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Thread: [W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

  1. #181
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    re: [W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Jr View Post
    I don't expect you to put a lock on a gun you're carrying for self-defense. This is about the guns you aren't using.
    I've been clear on this. No, I dont. My house is locked. If you break in, I am not responsible for criminal acts like robbery. That's ludicrous. They are secured if people are over.


    Because that's a moral question, morals cannot be the basis for law, and this is about the law.

    Value is subjective, meaning lives can be valued verb, but lives don't have value noun . No one's life has more or less value than anyone else's life because nothing, not a single thing in the whole world, has value intrinsically.
    Then why do you want to save lives?

    You are just trying to avoid the question. I call complete BS on your claim here but I'll ask this...why is it ok to put me at risk rather than other people?

    But here, I can play your game, see red above: I used it as a verb too btw, which you said is valid...so here it is again: Why should other people's lives be valued more than mine? Answer please.

    Why should I have to make the same concessions, compromises that parents do/should, which put me more at risk?


    A safe storage law isn't forcing you to do a damn thing. The only way a safe storage law could force you to safely store your guns is if we had random unannounced inspections, and no one's even proposing that.
    That's a lie. There is a legal penalty if I dont. Dont even bother with that garbage. Not only that, it puts my life at risk. It's like a law demanding I keep my doors and windows unlocked when I'm at home to enable myself or a family to escape faster, in a fire, all the while leaving myself or a family vulnerable to robbery, rape, invasion.

    It's a trade off being safe...and in the case of unlocked up guns, one CLEARLY puts ME more at risk. And we still havent seen why you value (verb) other people's lives are more important than mine.

    Safe storage laws advance awareness. That's it. Through this awareness, more people take steps to secure their guns than otherwise would have.
    That is an outright, black and white lie. There are penalties if you dont do it.

    Spend more $$ on education.
    Last edited by Lursa; 05-25-19 at 01:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wan View Post
    You can think that I am stupid all you want. It won't stop me from being racist.
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    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #182
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    re: [W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Jr View Post
    If someone is able to take a gun you failed to lock up, that should lead to criminal charges against you both; them for taking it, and you for leaving it out. Firearms should be secured at all times, either on your person or locked up. No exceptions. No excuses.
    I should never be liable for a consenting adult stealing my property. Ever. A firearm in my car or home IS locked up. I am not a criminal and am not responsible for other's criminal behavior.

    No exceptions, no excuses.
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wan View Post
    You can think that I am stupid all you want. It won't stop me from being racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #183
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    re: [W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are you kidding me? How, exactly, is someone who does not obey the law "law abiding"?
    There are many gun laws that make 'law abiding citizens' criminals. But yes I do recognize your point.

    In MD (NJ?), you are a criminal if you dont keep your gun locked up in your vehicle and the ammo separate in the trunk. That makes you a 'criminal' all the while

    I believe there's some state, you can only cc with your gun unloaded and carrying ammo separately


    There are many such laws in the US and they are complete garbage. But if there is a criminal charge (some laws like storage laws incur civil penalties in most cases, at least initially)...then yes, you're breaking the law, no longer 'law abiding.' I'd love to come up with another phrase that would work better.

    IMO it's arbitrary garbage tho...just like pot laws. You are still a 'criminal' in some states if you have it, and not in others.
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wan View Post
    You can think that I am stupid all you want. It won't stop me from being racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #184
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    re: [W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

    Quote Originally Posted by bongsaway View Post
    I would rather err on the side of safety. Yes, such a law would prevent some unwanted deaths of people. I don't think it's stupid, I'm just repeating what some gun owners think of such a law.
    Who's safety?

    Again, are the lives of 'other' people to be more valued than gun owner's lives and their families?
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wan View Post
    You can think that I am stupid all you want. It won't stop me from being racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #185
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    re: [W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Folks that would leave a loaded gun easily accessible to a toddler are highly unlikely to obey such a law. After all, cars are equipped with locks yet are often left unlocked or with the keys left easily available for unauthorized access. People even leave toddlers to be cooked inside them - you just can't prevent stupid or negligent behavior.
    And laws dont fix stupid and negligent. Education 'may.'

    My story about the off-duty cop that left the loaded gun in his van with his kids was ignored.

    As was the hypocrisy that he wasnt even charged initially, while 2 hrs away, a Hispanic couple that did the same thing were charged immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wan View Post
    You can think that I am stupid all you want. It won't stop me from being racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #186
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    re: [W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    There are many gun laws that make 'law abiding citizens' criminals. But yes I do recognize your point.

    In MD (NJ?), you are a criminal if you dont keep your gun locked up in your vehicle and the ammo separate in the trunk. That makes you a 'criminal' all the while

    I believe there's some state, you can only cc with your gun unloaded and carrying ammo separately


    There are many such laws in the US and they are complete garbage. But if there is a criminal charge (some laws like storage laws incur civil penalties in most cases, at least initially)...then yes, you're breaking the law, no longer 'law abiding.' I'd love to come up with another phrase that would work better.

    IMO it's arbitrary garbage tho...just like pot laws. You are still a 'criminal' in some states if you have it, and not in others.
    I tried, unseccessfully, while living in MD to find out how to legally carry a gun while riding a motorcycle. Texas has a law stating that one can legally carry a loaded handgun (w/o a LTC) while enroute to their home, RV, boat or vehicle yet the sheriff could not explain how one legally left that home, RV, boat or vehicle while carrying that loaded handgun.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #187
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    re: [W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You think people -such as my wife and I, who have no minor children in our homes, should have to keep trigger locks on guns?
    Yes, because rather or not you have children of your own is irrelevant.
    Vaccines, because it's not always about you.

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    re: [W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you have locked doors in your home, with an alarm system, and someone breaks in and steals a gun from you =no you should not be liable. That gun is LOCKED up
    Merely being inside a locked home or locked car is does not count since your home or car is not rated against forced entry.
    Vaccines, because it's not always about you.

  9. #189
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    re: [W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I've been clear on this. No, I dont. My house is locked. If you break in, I am not responsible for criminal acts like robbery. That's ludicrous. They are secured if people are over.
    Your house is not rated against forced entry so no, your guns are not locked up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Then why do you want to save lives?
    Because I value them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    why is it ok to put me at risk rather than other people?
    You're not at risk because no one expects you to lock up the gun you're using for self-defense. It's the guns you aren't using that should be locked up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Why should other people's lives be valued more than mine? Answer please.
    As I don't know any of you I don't value any of you more than any of the rest of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Why should I have to make the same concessions, compromises that parents do/should, which put me more at risk?
    Because if you don't then we'll Red Flag you and have all your guns confiscated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That's a lie. There is a legal penalty if I dont.
    No, there's a legal penalty if you get caught. Don't get caught. Safe Storage law works even when it's disobeyed because you will still take steps when potential access by others is available.
    Last edited by Wayne Jr; 05-25-19 at 05:17 PM.
    Vaccines, because it's not always about you.

  10. #190
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    re: [W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Frigidweirdo View Post
    So, how damn hard was it to say that the first time?

    What can be done about the problems with gun crime.

    1) Change the way people vote. Right now the FPTP system is destroying the US, politicians are often in it only for the money, and they're taking the money and representing money. People don't have a real choice, people don't have a chance to say what they think. If you don't support the Republicans or Democrats you're doomed to fail, no matter the outcome of the election.

    In Germany, with PR, the third party didn't exist 10 years ago. While the US has flirted with Libertarians, Socialists, Tea Party and the like, Germans actually get to vote for what they want, instead of it being like a mole in their face. The AfD got 12.6% of the vote, because people felt they could vote for them, unlike in the US. And the AfD will have an impact on the policies that come out of the government, even if they're not in it.

    2) Change the "can't do" mentality in the US. Change the lack of desire to solve problems.

    3) If you want to be more specific about guns, then there are plenty of things that could be done. A lot of them would have people screaming and shouting about their right to own weapons.

    4) Change education, make education something that can change communities, change people's lives.


    Without number one, nothing else is going to happen. No change will happen. Number one isn't going to happen because the rich control the government and really don't want to lose their ability to do so. Do they care if a one year old kills himself? No, they've got a massive yacht, loads of houses, enough money that they only need to worry about getting some disease that can't be cured.
    I don't see an answer. I really don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
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    I'm smart on the gun issue and what we need to do about it.

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