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NYC a safe city?

These gun death rates can be affected by many things; local economic conditions, gang presence, median age, level of law enforcement, and the availability of black market firearms. The stats can also vary a lot from year to year. And different locations report the actual stats differently. And different locations do a worse or better job of producing thorough reports. As Mark Twain said, "There are lies, daamn lies, and statistics."
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Safety, defined as being the absense of risk, is non-existent in NYC or any other public place. There are places with higher or lower crime rates than NYC but that can only be used to determine a relative risk (of crime).
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The rate of violent crime per capita is somewhat consistent. Your best bet is to live rurally. There are far fewer people, so there's simply less crime. Of course, if you're armed to the teeth and have dogs, that helps, too. I have a comprehensive approach to such things.
 
HumblePi said:
W. Virginia has a population of 1.79 million total population, that's 77.1 people per square mile. The Huntington–Ashland metropolitan area is the largest metropolitan statistical area in West Virginia and includes seven counties across three states: West Virginia, Kentucky, and Ohio. New definitions from February 28, 2013 placed the population at 361,580.

Charleston, West Virginia is the state capital and has a population of 47,929. New York City on the other hand, has a population of 8.62 million people.

You really can't make any logical claims comparing gun deaths between W. Virginia and New York City because you need to add context to the claim with real statistics. As a matter of fact, using statistics, gun deaths are actually much lower in NY than in W. Va.
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So population density has more of an impact on violent crime than gun ownership does?

Well, I guess it's true. Blind squirrels DO get nuts every once in a while.
 
Lutherf said:
So population density has more of an impact on violent crime than gun ownership does?

Well, I guess it's true. Blind squirrels DO get nuts every once in a while.
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Absolutely it does, there's no doubt about it.
 
I've spent big chunks of time in NYC and it's as safe as anywhere else. There are good parts of town and bad. If you're dumb enough to put yourself at risk by being at the wrong place at the wrong time, your chances of suffering violence increase. That's the same everywhere though.
 
humbolt said:
The rate of violent crime per capita is somewhat consistent. Your best bet is to live rurally. There are far fewer people, so there's simply less crime. Of course, if you're armed to the teeth and have dogs, that helps, too. I have a comprehensive approach to such things.
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That sounds great, except for the "living rurally" part.
 
Lutherf said:
So population density has more of an impact on violent crime than gun ownership does?

Well, I guess it's true. Blind squirrels DO get nuts every once in a while.
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that subway deaths of all kinds in NYC far outstrip those in Charleston, WVa, though.
 
Tlrmln said:
That sounds great, except for the "living rurally" part.
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Thankfully, it's not for everybody. I have clean air and water, and I can see the milky way at night. It's quiet, and nobody piles their garbage on the street. We're a bit more civilized than that.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Some people like to claim how NYC is such a safe city and its safe because of gun control. Well, the annual rate in NYC is 3.4 for every 100K people. In Summersville in West Virginia the murder rate is 0.0 for every 100K people. West Virginia is one of the most gun friendly states in the USA.

Boston on the other hand, which has even stricter gun control than NYC, has a murder rate of 8.3 per 100K people, so that says something about more gun control not making it more safe.
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I grew up in the DC suburbs of MD but my entire family outside of my parents were all in New York.
I spent about half my early life, childhood to maybe age twenty-five, in and around New York City and Long Island.
Never a problem, none.

Some excitement here or there but I have no issue walking around ANY part of NYC and never have, even when carrying camera equipment worth more than some people's brand new cars.

JeffHNYCTallCotton32.jpg

Oh darn, oh snap, I forget who but someone in this thread gets extremely irritated whenever I post pictures of myself somewhere.
Oh well, tough beans.
 
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Tlrmln said:
Two problems with this.

1) Summersville has less than 4000 people. If it has the same murder rate as NYC, it would have one murder every 8 years, meaning in 7 out of 8 years it would have a 0 murder rate. If you really want to make a valid argument, compare Austin, TX (2.6) to Baltimore, MD (55.9). NYC's murder rate has plummeted because of gentrification.

2) Boston does not have stricter gun laws than NYC. It's murder rate is a hair lower than Tucson, AZ, which also doesn't have strict gun laws.
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By the way, I'd be perfectly okay with California relaxing some of its dumber gun laws.
A law abiding citizen who has passed some training courses and background checks SHOULD BE perfectly able to obtain a concealed carry permit in this state. I don't think it is too onerous to require that permit be renewed every year or couple of years, or even every three years.
But a person who is a known "good egg" should not be denied a CC permit in Cali.

And yes, I am a lefty who owns guns.

New York? I dunno, they have to learn the same lessons everyone is learning, that gun laws won't fix violent crime...or even the availability of guns, not in this country.
 
Rickeroo said:
There's something about the way NYC handles law enforcement, or something about the culture there that makes it relatively safe for a large city. What that is I'm not exactly certain.
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I can tell you what it USED to be but I doubt it applies anymore.
USED to be most NYC cops lived close enough to the city they worked in, and they too WERE "New Yawkuhz" and so when a cop interacted with people on their beat, people got the impression that they were interacting with someone on their own level, and of their own culture.

Even Nassau County PD were sort of the same, you knew what to expect from them.
I guess it can be called "community policing".

I noticed right away that NYPD cops did things in a uniquely "New York City" style back when I was a young man, and if you conducted yourself the right way, the heat simmered down quickly and they just did their job.
I noticed the same thing in Minneapolis too, despite the fact that Mpls PD was an extremely corrupt agency.

LAPD, most of them don't actually live IN Los Angeles. Most of them live out in Simi Valley, or some other far flung exurb, or they live in the outer parts of the San Fernando Valley, Ventura County or Santa Clarita.

Can't say as I blame them though, rent and mortgage is pretty high unless you managed to buy in prior to the turn of the century. Anything after maybe 2002 and it's extremely tough to find an affordable home on a cop salary.
 
beefheart said:
Your anecdotal response is hardly proof. NYC/Manhattan is a pretty safe place. I've been in much scarier places.
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Well I do have to give NYC credit for being safer than some other cities, such as Boston and London.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Safety, defined as being the absense of risk, is non-existent in NYC or any other public place. There are places with higher or lower crime rates than NYC but that can only be used to determine a relative risk (of crime).
Click to expand...

True, in life there are risks no matter where you go, period. But in terms of guns affecting crime rate, there is no indication that more guns leads to more crime.
 
Rickeroo said:
There's something about the way NYC handles law enforcement, or something about the culture there that makes it relatively safe for a large city. What that is I'm not exactly certain.
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Yes NYC does spend lots of money, I believe, in law enforcement. The NYPD is one of the best in the world, and they carry and use guns. So there you have it, guns reduce crime.

And yes NYC is a relatively safe city when you compare it to other cities such as Boston and London.
 
DebateChallenge said:
True, in life there are risks no matter where you go, period. But in terms of guns affecting crime rate, there is no indication that more guns leads to more crime.
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More guns in the hands of idiots and criminals leads to more crime but banning guns doesn't fix the problem.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Right, with an annual 292 murders, 2375 reported rapes, and 29,771 assaults I wouldn't exactly call it safe.
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8 million people. It's the safest large city in the country.

Per capita
 
Tlrmln said:
1) Summersville has less than 4000 people. If it has the same murder rate as NYC, it would have one murder every 8 years, meaning in 7 out of 8 years it would have a 0 murder rate. If you really want to make a valid argument, compare Austin, TX (2.6) to Baltimore, MD (55.9). NYC's murder rate has plummeted because of gentrification.
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Alright, by that argument Austin has a much lower murder rate than Baltimore and Baltimore has much stricter gun laws. Baltimore might have even stricter gun laws than NYC.
If NYC's murder rate has plummeted its no doubt because of the NYPD, the money that goes into it and the performance of the NYPD.

Tlrmln said:
2) Boston does not have stricter gun laws than NYC. It's murder rate is a hair lower than Tucson, AZ, which also doesn't have strict gun laws.
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When you really look into it its safe to say that gun laws don't really affect murder rate one way or the other.
 
Waddy said:
These gun death rates can be affected by many things; local economic conditions, gang presence, median age, level of law enforcement, and the availability of black market firearms.
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Well yes the availability of guns on the illegal market certainly cannot be overlooked. About 4 out of 5 guns in Germany are owned illegally. In Japan there is also a big illegal gun market.
 
humbolt said:
Thankfully, it's not for everybody. I have clean air and water, and I can see the milky way at night. It's quiet, and nobody piles their garbage on the street. We're a bit more civilized than that.
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You're from Virginia according to your profile. You might want to move to your northwest neighboring state that broke off from your state during the Civil War when they sided with the union. They're more gun friendly there and they are a good role model for gun control nationwide.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Well yes the availability of guns on the illegal market certainly cannot be overlooked. About 4 out of 5 guns in Germany are owned illegally. In Japan there is also a big illegal gun market.
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Is this from a guy you know or do you have actual evidence?
 
DebateChallenge said:
Some people like to claim how NYC is such a safe city and its safe because of gun control. Well, the annual rate in NYC is 3.4 for every 100K people. In Summersville in West Virginia the murder rate is 0.0 for every 100K people. West Virginia is one of the most gun friendly states in the USA.

Boston on the other hand, which has even stricter gun control than NYC, has a murder rate of 8.3 per 100K people, so that says something about more gun control not making it more safe.
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You have to compare with cities of similar size. Summersville has less that 4000 people. If they got 1 murder , it would put their rate to 25 per 100K for that year.
 
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