• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

[W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

Chillfolks said:
I agree it's a peraonal choice. Just don't give me a sob story if you choose not to use one with an under 16 child in the home that accidentally shoots himself, sibling, friend, or parent and then face an increased sentence for neglagence as a result of not using one. That was your choice live with it.

By you I mean anyone not peraonal you btw.
Click to expand...

Agreed. What annoys me is what's implied: that other people's lives are of more value than mine.

I see no justification there.
 
Lursa said:
Agreed. What annoys me is what's implied: that other people's lives are of more value than mine.

I see no justification there.
Click to expand...

My under 16 needs them isn't about one life more valuable than a other. More that a 4 year old and 40 year old aren't going to view the seriousness of a loaded gun the same. Well shouldn't but I've meet some really stupid 40 year olds in my life
 
Chillfolks said:
My under 16 needs them isn't about one life more valuable than a other. More that a 4 year old and 40 year old aren't going to view the seriousness of a loaded gun the same. Well shouldn't but I've meet some really stupid 40 year olds in my life
Click to expand...

It's about risk analysis and priority.

IMO, the family with kids needs to make concessions, compromises, that shouldnt be forced on me.
 
"Each year, more children die from firearm-related injuries than from cancer and heart disease combined," said Dr. Chao, Trauma Medical Director and Assistant Professor of Pediatric Surgery at Stanford School of Medicine. "However, each and every one of these deaths is preventable. Our study demonstrates that state-level legislation prevents children from dying from guns."
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm...



What, exactly is the "gun control" issue that you had in mind?

It seems that criminal charges are pending without the need of any more "gun laws".
Click to expand...


A lot of the people who will be saying "so what?" will be "pro-life" people.

Is it enough that people are charged with things, and then it'll happen again and again and again.

Meanwhile an immigrant kills someone and the right are up in arms and "this can never be allowed to happen again".
 
Frigidweirdo said:
A lot of the people who will be saying "so what?" will be "pro-life" people.

1) Is it enough that people are charged with things, and then it'll happen again and again and again.

2) Meanwhile an immigrant kills someone and the right are up in arms and "this can never be allowed to happen again".
Click to expand...

1) Folks violate traffic safety laws on a regular basis causing far more death and injury than those who violate gun laws. Should violating traffic safety laws not result in a lifetime ban on driving (a mere privilege)?

2) How many sanctuary cities or states exist for those who violate our (federal) gun laws?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
1) Folks violate traffic safety laws on a regular basis causing far more death and injury than those who violate gun laws. Should violating traffic safety laws not result in a lifetime ban on driving (a mere privilege)?

2) How many sanctuary cities or states exist for those who violate our (federal) gun laws?
Click to expand...

1) Yes they do.

However just because something should be done about traffic laws, doesn't mean something shouldn't be done about gun laws.

The UK has a road death rate that is LOWER than the US's gun murder rate.

List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia
List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

In fact the UK's deaths on the road is 3.1 per 100,000 people, it's murder rate is 1.2, so a rate of 4.3
The US's gun murder rate alone is 4.46
It's road deaths rate is 12.4

This is about attitude. The UK has dealt with murder to a certain extent and deal with road deaths to a certain extent.

On the other hand someone says "oh, too many people die from guns" the response is "don't do anything, more people die on the roads." When people say "oh, too many people die on the roads" people say "don't do anything, more people die from cancer".

Attitude. The US has a massive can't do attitude.
 
Frigidweirdo said:
1) Yes they do.

However just because something should be done about traffic laws, doesn't mean something shouldn't be done about gun laws.

The UK has a road death rate that is LOWER than the US's gun murder rate.

List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia
List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

In fact the UK's deaths on the road is 3.1 per 100,000 people, it's murder rate is 1.2, so a rate of 4.3
The US's gun murder rate alone is 4.46
It's road deaths rate is 12.4

This is about attitude. The UK has dealt with murder to a certain extent and deal with road deaths to a certain extent.

On the other hand someone says "oh, too many people die from guns" the response is "don't do anything, more people die on the roads." When people say "oh, too many people die on the roads" people say "don't do anything, more people die from cancer".

Attitude. The US has a massive can't do attitude.
Click to expand...

I am really interested in hearing what you think should be done.
 
Frigidweirdo said:
1) Yes they do.

However just because something should be done about traffic laws, doesn't mean something shouldn't be done about gun laws.

The UK has a road death rate that is LOWER than the US's gun murder rate.

List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia
List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

In fact the UK's deaths on the road is 3.1 per 100,000 people, it's murder rate is 1.2, so a rate of 4.3
The US's gun murder rate alone is 4.46
It's road deaths rate is 12.4

This is about attitude. The UK has dealt with murder to a certain extent and deal with road deaths to a certain extent.

On the other hand someone says "oh, too many people die from guns" the response is "don't do anything, more people die on the roads." When people say "oh, too many people die on the roads" people say "don't do anything, more people die from cancer".

Attitude. The US has a massive can't do attitude.
Click to expand...

The fact that I can (and do) legally own a gun had no bearing on the tragic death of the toddler in the OP. The idea that taking away my right to own a gun (or converting it to a state issued privilege) would have saved that toddler is just nuts.
 
Frigidweirdo said:
About what? I spoke about two different things.
Click to expand...

When one complains about something not being done, I naturally see what the person thinks should be done
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Increase the power of the nanny state, no doubt.
Click to expand...

Hard to say given some of his other comments. I won't presume anything at this point.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The fact that I can (and do) legally own a gun had no bearing on the tragic death of the toddler in the OP. The idea that taking away my right to own a gun (or converting it to a state issued privilege) would have saved that toddler is just nuts.
Click to expand...

Seems like you keep flipping argument every time I say something.

So, you're saying if you were born in the UK and the idea of a right to own a gun is considered ridiculous there, that this child would have died anyway? The child would literally have found a way to kill itself, would have literally gone and found a farmer with a shotgun and stuck it in its mouth and pulled the trigger?

Though you're not totally wrong. The can't do attitude is massively prevalent in the US. I remember a TV show from a while back, Jamie Oliver went to Huntington, West Virginia which was apparently the fattest place in the US.

Basically the guy was told "you can't implement healthier eating until you've prove it works" and "you can't prove it works until you've implemented it" kind of attitude.

Jamie’s Food Revolution: Huntington Schools 2 Years Later Gilt Taste | Kitchn


Apparently what he did do finally go through to some people.

There's a reason US politics is massively messed up. There's a reason why far more people die in the US every year. And the people who are generally behind making sure this happens are often "pro-life". I mean, it doesn't make sense at all.
 
TurtleDude said:
When one complains about something not being done, I naturally see what the person thinks should be done
Click to expand...

I'm confused. I literally asked which of the two things you want me to talk about, and you literally didn't tell me. How do I make this more simple?

WHICH ONE DO YOU WANT ME TO TALK ABOUT?
 
TurtleDude said:
Would those who demand trigger locks on guns in homes without children be willing to stand civilly liable if a homeowner dies during a criminal assault because they could not defend themselves.?
Click to expand...
It's called safe STORAGE. If you have a gun out for immediate use, that's not STORAGE, that's CARRY, you put that gun in a holster and keep it on or about your person. Safe storage laws and trigger locks are for the guns you aren't using at the moment.

Feel free to accept civil liability for all these kids killed by you blocking safe storage laws, though.
 
Lursa said:
THen I just read the post above this.

It's not working. So why are more laws of the same going to work?
Click to expand...
It's not the same laws.

Lursa said:
And why should I be punished...
Click to expand...

For, like, the 20th time in this thread...you should be punished as an example to others so that they secure their guns. Even if people don't comply with the law, they will be mindful of the legal consequences if caught and be more aware, resulting in fewer toddlers shooting themselves.

Lursa said:
...and I believe it's important to me to have my 9mm on my nightstand shelf in my bedroom/safe room where I can get to it before a rapist, intruder, home invader, gets to me?
Click to expand...
A gun on your nightstand, while you're in the room, is not storage and thus not what safe storage is about. A gun on your nightstand, while you're in the room, is 'off-person carry' like a paraplegic person keeping their gun on their wheelchair even though the wheelchair is in the truck bed and they're driving, or keeping a gun in a backpack you set down during class, or putting your gun in the center console while driving. That's not storage and therefore not what safe storage laws are about.
 
Wayne Jr said:
It's not the same laws.



For, like, the 20th time in this thread...you should be punished as an example to others so that they secure their guns. Even if people don't comply with the law, they will be mindful of the legal consequences if caught and be more aware, resulting in fewer toddlers shooting themselves.


A gun on your nightstand, while you're in the room, is not storage and thus not what safe storage is about. A gun on your nightstand, while you're in the room, is 'off-person carry' like a paraplegic person keeping their gun on their wheelchair even though the wheelchair is in the truck bed and they're driving, or keeping a gun in a backpack you set down during class, or putting your gun in the center console while driving. That's not storage and therefore not what safe storage laws are about.
Click to expand...

Screw that even more. Like I asked Chilli...is my life less valuable than others? Than "toddlers"? And now you would risk it more to be 'an example?'

Why should I make concessions, compromises that others 'may' need that put me in more jeopardy?
 
Lursa said:
AFAIK, most or all handguns in the US are sold with a lock. Why isnt that sufficient?
Click to expand...
There's no requirement to actually use that lock, is how this is different.
 
Wayne Jr said:
Feel free to accept civil liability for all these kids killed by you blocking safe storage laws, though.
Click to expand...

No. I'll accept "civil" liability IF a child or other person in "I invited into my home harms themself or another IN my home" (because if they take it out, they stole it).
 
Lursa said:
Screw that even more. Like I asked Chilli...is my life less valuable than others? Than "toddlers"? And now you would risk it more to be 'an example?'

Why should I make concessions, compromises that others 'may' need that put me in more jeopardy?
Click to expand...
So if you own 5 different firearms, you're saying you keep all 5 firearms on your person and ready to go 24/7?
 
Wayne Jr said:
There's no requirement to actually use that lock, is how this is different.
Click to expand...

And nothing to make them use it...no matter what the law.

It's about education and priority. Risk assessment and responsibilty.

"Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

Control your own kids.
 
Wayne Jr said:
So if you own 5 different firearms, you're saying you keep all 5 firearms on your person and ready to go 24/7?
Click to expand...

No, my competition ones live in my gun bag, ready to go (not loaded). The others...in place, as appropriate, loaded. Nightstand, carry, etc.

I dont have alot of guns, I only have ones that specifically fit a purpose but I could use a couple more.
 
Lursa said:
No. I'll accept "civil" liability IF a child or other person in "I invited into my home harms themself or another IN my home" (because if they take it out, they stole it).
Click to expand...
TrueFacts: Todlers cannot be charged with a crime because toddlers are literally incapable of forming criminal intent. If a toddler gets ahold of your gun, it's always YOUR fault.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom