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Thread: More thoughts, more prayers and more dead, it will never end!

  1. #61
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    Re: More thoughts, more prayers and more dead, it will never end!

    Quote Originally Posted by veritas1 View Post
    The guy at VA Tech killed 32 with two handguns. The gun is merely the tool. It is the thoughts, the lack of conscience, the lack of morals, the cynicism, the lack of self worth, the feelings of isolation, the exposure to harmful influences (internet, TV, movies, etc) and the need for instant gratification, which often leads to these things. THAT is what needs to be fixed.

    Any person intent on these types of crimes will accomplish them. We've always had lots and lots of guns and, in the past, much more lax laws, but these kinds of shootings were extremely rare. When you have fractured families, isolation and people being brought up with no moral foundation, whether from the family or the church, you get these types of crimes. Guns haven't changed. Society has.
    Yeah, you ever see a drive-by mass-knifing? Of course society has changed; but it seems only America is unwilling to adapt, unlike every other advanced Western nation whose stringent firearm regulations have resulted in a dramatic decrease in shootings. That is an indisputable fact, so what makes America uniquely impotent to address this?
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  2. #62
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    Re: More thoughts, more prayers and more dead, it will never end!

    Quote Originally Posted by snakestretcher View Post
    Yeah, you ever see a drive-by mass-knifing? Of course society has changed; but it seems only America is unwilling to adapt, unlike every other advanced Western nation whose stringent firearm regulations have resulted in a dramatic decrease in shootings. That is an indisputable fact, so what makes America uniquely impotent to address this?
    By "adapt" I suspect you mean disarming the law abiding. That is simply not going to happen here. People are not going to surrender their right to self defense. Banning any type of weapons is also fairly useless as we have hundreds of millions of guns in circulation already. People intent on crime, whether it be mass shootings or simply theft, are going to accomplish those acts most times. In most all cases, law enforcement arrives for clean up and investigation. They don't prevent much of anything. As such, people will not give up the instruments necessary to protect themselves and their families.

    There was a case here in Florida recently where 4 armed men invaded a home. The homeowner was armed and killed two of the invaders while the other two were arrested. Without the means to defend his home, that guy and his family might well be dead.

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    Re: More thoughts, more prayers and more dead, it will never end!

    Quote Originally Posted by snakestretcher View Post
    And why not? 2A is already an amendment so the Constitution is not written in stone and can be amended.
    You're making the assumption that the 2nd Amendment gives Americans the right to keep and bear arms.

    It doesn't. . . . . The 2nd Amendment only prohibits Lawmakers from infringing on that right.

    Even if the 2nd Amendment were repealed entirely, Americans still have a natural right to defend ourselves. . . .A natural right cannot be taken away or revoked.

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    Re: More thoughts, more prayers and more dead, it will never end!

    I’ll say this, if people thought it was truly important, it wouldn’t matter a jot how many guns were in circulation or how long it took, something would be done.

    It’s all to easy to say the US is a special case, and what worked elsewhere won’t work here... or hide behind the 2A saying my rights as an individual are more important that the 20 lives lost in El Paso, or the 9 in Ohio, or the hundreds affected having been injured, lost loved ones or even bore witness to these events....

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    Re: More thoughts, more prayers and more dead, it will never end!

    Quote Originally Posted by snakestretcher View Post
    Maybe because it's 2019 not 1787? How many private gun owners are in a militia?
    According to Title 10 of the US Code, all of them between the ages of 16 and 45.

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    Re: More thoughts, more prayers and more dead, it will never end!

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesmoke View Post
    Make Federal law:
    Universal background check for gun and ammo purchase
    National gun registry
    Lengthy gun safety and training classes that must be completed before gun purchase with license issuance
    Ballistics record of test-fired round
    3-day waiting period
    No sales to violent criminals, stalkers, abusers
    Cross check annually criminal and gun ownership records
    Fingerprinting owners
    Limit magazine capacity
    Workplace/school weapons ban
    Assault weapons ban of civilian ownership
    Expand mental health treatment under ACA
    Redouble law enforcement review of social media and online sites

    Most important are public attitude. Whatever legislation can be shown effective is more to do with public attitude of "I've had enough and I'm not going to take it anymore" than it is the passage and enforcement of the law itself. After all, it's public attitude that gets, or does not get, legislation passed and enforcement kept up.
    Democrats have already tried most of those infringements you suggested, only to have them tossed by the Supreme Court. Do you have any suggestions that do not involve violating the Supreme Law of the Land?

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    Re: More thoughts, more prayers and more dead, it will never end!

    Quote Originally Posted by independentusa View Post
    I am not talking about all guns, but military style weapons might help.
    How would that help? What does the "style" of the weapon have to do with anything?

    How could a person kill what, nine or ten and wound 16 more in a minute without such a weapon as happened in Dayton.
    Ask Anders Breivik or Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel. They each killed more than 70 people without such a weapon.

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    Re: More thoughts, more prayers and more dead, it will never end!

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesmoke View Post
    Make Federal law:
    Universal background check for gun and ammo purchase
    National gun registry
    Lengthy gun safety and training classes that must be completed before gun purchase with license issuance
    Ballistics record of test-fired round
    3-day waiting period
    No sales to violent criminals, stalkers, abusers
    Cross check annually criminal and gun ownership records
    Fingerprinting owners
    Limit magazine capacity
    Workplace/school weapons ban
    Assault weapons ban of civilian ownership
    Expand mental health treatment under ACA
    Redouble law enforcement review of social media and online sites

    Most important are public attitude. Whatever legislation can be shown effective is more to do with public attitude of "I've had enough and I'm not going to take it anymore" than it is the passage and enforcement of the law itself. After all, it's public attitude that gets, or does not get, legislation passed and enforcement kept up.
    You could do all that, and it won't save nearly as many lives as merely restoring the 55mph national speed limit, or making drunk driving a felony.

  9. #69
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    Re: More thoughts, more prayers and more dead, it will never end!

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Why does the 2a even mention militias if they are not contingent on the people keeping and bearing arms?
    Because of its history. The Anti-Federalists feared that the Federalists would ban privately owned firearms, preventing States from forming their militias. Or that the Federalists might use a partial ban to create a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. Therefore, the Anti-Federalists wanted to prohibit Congress from infringing on the ancient individual right of the people to keep and bear arms. That is why the Second Amendment exists, and why the prefatory clause "The well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..." exists.

  10. #70
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    Re: More thoughts, more prayers and more dead, it will never end!

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    Because of its history. The Anti-Federalists feared that the Federalists would ban privately owned firearms, preventing States from forming their militias. Or that the Federalists might use a partial ban to create a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. Therefore, the Anti-Federalists wanted to prohibit Congress from infringing on the ancient individual right of the people to keep and bear arms. That is why the Second Amendment exists, and why the prefatory clause "The well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..." exists.
    So the part that follows is dependent on the prefatory clause. The modern militia is the National Guard, so the need for personal arms is obsolete.

    “Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited…” It is “not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose”
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