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20 feet - defense

Then learn to fire when you are half asleep. Learn to fire in the dark when you can barely see your target. Learn your routes of egress and cover and concealment.

Hitting the target is the least of your concerns at 20 feet

Unless he sleeps with his gun in his hand, the "21 rule" means he's been stabbed already!
 
Ok, went back to the original post/topic then tried to figure out what the replies had to do with it....talk about going off topic in a hurry.
Speaking of which, depends where in the house I bhappen to be, in bed I have a choice of a12g SG or a Ruger LC9, her side, or a Glock 22, my side. Around the home I would go with one of several handguns or better yet one of my AR's, no neighbors to worry about.
 
The majority of personal self defense usage of handguns is at a range of less than 20 feet.

While going to combat shooting ranges has merit, if the goal was to match reality the real practice should be in a house more akin to door-to-door searches military training. This also is why a short barrel shotgun or the biggest caliber you can handle is ideal for home defense.

My personal carry firearm (as I've stated, very low firepower lately) is NOT what I have ready for home defense (double barrel 12 gauge coach gun and 45acp). I also carry a 45acp in my vehicle in the event I know my low firepower CCW is not enough (ie sensing danger). Do any of you also consider your CCW gun is NOT your home defense firearm?
I don't believe in having different firearms for different locations when the threat is identical. A human assaulting me in my home has the same biology as a human assaulting me at the store, and so my gun is the same, and it's just my personal defense gun.

I change the gun when the threat changes. My handgun is inadequate to deal with 4-legged critters and so that's why I have an AR.
 
Why not install VX sprinkler and use gas masks? When someone is in your house, put gas mask on and push button.
VX gas penetrates the skin just as quickly, you'll need to don full MOPP-5 gear before turning on the sprinklers.
 
I don't believe in having different firearms for different locations when the threat is identical. A human assaulting me in my home has the same biology as a human assaulting me at the store, and so my gun is the same, and it's just my personal defense gun.

I change the gun when the threat changes. My handgun is inadequate to deal with 4-legged critters and so that's why I have an AR.

That doesn't make sense if each environment has different constraints. As many wise men note, you carry a handgun only because carrying a rifle or shotgun is impractical or unrealistic.
 
That doesn't make sense if each environment has different constraints.
A human at 20ft or less. The threat is the same, so I don't need to change the gun. You can change your gun if you want, but it's not needed to accomplish the task.

As many wise men note, you carry a handgun only because carrying a rifle or shotgun is impractical or unrealistic.
I'll take my real military training and combat experience over your snarky bumper sticker slogans, thanks. CQB is a lot easier with a handgun than a long gun.
 
A human at 20ft or less. The threat is the same, so I don't need to change the gun. You can change your gun if you want, but it's not needed to accomplish the task.


I'll take my real military training and combat experience over your snarky bumper sticker slogans, thanks.

So you claim that a handgun is a better choice even if a shotgun or rifle is available? I will take the fact that I have actually used a firearm for self defense and I was a certified federal law enforcement instructor over your claims that have no real relevance to civilian self defense. As both Jeff Cooper and John Banner (TDI-Ohio, leading expert on active shooters) note, you never take a handgun to a gun fight when a rifle or shotgun is available. So at home, where concealment is not an issue, I have shotguns and rifles available. Sitting in a movie theater, I cannot pack an AR 15 or a Benelli shotgun, so its a Beretta or SIG pistol
 
A human at 20ft or less. The threat is the same, so I don't need to change the gun. You can change your gun if you want, but it's not needed to accomplish the task.


I'll take my real military training and combat experience over your snarky bumper sticker slogans, thanks. CQB is a lot easier with a handgun than a long gun.

/// I'll take my real military training and combat experience over your snarky bumper sticker slogans, thanks. //// :lol:
 
So you claim that a handgun is a better choice even if a shotgun or rifle is available?
A lot depends on the skill level and mindset of the victim. Most civilian gun owners are relatively untrained, meaning they don't take regular instruction and frequent live-fire practice. Your average victim is thinking about their grocery list and how much they don't like that one guy at work, they're not using a military bearing and being aware of their surroundings. If you can spot the assailant at the end of those 20ft and you have a rifle, deploy the rifle, but most people won't even notice the assault until the perp is right on top of them, and at that point bringing a long gun out will just get it taken away from you, or at least grappled to a position where it can't shoot the perp. A handgun, however, is much easier to retain against someone already on you, and easier to place effective shots to end the threat. It's a matter of degree, of the skill of the victim. Generally speaking, handguns are better than long guns for CQB, for the typical relatively untrained civilian victim.


I will take the fact that I have actually used a firearm for self-defense....
A handgun. You used a handgun, not a rifle.
 
A lot depends on the skill level and mindset of the victim. Most civilian gun owners are relatively untrained, meaning they don't take regular instruction and frequent live-fire practice. Your average victim is thinking about their grocery list and how much they don't like that one guy at work, they're not using a military bearing and being aware of their surroundings. If you can spot the assailant at the end of those 20ft and you have a rifle, deploy the rifle, but most people won't even notice the assault until the perp is right on top of them, and at that point bringing a long gun out will just get it taken away from you, or at least grappled to a position where it can't shoot the perp. A handgun, however, is much easier to retain against someone already on you, and easier to place effective shots to end the threat. It's a matter of degree, of the skill of the victim. Generally speaking, handguns are better than long guns for CQB, for the typical relatively untrained civilian victim.



A handgun. You used a handgun, not a rifle.

yeah because I didn't have a rifle or shotgun in the alley where I was mugged. Duh
 
The majority of personal self defense usage of handguns is at a range of less than 20 feet.

While going to combat shooting ranges has merit, if the goal was to match reality the real practice should be in a house more akin to door-to-door searches military training. This also is why a short barrel shotgun or the biggest caliber you can handle is ideal for home defense.

My personal carry firearm (as I've stated, very low firepower lately) is NOT what I have ready for home defense (double barrel 12 gauge coach gun and 45acp). I also carry a 45acp in my vehicle in the event I know my low firepower CCW is not enough (ie sensing danger). Do any of you also consider your CCW gun is NOT your home defense firearm?

I like to keep life simple. My all 'round carry and defense gun is a small .38 revolver. It's also one I've shot a lot. A lot. I used to shoot defensive pistol where you practice shooting from a car, around doors, etc.
 
The judge of what? Give me some context. A clue.

see my signature. He claims a shotgun is the same as a rifle-they only shoot different ammo
 
yeah because I didn't have a rifle or shotgun in the alley where I was mugged. Duh
If you thought long guns were truly superior then you would have had one.
 
see my signature. He claims a shotgun is the same as a rifle-they only shoot different ammo
Jet says a lot of dumb things (99% of which are scientifically designed to troll you, and you fall for it every single time) but having followed the links in your sig and read those discussions for myself it's clear that he's referring to long guns generally. That, in fact, was the very point he was trying to convey in the very post you quote in your sig. When he says "a shotgun is a rifle" he's calling them both long guns, in context. Your sig doesn't say what you think it says.

Your signature is one of Jet's trophies, proving that he can piss you off, that you're gullible enough to fall for it and get mad.
 
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see my signature. He claims a shotgun is the same as a rifle-they only shoot different ammo



Yeah. I already pointed out the difference in post #17. One could rationalize a shotgun with a rifled barrel is a rifle. From your picture, I can't tell if the shotgun shown has a rifled barrel. It does not appear to have sights like a rifled barrel shotgun would have more likely than a smooth bore. IMO, a shotgun with a rifled barrel is a rifled shotgun, being a shotgun, and not a discreet rifle. Even with a scope. Different uses and capabilities, blah, blah, blah.
 
If you thought long guns were truly superior then you would have had one.

that shows how silly your position is. Life is full of compromises.
 
Jet says a lot of dumb things (99% of which are scientifically designed to troll you, and you fall for it every single time) but having followed the links in your sig and read those discussions for myself it's clear that he's referring to long guns generally. That, in fact, was the very point he was trying to convey in the very post you quote in your sig. When he says "a shotgun is a rifle" he's calling them both long guns, in context. Your sig doesn't say what you think it says.

Your signature is one of Jet's trophies, proving that he can piss you off, that you're gullible enough to fall for it and get mad.

your take on this is rejected as contrary to reality.
 
^ that's a trash post. Try making an intelligent statement instead.


What I said is true.

Its moronic to say that since a rifle or shotgun is a better defensive weapon, one should carry a long arm at all times. That is what you claimed and we are laughing at how stupid that is. Try going to a football game or to an amusement park with a Benelli slung over your shoulder, or shopping with an AR 15.

Do you ever think things through?
 
Its moronic to say that since a rifle or shotgun is a better defensive weapon, one should carry a long arm at all times.
I don't think anyone said that, so, no worries :)

Do you ever think things through?
If you actually thought rifles were superior then you would have pulled one out of your car before walking blindly into a dark back ally :D

And the mere fact of open carrying a firearm would have prevented you from being assaulted in the first place. You chose to look like a victim, you got treated like a victim, and now you disgustingly flaunt your victim status as a credential. That's was Leftists do.
 
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The majority of personal self defense usage of handguns is at a range of less than 20 feet.

While going to combat shooting ranges has merit, if the goal was to match reality the real practice should be in a house more akin to door-to-door searches military training. This also is why a short barrel shotgun or the biggest caliber you can handle is ideal for home defense.

It doesnt sound like you are familiar with IDPA training. Distances only up to 30 feet, paper plate targets (among other torso/head cutouts), shooting while moving, and changing magazines and in different positions and from behind 'windows,' 'doors,' and other barriers. You use your carry, no modifications (except what you've legally made for your carry).

I dont compete but it's very good training and inexpensive.

And my house defense gun runs exactly the same as my carry. M&P fullsize and M&P Shield. I've also carried the fullsize.
 
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Why not install VX sprinkler and use gas masks? When someone is in your house, put gas mask on and push button.

My dogs dont have thumbs.
 
It doesnt sound like you are familiar with IDPA training. Distances only up to 30 feet, paper plate targets (among other torso/head cutouts), shooting while moving, and changing magazines and in different positions and from behind 'windows,' 'doors,' and other barriers. You use your carry, no modifications (except what you've legally made for your carry).

I don't compete but it's very good training and inexpensive.
Try targets that shoot back instead :)
 
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