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Let's ask guys and gals who have been in actual combat zones including urban areas...

If you served in Afghanistan or Iraq. which did you see as more risk to you?

  • A lone individual wanting to kill Americans with a high capacity AK47 (ie "assault weapon?")

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7

joko104

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Anti-gun rights people insist that AK47 and AR15 type "assault weapons" are the most horrific possible weapm to use for mass murder.

Let's ask those who face people wanting to commit murder or otherwise kill. If you served in Afghanistan or Iraq, the enemy could have any full automatic rifles they wanted - from Ak47 to 50 caliber and 20mm cannons mounted on a truck. Or they could use planted, mobile (vehicle) or suicide vest bombs.

Which did you more fear? A lone enemy with an "assault rifle" waiting for your unit to come along to shot - or an enemy with his finger over the "SEND" button on a cell phone to set of a remote bomb waiting for your unit to come along and setting it of? Did you more fear a lone individual enemy with an AK47 or someone with a bomb?

Anti gun rights people INSIST that NOTHING in the hands of the lone wannabe mass murderer can match the killing power of an AR or AK. What say you?
 
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So everyone can participate - or most - you can answer giving your opinion, but please then mention you did not serve in the military. It is a public poll.

I have not served in the military. Know (well) a Marine who was a squad leader in the Helmand District during heavy fighting and have an adult child who was in combat in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Both feared bombs. Neither feared AK47s.
 
Anti-gun rights people insist that AK47 and AR15 type "assault weapons" are the most horrific possible weapm to use for mass murder.

Let's ask those who face people wanting to commit murder or otherwise kill. If you served in Afghanistan or Iraq, the enemy could have any full automatic rifles they wanted - from Ak47 to 50 caliber and 20mm cannons mounted on a truck. Or they could use planted, mobile (vehicle) or suicide vest bombs.

Which did you more fear? A lone enemy with an "assault rifle" waiting for your unit to come along to shot - or an enemy with his finger over the "SEND" button on a cell phone to set of a remote bomb waiting for your unit to come along and setting it of? Did you more fear a lone individual enemy with an AK47 or someone with a bomb?

Anti gun rights people INSIST that NOTHING in the hands of the lone wannabe mass murderer can match the killing power of an AR or AK. What say you?

When I was boots on he ground it was mostly IEDs that I had to worry about. I've only been in four actual firefights, and only one of them was not in a urban area. Even then it was us, hunkered down until we could receive fire support.

An AR15, or an AK (models vary) is normally not something you need to worry about. Usually ARs are not loaded with that destructive of a round, especially when compared to what you see some of the older soviet models spitting out.
Just saying, if some is going to argue that an AR15 is a devastating military style weapon. Which is funny for one instance in that the US military actually doesn't use the AR15, but instead uses the M16. Though the two are extremely similar.

I'd just say that they should try being on the receiving end of sustained fire from two PKMs, before speaking up with such conviction.

We did managed to confiscate several heavier weapons in late 2007. But the problem was that they didn't have the ammunition for them.
 
Interesting how NO Democrat actually wants to discuss weapons of mass murder that have been used and are being used in the United States.

It has nothing to do with murder. It has to do with the corporate super rich - themselves protected by the guns of their private and government provided personally little armies - wanting us peasants disarmed because they don't have any reason to give a damn about us and fear some of us might want to hurt them. They have all manners of ways to hurt us including throwing any of us into a dungeon (prison) like the super rich and powerful have always like to do to their peasants who are insufficiently submissive.
 
When I was boots on he ground it was mostly IEDs that I had to worry about. I've only been in four actual firefights, and only one of them was not in a urban area. Even then it was us, hunkered down until we could receive fire support.

An AR15, or an AK (models vary) is normally not something you need to worry about. Usually ARs are not loaded with that destructive of a round, especially when compared to what you see some of the older soviet models spitting out.
Just saying, if some is going to argue that an AR15 is a devastating military style weapon. Which is funny for one instance in that the US military actually doesn't use the AR15, but instead uses the M16. Though the two are extremely similar.

I'd just say that they should try being on the receiving end of sustained fire from two PKMs, before speaking up with such conviction.

We did managed to confiscate several heavier weapons in late 2007. But the problem was that they didn't have the ammunition for them.

While the .223 and 5.56 are similar, the ammo sold in stores is not the same as the military provided. Civilian .223 or even civilian 5.56 bullets are not designed to tumble and rip thru the body. The .223 is just a high velocity 22 - the smallest of all calibers other than the .177/6mm pellet/bb gun caliber.
 
I've never experienced that kind of military action but if I had to choose it would the lone individual with an AK47 because IED bombs just don't seem to be the loner white nationalist's style.
 
Anti gun rights people INSIST that NOTHING in the hands of the lone wannabe mass murderer can match the killing power of an AR or AK.
No they don't. /thread
 
I've never experienced that kind of military action but if I had to choose it would the lone individual with an AK47 because IED bombs just don't seem to be the loner white nationalist's style.

Nor the Democrat progressive fascists choice either, although most pick the .223 AR platform, not the larger AK ammo. You want to try to force lone individuals to use bombs, don't you?

Why have a Dayton mass shooting when they could instead do Okahoma City style mass murder by a bomb, both killing and hospitalizing over 20 times as many in 1 second - and with the added bonus that the mass murderer gets away alive and unknown?
 
Is this thread relevant because in countries with strict gun control, we see a lot of mass murders with IEDs?
 
Nor the Democrat progressive fascists choice either, although most pick the .223 AR platform, not the larger AK ammo. You want to try to force lone individuals to use bombs, don't you?

Why have a Dayton mass shooting when they could instead do Okahoma City style mass murder by a bomb, both killing and hospitalizing over 20 times as many in 1 second - and with the added bonus that the mass murderer gets away alive and unknown?
Are you trying to encourage lone individuals to use bombs? Sure looks like it.

It's a lot more dangerous and requires a lot more planning to make and plant bombs than it does just walking up and shooting a gun into a crowd full of people. So far, the FBI has been pretty good at catching the right wing neo nazi fascists before they can carry out their plot and plant their bombs...not so much with lone mass shooters.

FBI Arrests Las Vegas Man For Planning Attacks on a Synagogue and a Gay Bar

Man arrested on bomb making charges after Isle of Wight FBI search | WTKR.com

Driver who caused explosion in SUV was being watched by FBI for weeks, records show - oregonlive.com

FBI, local police remain tightlipped over Beaver Dam apartment explosion investigation | Southern Poverty Law Center

Feds Charge Cesar Sayoc With Mailing Improvised Bombs To Political Critics : NPR

https://www.dhs.gov/bmap


Note that the perps mentioned in the above links were all right wing neo nazi, white supremacist, fascists. Looks like the FBI was right, they are the biggest threat to our domestic security. So either you are with them or you are against them...because there is no middle ground on this issue.
 
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Anti-gun rights people insist that AK47 and AR15 type "assault weapons" are the most horrific possible weapm to use for mass murder.

Let's ask those who face people wanting to commit murder or otherwise kill. If you served in Afghanistan or Iraq, the enemy could have any full automatic rifles they wanted - from Ak47 to 50 caliber and 20mm cannons mounted on a truck. Or they could use planted, mobile (vehicle) or suicide vest bombs.

Which did you more fear? A lone enemy with an "assault rifle" waiting for your unit to come along to shot - or an enemy with his finger over the "SEND" button on a cell phone to set of a remote bomb waiting for your unit to come along and setting it of? Did you more fear a lone individual enemy with an AK47 or someone with a bomb?

Anti gun rights people INSIST that NOTHING in the hands of the lone wannabe mass murderer can match the killing power of an AR or AK. What say you?

Who are these 'anti-gun rights' people you speak of. Links to support your positive claim?
 
Are you trying to encourage lone individuals to use bombs? Sure looks like it.

It's a lot more dangerous and requires a lot more planning to make and plant bombs than it does just walking up and shooting a gun into a crowd full of people. So far, the FBI has been pretty good at catching the right wing neo nazi fascists before they can carry out their plot and plant their bombs...not so much with lone mass shooters.

FBI Arrests Las Vegas Man For Planning Attacks on a Synagogue and a Gay Bar

Man arrested on bomb making charges after Isle of Wight FBI search | WTKR.com

Driver who caused explosion in SUV was being watched by FBI for weeks, records show - oregonlive.com

FBI, local police remain tightlipped over Beaver Dam apartment explosion investigation | Southern Poverty Law Center

Feds Charge Cesar Sayoc With Mailing Improvised Bombs To Political Critics : NPR

https://www.dhs.gov/bmap


Note that the perps mentioned in the above links were all right wing neo nazi, white supremacist, fascists. Looks like the FBI was right, they are the biggest threat to our domestic security. So either you are with them or you are against them...because there is no middle ground on this issue.

No, that is what your messages do by trying to get laws to force mass murderers to shift from 22 rifles to bombs and other more lethal ways. YOU are the danger in your advocacy and VASTLY more mass murders have been done by Democrat supporters and liberals. The Pulse nightclub shooter was YOUR side's guy. You want mass shooters advertised for and protected at schools. I want armed law enforcement present to kill them. You want mass shooters to be unopposed by law abiding citizens being disarmed. I want them gunned down. You want them to force them to shift to more lethal ways by laws to do so - and I don't.

Otherwise, you don't know what the hell you are talking about. For one, it's not the FBI catching them. It is the FBI arresting them. Other agencies are catching them. I was involved in "catching" 4 of them. Now in a super max.

You made it very clear you ONLY care about "far rightwing Neo-Nazi" mass murderers - but sub silentio and specifying you ONLY want "right wing Neo-Nazi mass murderers" stopped in your messages - A-OK with a Clinton supporter shooting over 100 LGBTs (including one we knew VERY well). Unlike YOU - I oppose all mass murder, all murder of any kind - and UNLIKE YOU I do not only oppose murdering people who agree with me politically and are like me.

By your messages you are A-OK with foreign mass murder terrorists too. It is only rightwingers mass murderers you want stopped.

Why do your messages HATE - I mean HATE! gays THAT MUCH?!!! What did a gay person every do to you to post messages with that much hatred? Why are you in your messages just fine with a Clinton supporter radical Muslim murdering our young gay friend?

Better yet, how about not making this a personal feud and debating the issue - rather than you going off on an absurd and false partisan rant only opposing rightwing murderers, silent about leftwing and foreign terrorist murderers?
 
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Is this thread relevant because in countries with strict gun control, we see a lot of mass murders with IEDs?

Maybe you should move to another country.
 
My position is simple at the bottom line. I want the 22 caliber rifle to remain the most popular sporting rifle in the country. I want them easily available. I want there to be versions such as the AR15 that look absolutely as wicked, deadly and as military as possible. For someone committed to planning out a mass murder to use a 22 rifle - not something else. They definitely are lethal. Lots of things are. Some far more.
 
No, that is what your messages do by trying to get laws to force mass murderers to shift from 22 rifles to bombs and other more lethal ways. YOU are the danger in your advocacy and VASTLY more mass murders have been done by Democrat supporters and liberals. The Pulse nightclub shooter was YOUR side's guy. You want mass shooters advertised for and protected at schools. I want armed law enforcement present to kill them. You want mass shooters to be unopposed by law abiding citizens being disarmed. I want them gunned down. You want them to force them to shift to more lethal ways by laws to do so - and I don't.

Otherwise, you don't know what the hell you are talking about. For one, it's not the FBI catching them. It is the FBI arresting them. Other agencies are catching them. I was involved in "catching" 4 of them. Now in a super max.

You made it very clear you ONLY care about "far rightwing Neo-Nazi" mass murderers - but sub silentio and specifying you ONLY want "right wing Neo-Nazi mass murderers" stopped in your messages - A-OK with a Clinton supporter shooting over 100 LGBTs (including one we knew VERY well). Unlike YOU - I oppose all mass murder, all murder of any kind - and UNLIKE YOU I do not only oppose murdering people who agree with me politically and are like me.

By your messages you are A-OK with foreign mass murder terrorists too. It is only rightwingers mass murderers you want stopped.

Why do your messages HATE - I mean HATE! gays THAT MUCH?!!! What did a gay person every do to you to post messages with that much hatred? Why are you in your messages just fine with a Clinton supporter radical Muslim murdering our young gay friend?

Better yet, how about not making this a personal feud and debating the issue - rather than you going off on an absurd and false partisan rant only opposing rightwing murderers, silent about leftwing and foreign terrorist murderers?

:screwy
 

By your messages you certainly aren't the only person of the opinion that murdering homosexuals should be allowed and it is crazy to claim otherwise. Tens to millions of Muslims - or more - agree with you. Do you also agree with them that as a woman (as you claim) you are a soulless animal? Or just agree with them about LGBTs?
 
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Anti-gun rights people insist that AK47 and AR15 type "assault weapons" are the most horrific possible weapm to use for mass murder.

Let's ask those who face people wanting to commit murder or otherwise kill. If you served in Afghanistan or Iraq, the enemy could have any full automatic rifles they wanted - from Ak47 to 50 caliber and 20mm cannons mounted on a truck. Or they could use planted, mobile (vehicle) or suicide vest bombs.

Which did you more fear? A lone enemy with an "assault rifle" waiting for your unit to come along to shot - or an enemy with his finger over the "SEND" button on a cell phone to set of a remote bomb waiting for your unit to come along and setting it of? Did you more fear a lone individual enemy with an AK47 or someone with a bomb?

Anti gun rights people INSIST that NOTHING in the hands of the lone wannabe mass murderer can match the killing power of an AR or AK. What say you?

my time was well before IED's

it was in Beirut...and the **** that scared the living hell out of me was the mortars, not the small arms

Never want to hear that sound again....
 
It's not a 'message.' It's a request for you to meet Burden of Proof for your positive claim. FAIL...

Your claim is that every Democrat on the forum opposes all the Democratic party candidates. No reason to treat you seriously about anything and should consider your messages just trolling.
 
Your claim is that every Democrat on the forum opposes all the Democratic party candidates. No reason to treat you seriously about anything and should consider your messages just trolling.

It is ? In which post # did I claim that ? and, again, I asked a question, didn't post a message. Do please try harder to keep up and cease with the fallacious allegations. thanks..
 
It is ? In which post # did I claim that ? and, again, I asked a question, didn't post a message. Do please try harder to keep up and cease with the fallacious allegations. thanks..

In other words, this thread is pointless. Got it.


I know you guys mean well, and nothing you've said is wrong, but we all know joko isn't interested at all in any kind of honest conversation most of the time. I've seen maybe like 2 good posts by him since i've been here, and they were preceded and followed by more nonsense.
 
Speaking strictly from a medical treatment standpoint, IED's were the worst; I spent my last tour in Iraq at the Liberty base trauma room during the surge...IED's always result in extensive polytrauma; burns, penetrating/perforating wounds, blast amputation, and overpressure injuries which rupture hollow organs and cause major internal and cerebral hemorrhage which you couldn't always see.

That, and depending on the device and location, the blast could be anything from a small crater with a small blast radius ( 5-10 meters), to a blast that could flip a Bradley onto its back and leave a hole the size of a swimming pool, with a blast radius the size of a football field.
 
It is ? In which post # did I claim that ? and, again, I asked a question, didn't post a message. Do please try harder to keep up and cease with the fallacious allegations. thanks..

First, prove you exist if we are entering your theater of absurd diversions in your messages.
 
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