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What is more important to you, life or guns?

independentusa

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Every heard the of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is in the Declaration of Independence. I find it interesting that as part of our God given rights, life comes before liberty and happiness. In our country that is no longer true. Life seems to come after guns. To so many Americans the loss of life is just what people have to pay so they can have all and any type of guns they want. Some on this board actually believe that the weapons they should be able to own include something like the M259 Saw, a weapon that is fully automatic and can put out up to 800 rounds per minute. Just think how many lives would have been lost if the Dayton or El Paso shooter would have been able to buy that kind of weapon at any gun shop? I come from a military family and none of my family think that the public should be able to buy military weapons. I think we ought to change the Declaration to say instead of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to "semiautomatics rifles, automatic pistols and body armor". Doesn't have the same punch, but is more closely in tune with modern day America.
 
Every heard the of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is in the Declaration of Independence. I find it interesting that as part of our God given rights, life comes before liberty and happiness. In our country that is no longer true. Life seems to come after guns. To so many Americans the loss of life is just what people have to pay so they can have all and any type of guns they want. Some on this board actually believe that the weapons they should be able to own include something like the M259 Saw, a weapon that is fully automatic and can put out up to 800 rounds per minute. Just think how many lives would have been lost if the Dayton or El Paso shooter would have been able to buy that kind of weapon at any gun shop? I come from a military family and none of my family think that the public should be able to buy military weapons. I think we ought to change the Declaration to say instead of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to "semiautomatics rifles, automatic pistols and body armor". Doesn't have the same punch, but is more closely in tune with modern day America.
Well if your family thinks so that is good enough for me.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Well if your family thinks so that is good enough for me.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Of course you did not answer the question, life or guns? It seems at this time in this country that is your choice? Is he loss of life okay with you so you can have guns?
 
Every heard the of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is in the Declaration of Independence. I find it interesting that as part of our God given rights, life comes before liberty and happiness. In our country that is no longer true. Life seems to come after guns. To so many Americans the loss of life is just what people have to pay so they can have all and any type of guns they want. Some on this board actually believe that the weapons they should be able to own include something like the M259 Saw, a weapon that is fully automatic and can put out up to 800 rounds per minute. Just think how many lives would have been lost if the Dayton or El Paso shooter would have been able to buy that kind of weapon at any gun shop? I come from a military family and none of my family think that the public should be able to buy military weapons. I think we ought to change the Declaration to say instead of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to "semiautomatics rifles, automatic pistols and body armor". Doesn't have the same punch, but is more closely in tune with modern day America.

who cares what your family thinks. Means nothing to me-my Nephew is about to get his LtC promotion after years in the Rangers and then 10 years in the Special Forces. He thinks any firearm that one can reasonable bear (carry) is clearly protected by the second amendment. Most of us who actually understand that the second amendment is a bar on federal action, do too. This silly thread appears to be another rant about gun ownership.
 
Of course you did not answer the question, life or guns? It seems at this time in this country that is your choice? Is he loss of life okay with you so you can have guns?

That is a stupid dichotomy. Would you be willing to give up your life to try to take guns from someone? is that what you are asking? or are you asking if someone would die defending their rights? Since you cannot use a firearm when you are dead-the choice you ask is really pretty stupid. Maybe you should clarify what you are asking a bit more clearly?
 
Every heard the of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is in the Declaration of Independence. I find it interesting that as part of our God given rights, life comes before liberty and happiness. In our country that is no longer true. Life seems to come after guns. To so many Americans the loss of life is just what people have to pay so they can have all and any type of guns they want. Some on this board actually believe that the weapons they should be able to own include something like the M259 Saw, a weapon that is fully automatic and can put out up to 800 rounds per minute. Just think how many lives would have been lost if the Dayton or El Paso shooter would have been able to buy that kind of weapon at any gun shop? I come from a military family and none of my family think that the public should be able to buy military weapons. I think we ought to change the Declaration to say instead of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to "semiautomatics rifles, automatic pistols and body armor". Doesn't have the same punch, but is more closely in tune with modern day America.

What? Implying something? Why not just come out and say so?
 
Every heard the of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is in the Declaration of Independence. I find it interesting that as part of our God given rights, life comes before liberty and happiness. In our country that is no longer true. Life seems to come after guns. To so many Americans the loss of life is just what people have to pay so they can have all and any type of guns they want. Some on this board actually believe that the weapons they should be able to own include something like the M259 Saw, a weapon that is fully automatic and can put out up to 800 rounds per minute. Just think how many lives would have been lost if the Dayton or El Paso shooter would have been able to buy that kind of weapon at any gun shop? I come from a military family and none of my family think that the public should be able to buy military weapons. I think we ought to change the Declaration to say instead of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to "semiautomatics rifles, automatic pistols and body armor". Doesn't have the same punch, but is more closely in tune with modern day America.
Not an either/or situation for a vast, vast, vast percentage of the population. "Those that would give up liberty for temporary security deserve neither" or words to that effect.
 
Of course you did not answer the question, life or guns? It seems at this time in this country that is your choice? Is he loss of life okay with you so you can have guns?

The problem with that, independentusa, is that is an emotional argument that does not hold up to scrutiny at all when you apply the same argument to any given right.

For example:

Is the loss of life okay with you so that we can have freedom of speech?

Is the loss of life okay with you so that people can exercise their right to vote?

Is the loss of life okay with you so that we may maintain the right to trial by jury?

If, in some contrived situation, you had to bear the loss of the lives of your family members in order to preserve any of the above rights, which of these rights would you choose to keep knowing that your family would all be killed? Which would you sacrifice in order to save your family?
 
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For most gun owners, guns are much more important than other's lives. Turtle is your perfect example.

I would put life above firearms but that's me.
 
For most gun owners, guns are much more important than other's lives. Turtle is your perfect example.

I would put life above firearms but that's me.

Would you tell me, bongsaway, which other rights and freedoms would you be willing to do away with entirely within our society in order to protect your own life or the lives of others? The right to free speech? The right to vote? The right to trial by jury? Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure?

If every member of your family and circle of friends' necks were on a chopping block, and you had to choose between watching them all be bloodily executed and preserving these rights, or preserving their lives and seeing these rights done away with, how would you choose?
 
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For most gun owners, guns are much more important than other's lives. Turtle is your perfect example.

I would put life above firearms but that's me.

that's really really stupid. I am armed and well trained because I highly value my life and the lives of my family and friends and I am in a better position to protect those lives than cowardly gun haters who want to cower and hide, hoping the cops appear soon enough to save something they don't think is worth protecting in the first place.
 
Would you tell me, bongsaway, which other rights and freedoms would you be willing to do away with entirely within our society in order to protect your own life or the lives of others? The right to free speech? The right to vote? The right to trial by jury? Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure?

I cannot recall who said it-it was a well known expert on self defense-a police officer who also is a well respected trainer and court expert on these issues. He said if you aren't willing to try to protect your own life, why should some 25 year old police officer with a family be willing to risk his life to protect something you aren't willing to protect yourself.
 
Of course you did not answer the question, life or guns? It seems at this time in this country that is your choice? Is he loss of life okay with you so you can have guns?
Its a false question. I support peoples right to own weapons but i dont put that right ahead of someone right to live.what your implying is that someone who owns a gun is interfering with my right to live and thats not true.



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Every heard the of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is in the Declaration of Independence. I find it interesting that as part of our God given rights, life comes before liberty and happiness. In our country that is no longer true. Life seems to come after guns. To so many Americans the loss of life is just what people have to pay so they can have all and any type of guns they want. Some on this board actually believe that the weapons they should be able to own include something like the M259 Saw, a weapon that is fully automatic and can put out up to 800 rounds per minute. Just think how many lives would have been lost if the Dayton or El Paso shooter would have been able to buy that kind of weapon at any gun shop? I come from a military family and none of my family think that the public should be able to buy military weapons. I think we ought to change the Declaration to say instead of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to "semiautomatics rifles, automatic pistols and body armor". Doesn't have the same punch, but is more closely in tune with modern day America.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not guaranteed. Only opportunity to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is guaranteed.
Time to come to the realization that self-preservation from carrying and employing a lethal weapon, (guns. knives, fists) can help preserve my life and liberty, and of course, preserve my continued happiness.
 
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Every heard the of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is in the Declaration of Independence. I find it interesting that as part of our God given rights, life comes before liberty and happiness. In our country that is no longer true. Life seems to come after guns. To so many Americans the loss of life is just what people have to pay so they can have all and any type of guns they want. Some on this board actually believe that the weapons they should be able to own include something like the M259 Saw, a weapon that is fully automatic and can put out up to 800 rounds per minute. Just think how many lives would have been lost if the Dayton or El Paso shooter would have been able to buy that kind of weapon at any gun shop? I come from a military family and none of my family think that the public should be able to buy military weapons. I think we ought to change the Declaration to say instead of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to "semiautomatics rifles, automatic pistols and body armor". Doesn't have the same punch, but is more closely in tune with modern day America.

I choose option C both life and guns. I like life and I like guns and they both go together like peanut butter and jelly. So yes. You think a SAW is bad just wait till you see .223 mini gun in action. 10,000 rounds a minute. A literal bullet hose. Not hard to make at all. Main problem is keeping the hungry thing fed with ammunition and that aint cheap. The ammunition costs $2300.00 for the cheap Russian crap 10,000 about one full minute of firing time. To manufacture the gun would cost around $7500.00 or so depending on the parts and materials and process's used and the machining costs. You fire 30,000 thousand rounds through it and you spend in ammo what you spent to make it. XM214 Microgun - Wikipedia
 
who cares what your family thinks. Means nothing to me-my Nephew is about to get his LtC promotion after years in the Rangers and then 10 years in the Special Forces. He thinks any firearm that one can reasonable bear (carry) is clearly protected by the second amendment. Most of us who actually understand that the second amendment is a bar on federal action, do too. This silly thread appears to be another rant about gun ownership.
Im not sure why we need to have a supreme court now that i have been made aware that he has a family. We should make their opinions law.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Every heard the of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is in the Declaration of Independence. I find it interesting that as part of our God given rights, life comes before liberty and happiness. In our country that is no longer true. Life seems to come after guns. To so many Americans the loss of life is just what people have to pay so they can have all and any type of guns they want. Some on this board actually believe that the weapons they should be able to own include something like the M259 Saw, a weapon that is fully automatic and can put out up to 800 rounds per minute. Just think how many lives would have been lost if the Dayton or El Paso shooter would have been able to buy that kind of weapon at any gun shop? I come from a military family and none of my family think that the public should be able to buy military weapons. I think we ought to change the Declaration to say instead of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to "semiautomatics rifles, automatic pistols and body armor". Doesn't have the same punch, but is more closely in tune with modern day America.

If you had been in the New Life Church in Colorado Springs on a particular Sunday in 2007, you would be in a position in which you must admit that YOUR life was spared because of one woman who had a gun, knew how to use it and had the courage to kill the man who wanted to kill you.

Your stupid question is dismissed.
 
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I choose option C both life and guns. I like life and I like guns and they both go together like peanut butter and jelly. So yes. You think a SAW is bad just wait till you see .223 mini gun in action. 10,000 rounds a minute. A literal bullet hose. Not hard to make at all. Main problem is keeping the hungry thing fed with ammunition and that aint cheap. The ammunition costs $2300.00 for the cheap Russian crap 10,000 about one full minute of firing time. To manufacture the gun would cost around $7500.00 or so depending on the parts and materials and process's used and the machining costs. You fire 30,000 thousand rounds through it and you spend in ammo what you spent to make it. XM214 Microgun - Wikipedia

that is 4K a minute faster than anything I thought the military had available
 
What? Implying something? Why not just come out and say so?

What, like the UK has a murder rate 5 times lower than the US murder rate?

Even London, on the news for being really violent, has a murder rate lower than the US average, which is lower than any US city with a population of 280,000 or more.

Perspective. London has a murder rate of 1.5. The US's is about 5. St Louis's is 66.07.
 
What, like the UK has a murder rate 5 times lower than the US murder rate?

Even London, on the news for being really violent, has a murder rate lower than the US average, which is lower than any US city with a population of 280,000 or more.

Perspective. London has a murder rate of 1.5. The US's is about 5. St Louis's is 66.07.

what relevance does that have?
 
What, like the UK has a murder rate 5 times lower than the US murder rate?

Even London, on the news for being really violent, has a murder rate lower than the US average, which is lower than any US city with a population of 280,000 or more.

Perspective. London has a murder rate of 1.5. The US's is about 5. St Louis's is 66.07.

London, 2nd A. Lets focus.
 
London, 2nd A. Lets focus.

What? I'm I supposed to be able to understand your shorthand?

This isn't about the Second Amendment. This is about guns or life. Focus.
 
that is 4K a minute faster than anything I thought the military had available

He has been fiddling with it for some time but he has had it that fast. Its just a question of barrel life. The kicker is the standard gun weighs only 16lbs. XM556 Microgun — Empty Shell llc Light enough for hand held use.

Garwood makes one in 7.62 Garwood Industries | M134, Minigun, Helicopter Gatling Gun

The original GE xm214 were designed to go that high. Problem is round size. Its too small. The M134 original manufactured by GE goes up to 6000 rounds a minute typically though it can get to 10000 at a cost to barrel life.
 
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He has been fiddling with it for some time but he has had it that fast. Its just a question of barrel life. The kicker is the standard gun weighs only 16lbs. XM556 Microgun — Empty Shell llc Light enough for hand held use.

Garwood makes one in 7.62 Garwood Industries | M134, Minigun, Helicopter Gatling Gun

The original GE xm214 were designed to go that high. Problem is round size. Its too small. The M134 original manufactured by GE goes up to 6000 rounds a minute typically though it can get to 10000 at a cost to barrel life.

when I was much younger, I went to WPAFB and they had a 308 mini gun on display. the ordnance officer noted they changed the barrels out just about every mission and they measured the gun at 65% of the bullets in some circle (maybe 100 yards diameter) a mile away.
 
when I was much younger, I went to WPAFB and they had a 308 mini gun on display. the ordnance officer noted they changed the barrels out just about every mission and they measured the gun at 65% of the bullets in some circle (maybe 100 yards diameter) a mile away.

Believe it or not but barrel life on modern XM134's are rated for 200,000 rounds and they typically have superior moa than single barrel machine guns in the same caliber. Its why they have been putting them in aircraft door gunner positions lately.
 
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