootings. There are over 250 already this year, so the chances are ever increasing that you will eventually run into a problem,but I hope not. I saw a video of Time Square where a motorcycle backfired and it caused a panic. So you must be one of the few that is not scared.
 
independentusa said:
Well, I just hope you or your family do not run into one of these crazies. There are a lot more of them than in the past whether you believe it or not. Between 2009 and 2017 there were 173 what are now called mass shootings. There are over 250 already this year, so the chances are ever increasing that you will eventually run into a problem,but I hope not. I saw a video of Time Square where a motorcycle backfired and it caused a panic. So you must be one of the few that is not scared.
Click to expand...

Those numbers you cite do not reflect what people consider "mass shootings," i.e. match the examples of El Paso, Dayton, Las Vegas, etc.. They include any shooting with (depending on which definition used) 3 to 4 or more victims. So basic crimes, gang acts, family murder-suicide, etc., are included.

Why don't you tell us how many "mass shootings" of the type in El Paso and Dayton occurred this year? Five? Ten? How's about last year, Hmmm?

BTW, when I mentioned "good guys with guns" preventing? It is stories of those crime attempts, gang attempts, suicide-murder attempts, and yes, even nutso mass shooting attempts nipped in the bud. They simply get reported in local news, as are most of those non-El Paso "mass shootings" listed in your statistics.
 
Last edited:
independentusa said:
Armed Man Who Caused Panic at Missouri Walmart Said It Was 2nd Amendment Test, Authorities Say - The New York Times

For over 30 years the NRA and gun advocates have told us we will be safer with more guns out there and fewer places that guns are not allowed. The estimate is that we have over 300 million guns out there and there are fewer places you can not carry. In fact Texas has one of the laws that allow carry almost everywhere and yet the shooting in El Paso took place. Not only that but there are people who were interviewed who said they were carrying, but they like everyone else fled the shooting. There are even people who are so gun nuts that they are willing after what happened in the El Paso Walmart, to go into another Walmart carrying weapons similar to the El Paso shooter to prove their 2nd Amendment rights. See the article above. Needless to say there was a panic. So my question to you, as the number of mass shootings grow to record numbers, do all of these guns and laws make you feel safer?
Click to expand...

I'm far more afraid of getting killed by a drunk or lunatic driver than I am of getting killed in a mass shooting. It's funny that the latter is getting all the attention, when the former is so much more serious.
 
Nope, I am not safer if fewer places allow guns and do not have any security systems in place to enforce that rule/law. I am at far more risk of injury or death driving to and from a Walmart store than while I am in a Walmart store.
 
independentusa said:
And you think it was smart to do so at a Walmart right after what happened in El Paso. He is very lucky that some cop or some one carrying did not shoot him. Stupid people do stupid things and he is just lucky he is not dead. Of course it was his right to carry and be that stupid.
Click to expand...

Ill advised maybe, but not stupid. He was obeying all the laws that were on the books and was not doing anything that was illegal. It would've been stupid of someone to shoot him, had he not been doing anything to warrant such a response.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Those numbers you cite do not reflect what people consider "mass shootings," i.e. match the examples of El Paso, Dayton, Las Vegas, etc.. They include any shooting with (depending on which definition used) 3 to 4 or more victims. So basic crimes, gang acts, family murder-suicide, etc., are included.

Why don't you tell us how many "mass shootings" of the type in El Paso and Dayton occurred this year? Five? Ten? How's about last year, Hmmm?

BTW, when I mentioned "good guys with guns" preventing? It is stories of those crime attempts, gang attempts, suicide-murder attempts, and yes, even nutso mass shooting attempts nipped in the bud. They simply get reported in local news, as are most of those non-El Paso "mass shootings" listed in your statistics.
Click to expand...

You do realize that the mass shootings are now so often that there are several people who have been in two of them. SO the idea that you can just not worry is perhaps either brve or foolish
 
Oborosen said:
Ill advised maybe, but not stupid. He was obeying all the laws that were on the books and was not doing anything that was illegal. It would've been stupid of someone to shoot him, had he not been doing anything to warrant such a response.
Click to expand...

Just Obeying all of the laws is not always a safe thing. Remember, all of the people who were killed in both El Paso and Dayton were following all the laws. So yes, it was stupid of him, not just ill advised. He is lucky he did not encounter one of the shoot first and ask questions later policemen.
 
independentusa said:
You do realize that the mass shootings are now so often that there are several people who have been in two of them. SO the idea that you can just not worry is perhaps either brve or foolish
Click to expand...

The ONLY way this could occur is if you are talking about the "criminal mass shootings." Those involving drugs, gangs, robberies, etc.. NOT the "mass shootings" of supremacists, terrorists, or just plain nut-jobs.

What part of "gun control does nothing to stop dedicated criminals from using guns" do you fail to understand? Hint: They don't obey laws. That's why they are called "criminals."

As I pointed out to a proud anti-gun Brit, there were over 2300 gun crimes in London alone in 2018/19.

• Gun crime in London 2019 | Statista
 
Last edited:
independentusa said:
Just Obeying all of the laws is not always a safe thing. Remember, all of the people who were killed in both El Paso and Dayton were following all the laws. So yes, it was stupid of him, not just ill advised. He is lucky he did not encounter one of the shoot first and ask questions later policemen.
Click to expand...

Which would still end with the policeman being in the wrong.
 
Captain Adverse said:
The ONLY way this could occur is if you are talking about the "criminal mass shootings." Those involving drugs, gangs, robberies, etc.. NOT the "mass shootings" of supremacists, terrorists, or just plain nut-jobs.

What part of "gun control does nothing to stop dedicated criminals from using guns" do you fail to understand? Hint: They don't obey laws. That's why they are called "criminals."

As I pointed out to a proud anti-gun Brit, there were over 2300 gun crimes in London alone in 2018/19.

• Gun crime in London 2019 | Statista
Click to expand...

They tried a while back, by fluffing the numbers of gun deaths without letting anyone know that over half of them were suicides.

This is one of those instances where looking at the issue directly is a better remedy than guessing.
 
The constitution was created in a simpler time. There's no way the crafters of the constitution could have ever foreseen a society with such high rates of mental illness, depression, suicide, anxiety... etc. Although I hope for a time where guns are completely gone, I don't think forcibly addressing such a controversial topic at this time is smart. Mass shootings are the result of declining mental health. People feel like the world is out of control and increasingly difficult to navigate, and they're not wrong. The population continues to exponentially grow, we continue to degrade our environment, and social media enables every person with below average intelligence with 200,000 followers to share their baseless ideas and opinions.

We need to take control of our society, starting with population. The anti-abortion argument comes from a good place, but lacks the big picture! Every additional mouth to feed on this planet equates results in less resources for everyone else and more pressure on our natural resources.

A stable population, stable jobs, stable environment will result in stable people! The mass shootings which are a derivative of the mental state of our country will not be a relevant issue anymore.

Total rant... but most issues that are tearing people apart are only results of the deeper issues. Let's be responsible for once..
 
Captain Adverse said:
The ONLY way this could occur is if you are talking about the "criminal mass shootings." Those involving drugs, gangs, robberies, etc.. NOT the "mass shootings" of supremacists, terrorists, or just plain nut-jobs.

What part of "gun control does nothing to stop dedicated criminals from using guns" do you fail to understand? Hint: They don't obey laws. That's why they are called "criminals."

As I pointed out to a proud anti-gun Brit, there were over 2300 gun crimes in London alone in 2018/19.

• Gun crime in London 2019 | Statista
Click to expand...

No that's actually true. One really, REALLY unlucky man was at the 2017 Las Vegas music festival mass shooting, survived, but was later shot and killed at the 2018 Thousand Oaks shooting. I know it sounds impossibly unlikely, but it's not. There were more than 22,000 people at the Las Vegas shooting, many of whom lived in Southern California, and more than 200 at the Thousand Oaks bar the night it was attacked. Both establishments catered to the same general clientele, young urban partyers. It's not that far-fetched that some really unlucky guy would be in both places.

You can see a similar thing in the shared birthday puzzle. In any random group of only about 30 people, chances are even that at least two of them will share a birthday.

The fact remains that being killed in a mass shooting remains exceedingly unlikely. You are FAR more likely to be killed by someone in your family than by a random nutjob in a mall. I'm not afraid, but that's only because I can do math.
 
Last edited:
Oborosen said:
Which would still end with the policeman being in the wrong.
Click to expand...

Being in the wrong does you absolutely not good if you're dead...
 
Elvira said:
Because at least half of 'em have gotta be nuts, that's why...
Click to expand...

That's paranoid nonsense. CCW permit holders are far more law abiding than COPS.
 
TurtleDude said:
That's paranoid nonsense. CCW permit holders are far more law abiding than COPS.
Click to expand...

Nope, that is reality, bud...remember the asylums? Where are they now...out on the streets...with guns...
 
Captain Adverse said:
The ONLY way this could occur is if you are talking about the "criminal mass shootings." Those involving drugs, gangs, robberies, etc.. NOT the "mass shootings" of supremacists, terrorists, or just plain nut-jobs.

What part of "gun control does nothing to stop dedicated criminals from using guns" do you fail to understand? Hint: They don't obey laws. That's why they are called "criminals."

As I pointed out to a proud anti-gun Brit, there were over 2300 gun crimes in London alone in 2018/19.

• Gun crime in London 2019 | Statista
Click to expand...

There have been 47,220 gun incidents in the U.S. in 2018 — and here they all are on one map - MarketWatch
Here are the stats for the US for 2018. Over 47 thousand gun related. Since we do not have a central government agency that collects the data it might be many more.
 
Oborosen said:
Which would still end with the policeman being in the wrong.
Click to expand...

But if what has happened in the US to date, the policeman would walk away unscathed while your friend with the gun would be dead.
 
TurtleDude said:
That's paranoid nonsense. CCW permit holders are far more law abiding than COPS.
Click to expand...

They may be more sane but not more trained. When they passed ccw in Wisco they passed a rule that you needed very, and I mean very limited training, A friend of ours went and got the ccw and a gun. The problem was she did not even know how to take it off the safety as that was not part of the training. The training was basically how the law works and where you could carry rather than teaching anything about the use of her weapon. This neighbor to this day has never even shot a gun and that scares me and should scare you as there are many more people out there like my neighbor. What is really scary is when they were writing the law, the NRA came in and told the GOP law makers who control our legislature that they did not need to include any training requirement in the law. Even the GOP in this state would not go along with that. When I was an NRA member in my youth it was all about safety and training. Now it seems to be just the ad agency for the gun makers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom