• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Handgun 'stopping power' is a myth.

Your choice, my old .44 or my relatively new 9mm. Run towards me, see if the one you chose stops you when I shoot from the hip.

Likely neither, unless you get 'em in the head. It's important for a handgun to have a lot of rounds, specifically because someone whose lungs get shredded by a small calibre bullet can still sprint a block with enough adrenaline before they actually drop and start drowning in their own blood. There was a recent viral video of a cop emptying half a clip into a man charging him with a knife. He got the guy to fall over, but then he got up and kept coming. Probably drugs, but similar feats are possible without.

Now a shotgun or a rifle, on the other hand...
 
Likely neither, unless you get 'em in the head. It's important for a handgun to have a lot of rounds, specifically because someone whose lungs get shredded by a small calibre bullet can still sprint a block with enough adrenaline before they actually drop and start drowning in their own blood. There was a recent viral video of a cop emptying half a clip into a man charging him with a knife. He got the guy to fall over, but then he got up and kept coming. Probably drugs, but similar feats are possible without.

Now a shotgun or a rifle, on the other hand...

Have you ever shot a human being?
 
Likely neither, unless you get 'em in the head. It's important for a handgun to have a lot of rounds, specifically because someone whose lungs get shredded by a small calibre bullet can still sprint a block with enough adrenaline before they actually drop and start drowning in their own blood. There was a recent viral video of a cop emptying half a clip into a man charging him with a knife. He got the guy to fall over, but then he got up and kept coming. Probably drugs, but similar feats are possible without.

Now a shotgun or a rifle, on the other hand...

I remember someone on angle dust in the 1980s. 18 hits with .38 service rounds. A shotgun blast to the hip took him down. Then he got up again, dropped the gun he had, then pleaded the cops to stop shooting him.
 
No, but I've shot plenty of animals, and I've got at least a few credit hours' worth of anatomy under my belt. People just don't die quick, especially when they're going through a fight or flight response.

It's been my experience, when humans are shot, usually, the response is shock and collapse. Even when the wound is minor. Then if it isn't a kill, and no drugs are involved, the pain hits, debilitating pain. It is not like the movies, people who are hit rarely, if ever, get back up to continue firing themselves. Outside of combat, gunfights end in a matter of seconds. During combat, with exception of snipers, the shooters are laying down a wall of lead.
 
I do not agree with the video. People have been shot with a .22 and not known it. I seriously doubt anyone has been hit with a 45 acp or .44 magnum hollow point and didn't know they had been shot. It isn't just about how fast a shot kills, but it's deterrence, and how disabling and distracting it is. If hit in the right lung thru a rib by a 45acp the person is less likely shooting as accurately than if hit with a .32 short. If hit in the arm by a .44 magnum that person probably won't be as good in an attacking knife attack than by a .380. Even how loud the blast sound coming at the attacker is can be a factor.

He disregards clothing penetration capability, the ability to break or break thru bones, whether the person's spine is damaged or not - and how much, whether the round can penetrate a skull, the size of the hole ripped in a person's aorta or throat, whether a bone joint is shattered to unusable, how quickly a heart stops functioning to unconsciousness, how fast the person bleeds out etc.

He also asserts that all defensive usage of a firearm outcome is based upon how fast the person can draw and shoot accurately. He is completely wrong. Police who are shot and killed in active shooter surprise situations has been extensively studied - with these increasingly on video. What they found is IF the officer under fire first responds by running away from the shooter towards shelter such as his cruiser, he is overwhelmingly more likely to live than if his first response is to go for his gun to return fire - being a closer and stationary target.

In my opinion, the closer the attacker or shooter, the larger the caliber. As the distance increases, more bullets fired faster accurately matters. So against an attacker with a knife at 10 feet ideally I'd have a bulldog 44 magnum or 45acp with hollow point shredders. However, at 50 feet a double stack 9mm makes more sense.

When the officer that draws their weapon instead of seeking cover I bet dollars to donuts they are most often stationary. Movement adds a complication factor, the more complications one can add the better their odds of survival.

I personally prefer a .50 cal lead blunted conical boat tail at 375 grains and 1300fps on the 1858 Remington pattern frame scaled up a tich to accommodate the round size comfortably with modern metallurgy and a 9 inch barrel. Calling it a pistol is probably a stretch. A saddle gun more like. A little over 1900 joules of stopping power. Its not pink mist power levels but it definitely you know you got hit hard levels even if you have body armor on even level four. Its a classic pistol that if your gona die you may as well do so with style. Cause if I am shooting at somebody with my pistol, you KNOW my plans have went to ****, and I am probably dead and dont know it yet.
 
I did and you failed to answer. Again.

When it comes to .22 vs 44mag, I don't have skin in the game. I have 5.56mm, .327 federal, and soon to be 9mm. Those are my choices. You may as well have asked about my preference of 50cal or 40mm because I don't have those either.
 
When it comes to .22 vs 44mag, I don't have skin in the game. I have 5.56mm, .327 federal, and soon to be 9mm. Those are my choices. You may as well have asked about my preference of 50cal or 40mm because I don't have those either.

So.. you are saying that you lack the knowledge of firearms to know the difference between a .22 long rifle.. and a 44 magnum?
 
When it comes to .22 vs 44mag, I don't have skin in the game. I have 5.56mm, .327 federal, and soon to be 9mm. Those are my choices. You may as well have asked about my preference of 50cal or 40mm because I don't have those either.

And in a desperate attempt to show how clever I am: your choices also include .32 S&W, .32 S&W long, .32 magnum H&R, and, in a pinch, .32 ACP.
(I intended to get an SP101 in .327 fed, but at a gun show was discouraged by lack of available ammo and found a slightly used GP100 in .357 magnum for less.)
 
And in a desperate attempt to show how clever I am: your choices also include .32 S&W, .32 S&W long, .32 magnum H&R, and, in a pinch, .32 ACP.
(I intended to get an SP101 in .327 fed, but at a gun show was discouraged by lack of available ammo and found a slightly used GP100 in .357 magnum for less.)
I think whoever told you that .327 is harder to get ahold of may have been thinking about what's available in stores. Stores are going to stock most of what they sell most and .327 isn't common. It's widely available, though, with no shortages at all.
 
I think whoever told you that .327 is harder to get ahold of may have been thinking about what's available in stores. Stores are going to stock most of what they sell most and .327 isn't common. It's widely available, though, with no shortages at all.
No one told me: no one was selling it at any of the booths. Yes I know it’s easily available online, but that requires planning ahead and ordering. Not my strong suits. Not available in store makes it harder to get for me.

If I decide I want something smaller, I’ll reconsider: I think anyone shooting .357 out of an LCR is insane.
 
No one told me: no one was selling it at any of the booths. Yes I know it’s easily available online, but that requires planning ahead and ordering. Not my strong suits. Not available in store makes it harder to get for me.

If I decide I want something smaller, I’ll reconsider: I think anyone shooting .357 out of an LCR is insane.

In what way does ordering online require planning ahead? You just...order it, and a couple of days later it's sitting at your front door.
 
Back
Top Bottom