Gun talk thread for gun enthusiasts

[Glitch]

Is it a Russian SKS?

No, Romanian-made.

 

[TurtleDude]

Two thoughts.

There is definitely a psychological edge when racking a pump shotgun. Its an attention getter. (along with the big barrel looking at you).

Secondly.. I have found that a number of semi autos.. (especially benellis)..have a little safety feature that if the action is jarred, the gun will not fire. I know the Benelli 20 gauge I bought for my child would do that if you say hopped down off a rock while chukar hunting. You had to get used to putting your hand on the action and stopping the charging handle from moving if you were doing anything that would jar the gun.

Not sure I want that in a firearm I am using for self defense.

Interesting, I and a couple others (one a top 5 USPSA pro, the other a highly decorated special forces fellow who did some additional "contract" work overseas) did a test that was the subject of an article in a magazine about 30 years ago-we tested a Benelli and a Custom 1187. On top of that I probably have 20,000 clays targets shot with a Beretta 391, and my son shot a few thousand with an 1100 remington. Then I have shot a Benelli or SLP-1 in a few dozen 3G events: my son shoots a Remington Versamax and my wife a police version of an 1187. I also have run a Mossberg Miculeck 3G rig a few dozen times too and I have no idea what you are referring to on self loaders.

 

[jdog21]

I love my Colt hammerless 1903 reissue. 32 acp is small and cheap with easy to use for the wife as well.

 

[Glitch]

I love my Colt hammerless 1903 reissue. 32 acp is small and cheap with easy to use for the wife as well.

Interesting. I presume it is a double-action revolver? I've seen them at gun shows, but I know very little about them.

 

[jdog21]

Interesting. I presume it is a double-action revolver? I've seen them at gun shows, but I know very little about them.

No semi automatic, the hammer is just contained in the slide so it can be easily placed in your pocket

 

[Glitch]

No semi automatic, the hammer is just contained in the slide so it can be easily placed in your pocket

Very nice. Definitely hang on to that. It was only a couple years before (1890 in England and 1895 in the US), that the very first gas-operated firearms were manufactured.

 

[nekrodev]

Just had to re-up on ammo. Got my optic sighted in and plinked way more than was necessary the last time I went to the range, but it was a really ghetto outdoor range and we were using makeshift targets - was down to like...maybe one 50rd mag and some change. Need to hit an indoor range soon and make sure everything's holding well, and sight in my laser for shorter distances.

 

[nekrodev]

uh, also a pic now that i'm home

 

[jaeger19]

Interesting, I and a couple others (one a top 5 USPSA pro, the other a highly decorated special forces fellow who did some additional "contract" work overseas) did a test that was the subject of an article in a magazine about 30 years ago-we tested a Benelli and a Custom 1187. On top of that I probably have 20,000 clays targets shot with a Beretta 391, and my son shot a few thousand with an 1100 remington. Then I have shot a Benelli or SLP-1 in a few dozen 3G events: my son shoots a Remington Versamax and my wife a police version of an 1187. I also have run a Mossberg Miculeck 3G rig a few dozen times too and I have no idea what you are referring to on self loaders.

Try this. Obviously an unloaded Benelli or if you prefer, one with a snap cap. **** it so its ready to fire... then jar the stock (butt first) on the ground (lightly of course). Then try to fire the weapon. You will find that it will not fire. Take a look at the mechanism in the action and you will see that the "bolt" face is slightly rotated. You can do the same thing if you are handling the firearm and jump down from a foot or so. The inertia will jar the action and it will slightly rotate come out of battery and then not fire.

I don't know if this happens with other autoloaders because I only have benellis.. but it definitely happens.. and not just mine.

 

[TurtleDude]

Try this. Obviously an unloaded Benelli or if you prefer, one with a snap cap. **** it so its ready to fire... then jar the stock (butt first) on the ground (lightly of course). Then try to fire the weapon. You will find that it will not fire. Take a look at the mechanism in the action and you will see that the "bolt" face is slightly rotated. You can do the same thing if you are handling the firearm and jump down from a foot or so. The inertia will jar the action and it will slightly rotate come out of battery and then not fire.

I don't know if this happens with other autoloaders because I only have benellis.. but it definitely happens.. and not just mine.

Interesting, next time I pull one of the benellis out, I will try that. I have a few but since I now use the SLP-1 I have them in the back of a big safe

 

[jaeger19]

Interesting, next time I pull one of the benellis out, I will try that. I have a few but since I now use the SLP-1 I have them in the back of a big safe

It does it on my SBE II, and my montelfeltro, my sons m2 (when he had it) and my younger sons legacy.

 

[joko104]

uh, also a pic now that i'm home

View attachment 67262147

Do you have one of those? I looked into it and they seems problematical - such as the trigger firing rod. I like a VERY precise and light touch trigger and somehow that rod doesn't seem to meet that goal. It doesn't seem very rugged and cleaning the rifle looks like hell! One of THE best things about an AR is how easily they are broken down. But it doesn't look that much harder than most typical rifles I suppose. I had a bullpup 5.56 (Micro Tech - maybe misspelled that), sold it - and wished I hadn't. The company went broke and they've gone up in value.

Then again, I definitely like a bullpup design. It did seem the better of the 2 offered for AR15s. If it's your's, rate its pluses and minuses.

 

[TurtleDude]

Do you have one of those? I looked into it and they seems problematical - such as the trigger firing rod. I like a VERY precise and light touch trigger and somehow that rod doesn't seem to meet that goal. It doesn't seem very rugged and cleaning the rifle looks like hell! One of THE best things about an AR is how easily they are broken down. But it doesn't look that much harder than most typical rifles I suppose. I had a bullpup 5.56 (Micro Tech - maybe misspelled that), sold it - and wished I hadn't. The company went broke and they've gone up in value.

Then again, I definitely like a bullpup design. It did seem the better of the 2 offered for AR15s. If it's your's, rate its pluses and minuses.

I have an original AUG and the MICROTECH copy. Main issues with Bullpups

the triggers suck compared to even crappy mil spec ones in ARs, and when you put a Geissele or a Hiperfire or a Timney or even the cheaper RISE triggers in an AR 15, the gap is even worse.

Trying to change mags from a Prone position also sucketh big time

 

[nekrodev]

Do you have one of those? I looked into it and they seems problematical - such as the trigger firing rod. I like a VERY precise and light touch trigger and somehow that rod doesn't seem to meet that goal. It doesn't seem very rugged and cleaning the rifle looks like hell! One of THE best things about an AR is how easily they are broken down. But it doesn't look that much harder than most typical rifles I suppose. I had a bullpup 5.56 (Micro Tech - maybe misspelled that), sold it - and wished I hadn't. The company went broke and they've gone up in value.

Then again, I definitely like a bullpup design. It did seem the better of the 2 offered for AR15s. If it's your's, rate its pluses and minuses.

Yeah, that's mine in the pic. They're super reliable, and you wouldn't even believe how easy it is to clean and maintain. The trigger isn't the greatest, but you can have it worked on, the weight reduced by up to half and the pull by a tad. Here's a video of the takedown -

 

[nekrodev]

Trying to change mags from a Prone position also sucketh big time

not an issue with the P90 and PS90, since the mag is on top

 

[joko104]

Two thoughts.

There is definitely a psychological edge when racking a pump shotgun. Its an attention getter. (along with the big barrel looking at you).

Secondly.. I have found that a number of semi autos.. (especially benellis)..have a little safety feature that if the action is jarred, the gun will not fire. I know the Benelli 20 gauge I bought for my child would do that if you say hopped down off a rock while chukar hunting. You had to get used to putting your hand on the action and stopping the charging handle from moving if you were doing anything that would jar the gun.

Not sure I want that in a firearm I am using for self defense.

The plus of a pump shotgun is you can run any kind of shell thru it - why police use them. The disadvantage is they have a very slow rate of fire. They are also very cheap to buy - as low as under $200 new. I think buying one without a stock (just rear pistol grip) is unwise. Semi-autos are fast and a tad less recoil, but some are particular about what shells you run thru it - specifically not enough blow back to fully cycle in a new shell.

As I'e stated, I opt for a double barrel 12 gauge twin hammers (exposed) coach shotgun (shorter barrel). One barrel with a slug and the other with 00. I carry 5 shells in a stock holder - one of which is a bean bag. The others are 2 each slugs and 00 buck shot (nine 33 caliber balls).

Cocking both hammers certainly would get someone's attention - in addition to looking down twin barrels. If it were not to fire I would know if the hammer is the problem - plus if it won't lock I can manually pull it back and release it anyway. If one shell is bad or one barrel doesn't fire, I still have the other. Most of all, I can fire both at the same time - for absolute maximum instant take-down power. In a showdown with a wild hog, that ability to fire both barrels certainly saved my life.

The danger in virtually any self defense situation is someone suddenly charging at you - possibly with a knife or other weapon. Thus, the priority is not killing the person, not shooting the person, but hitting that person with as much energy with as many bullets as possible. At close quarter the spread of those 33 caliber pellets would only be a few inches at the most - and a slug hit with massive energy - unloading it all into the target. so if both barrels are fired at the same moment the target is hit with NINE 33 caliber lead balls and one 69 caliber lead ball. That'll take the fight out of anyone.

Simple I like a double barrel for absolute certainty I can instantly fire even if there is an ammo/firearm failure as it is actually two shotguns on one stock - and can do so with maximum hitting power. In self defense, speed of eliminating the danger is nearly always the most important aspect - not how many bad guys you can shoot. The reason for high capacity in a pistol is the likelihood of missing - where missing is defined as a hit that doesn't instantly stop the attacker and not just hitting the attack with bullets. Even if hitting the heart or aorta, that person still minimally has seconds of fight left - and that is plenty of time to shoot or stab you.

What if there are 3? First, that is extremely unlikely. Second, there probably aren't 2 of them willing to die for the 3rd one. Third, I still have a very heavy but manageable steel pipe and finally there is the prospect of reloading - plus my little 7 shot 380 with a laser grip in my pocket.

There is one other advantage unique to myself. I have total confidence in that shotgun. I am very good and fast with a shotgun in general. Confidence in your firearm is quite important as a surprise instant attack is already startling enough. You have to believe in your firearm without hesitation - and it has to be able to do the task without any reservation or shortcoming. There's not a human who ever lived who could continue to advance after being hit in the chest with a 69 caliber slug and nine 33 caliber slugs.

 

[joko104]

Yeah, that's mine in the pic. They're super reliable, and you wouldn't even believe how easy it is to clean and maintain. The trigger isn't the greatest, but you can have it worked on, the weight reduced by up to half and the pull by a tad. Here's a video of the takedown -

Nice. I might set up a 300 blackout that way.

 

[jaeger19]

The plus of a pump shotgun is you can run any kind of shell thru it - why police use them. The disadvantage is they have a very slow rate of fire. They are also very cheap to buy - as low as under $200 new. I think buying one without a stock (just rear pistol grip) is unwise. Semi-autos are fast and a tad less recoil, but some are particular about what shells you run thru it - specifically not enough blow back to fully cycle in a new shell.

As I'e stated, I opt for a double barrel 12 gauge twin hammers (exposed) coach shotgun (shorter barrel). One barrel with a slug and the other with 00. I carry 5 shells in a stock holder - one of which is a bean bag. The others are 2 each slugs and 00 buck shot (nine 33 caliber balls).

Cocking both hammers certainly would get someone's attention - in addition to looking down twin barrels. If it were not to fire I would know if the hammer is the problem - plus if it won't lock I can manually pull it back and release it anyway. If one shell is bad or one barrel doesn't fire, I still have the other. Most of all, I can fire both at the same time - for absolute maximum instant take-down power. In a showdown with a wild hog, that ability to fire both barrels certainly saved my life.

The danger in virtually any self defense situation is someone suddenly charging at you - possibly with a knife or other weapon. Thus, the priority is not killing the person, not shooting the person, but hitting that person with as much energy with as many bullets as possible. At close quarter the spread of those 33 caliber pellets would only be a few inches at the most - and a slug hit with massive energy - unloading it all into the target. so if both barrels are fired at the same moment the target is hit with NINE 33 caliber lead balls and one 69 caliber lead ball. That'll take the fight out of anyone.

Simple I like a double barrel for absolute certainty I can instantly fire even if there is an ammo/firearm failure as it is actually two shotguns on one stock - and can do so with maximum hitting power. In self defense, speed of eliminating the danger is nearly always the most important aspect - not how many bad guys you can shoot. The reason for high capacity in a pistol is the likelihood of missing - where missing is defined as a hit that doesn't instantly stop the attacker and not just hitting the attack with bullets. Even if hitting the heart or aorta, that person still minimally has seconds of fight left - and that is plenty of time to shoot or stab you.

What if there are 3? First, that is extremely unlikely. Second, there probably aren't 2 of them willing to die for the 3rd one. Third, I still have a very heavy but manageable steel pipe and finally there is the prospect of reloading - plus my little 7 shot 380 with a laser grip in my pocket.

There is one other advantage unique to myself. I have total confidence in that shotgun. I am very good and fast with a shotgun in general. Confidence in your firearm is quite important as a surprise instant attack is already startling enough. You have to believe in your firearm without hesitation - and it has to be able to do the task without any reservation or shortcoming. There's not a human who ever lived who could continue to advance after being hit in the chest with a 69 caliber slug and nine 33 caliber slugs.

Pump actions don't have a really slow rate of fire. And if you are looking at moving targets.. the difference in speed between an autoloader and a pump is negligible. (the time it takes to see an acquire another target leaves plenty of time for either a pump or an autoloader.. negating any advantage in speed)

the only time a semi automatic shotgun would be "faster"..would be shooting at a stationary target.

 

[Glitch]

Pump actions don't have a really slow rate of fire. And if you are looking at moving targets.. the difference in speed between an autoloader and a pump is negligible. (the time it takes to see an acquire another target leaves plenty of time for either a pump or an autoloader.. negating any advantage in speed)

the only time a semi automatic shotgun would be "faster"..would be shooting at a stationary target.

You are absolutely correct, of course. Even with stationary targets I can cycle my Winchester Model 1912 pump-action shotgun faster than semi-automatics. Although I do admit bias. All my experiences with semi-auto shotguns resulted in them jamming. I don't have that problem with a pump-action shotgun, even when firing 3" shells.

 

[joko104]

Day/night scope versus thermal?

A thermal is a real challenge for anything BUT hunting as the visual image otherwise is terrible. However, it can spot warm blooded animals.

A day/night scope (depending on type) offers better visibility day or night, but is still not easy to see game at night. They definitely are better of target shooting or other plunking. They also can be used in conjunction with a laser that is in a lightwave only visible thru the scope - putting a dot on the target seen thru the scope

Both are seriously slower and more difficult to use during the day generally speaking (though a thermal could possibly see a hog back in the undergrowth).

Opinions?

 

[Glitch]

Day/night scope versus thermal?

A thermal is a real challenge for anything BUT hunting as the visual image otherwise is terrible. However, it can spot warm blooded animals.

A day/night scope (depending on type) offers better visibility day or night, but is still not easy to see game at night. They definitely are better of target shooting or other plunking. They also can be used in conjunction with a laser that is in a lightwave only visible thru the scope - putting a dot on the target seen thru the scope

Both are seriously slower and more difficult to use during the day generally speaking (though a thermal could possibly see a hog back in the undergrowth).

Opinions?

I have a couple of regular scopes, but I don't use them.

I've got a fixed 2x power scope for the Ruger Super Redhawk, which is fine for target practice. However, it takes a little to long to adjust the eye-relief in order to be effective in the field. Plus, it is even more awkward carrying a long-barreled revolver with a scope because the only way you can carry it is across the chest.

I also have a variable 3x9 that I got for my Winchester 300 Win. Mag., but since the overwhelming majority of the moose I've taken have been within 100 yards, I just use the mechanical sights.

Daylight doesn't really start becoming an issue until September in Alaska. In August it will stay daylight well past 10:00 PM and the sun will rise by 5:00 AM. By November we're shooting grouse and ptarmigan by the light of the moon, or the northern lights, because it is almost always dark. By Winter Solstice there is only 3.5 hours of daylight where I hunt.

 

[joko104]

I opted to go with a Gen 4 thermal scope, not night vision scope, because I can use the thermal off the rifle for spotting wildlife at night, particularly while boating. In the dense growth spotting wildlife is difficult but can just use a spotlight for that.

It's supposed to be a decent scope. Has an upgraded laser attachment, I have a wireless controller for that I can put for my left hand - so not to have to take my hand off the trigger to adjust the zoom etc. It is a range finder, has 1 shot zeroing technology, measures wind speed and direction, and suggests how to correct aiming vertically and horizontally in 1/10th inch increments. 8 hour run time with a 20 hour back up battery pack.

It will go on the .300 blackout 10.5 inch pistol setup on a quick release mount, so could be move to any of the other 3 complete upper assemblies - each with have their own sighting and optics. The other 3 are:
2.23/5.56 inch 16 inch Wylde fluted barrel (target shooting and training)
20 inch .300 blackout twist fluted barrel (in the even 200+ yard shots may be necessary) and
.22LR conversion with 16 inch bull (heavy/thick) barrel. (cheap practice shooting and can plunking)

The 10.5 inch barrel pistol set up is for nighttime hunting and hiking, plus I have a holographic sight to sight in to replace the thermal with for daytime usage.

My AR15 collection is just about complete. I am not interested in pistol round conversion upper assemblies.

 

[joko104]

I am color coding the .300 blackouts and .22LR upper assemblies by painting a colored strip on the flash hiders (not muzzle brakes) - matched to color coding on the magazines.Red = 30 caliber. White = 22LR. Match the barrel assembly color (painted on) to the magazine color (vinyl tape). The .223/5.56 assembly and magazines are left black.

I now have 4 complete upper barrel assemblies and 2 complete lower assemblies - one rifle and the other pistol, including each having it's own bolt carrier and charging handle, rail, flash hider and sighted in optics - so swap-out takes a minute by just pulling 2 breakdown tabs.

The color coding is to avoid putting a 30 caliber magazine in a .223 barrel assembly by accident. I've seen videos of the result. I'd prefer not to blow out the side of the AR and would like to keep my left arm.

My Mini 14 is loaded with 2.23 hollow points and is now my truck's toolbox rifle just-in-case. It has a 20 round magazine on it, is not chambered, but otherwise ready to rock and roll. Plan to add a laser sight to it when I get around to it. I saw no reason to put a 30 round mag on it - but have extra loaded magazines in the case it's in including 30 round mags - and the little 5 round flush magazine isn't quite enough for comfort.

! prefer shooting the ordinary looking Mini 14, but it is not as versatile as the AR15 design. The upper rail of the AR15 is not a comfortable as the upper wood stock on the Mini 14.

 

[joko104]

Just picked up an Eotech red dot and side-flip 3X magnifier. They are proud of their products!

I'll swap that out for a cheap optical scope on the .223/5.56 Wylde 16 inch barrel. It is a cheap scope and I asked what he suggested as a replacement. This was his suggestion. Ouch! But it is a nice setup. The cost of the basic rifle is becoming almost an irrelevancy compared to the collective prices of the upgrades and attachments.

 

[joko104]

I think the idea of a 'scout rifle' is like many firearm theories and working concepts- driven as much by the name behind it as the utility. His idea began when bolt guns were loadable by 5 round stripper clips loaded through a slot cut into the receiver. A scope got in the way of that process (some sniper rifles cut the slot at an angle to the right side of the receiver opening so the stripper clip could be used even with a scope over top. The forward mounting of the scout's scope has never been widely embraced by the shooting community- lack of field of view and eye relief the biggest issues. When the good Colonel drew up his idea, scopes didn't have a long track record under rugged conditions. Back up sights were a requirement but time has shown their usefulness questionable at best.

The 'built-in' bipod has proven problematic as most bipod users swear by the swivel versions with adjustable legs. No rifle you mentioned would set up well on anything but level solid ground (a rifle range) Bipod feet keep the bipod from sinking into softer ground.

Caliber can be an issue as well... while I like the concept of a large enough chunk of lead for the job, recoil can be problematic. My idea of a scout rifle (range limited) would be the shorter cases, maybe the 300 Blackout or 7.62X 39. If I don't face dangerous game (and truly who does?) the 260 would be great in an all day carry rifle. I understand the attraction of more rounds on the rifle as a reload. I have a stock ammo carrier on my LTR, but mostly it's a cut down plastic sleeve in my coat pocket.

As far as shoot n scoot, many 'commandos' are a bit on the girthy/older side and running for it might look more like waddle or hobble...

I have a 45, pump, two overweight 308's (gas and bolt) for comp/ LR work and my idea of a scout rifle- a camo'd up LTR. My old AK doesn't get much work these days- don't go hog hunting in the creek bottoms much these days.

I reload my own, so one caliber works well enough for me when it comes to rifles- from a racoon raiding my feeder to a 300 lb+ boar hog it works well enough for me. but I have a few other hammers, just like the feel and utility of my 308.... eace

Sure .308 is enough for raccoons? Maybe you should bump up to a .338 Lapua to be on the safe side. Some of those raccoons are vicious! :2razz:

I find reloaders interesting. Do you do it for $$ savings? Or as a hobby?