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[W:616]Tennessee toddler found gun, shot himself

Wayne Jr said:
I'm saying children could be in your home at some point, with or without your knowledge.
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May be the parents should stop them from breaking and entering.
 
TurtleDude said:
Define forced entry. You are guessing without having a clue.
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1 : the unlawful taking of possession of real property by force or threats of force against the lawful possessor — see also forcible entry and detainer. 2 : unlawful entry into or onto another's property especially when accompanied by force forcible entry of an automobile.

See, if you were ever a lawyer, you would already know this.
 
Wayne Jr said:
I'm saying children could be in your home at some point, with or without your knowledge.
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only if they break down the door, and manage to disable the alarm system and get past two dogs.

Once again, you are making up scenarios to fit your silly arguments, rather than dealing with reality .
 
Barnacle said:
Question: did the parents legally own that gun?


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Accidents happen but sometimes accidents can be avoided if the adults are being responsible. If the parents broke the law in any way one or both of them may end up in jail. Here locally just a few years back a man accidentally backed his truck over his toddler grandson. The grandson had run behind the moving truck before anyone saw him or could stop what was happening. There are no winners in that sort of accident but that is not the type of accident which should be prosecuted as a crime.
 
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Wayne Jr said:
1 : the unlawful taking of possession of real property by force or threats of force against the lawful possessor — see also forcible entry and detainer. 2 : unlawful entry into or onto another's property especially when accompanied by force forcible entry of an automobile.

See, if you were ever a lawyer, you would already know this.
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I was asking the question to see if you knew the answer. My home is protected against forcible entry. I don't have many guns laying around-in my upstairs office, there is a Sig Rifle that is a primary home defense weapon. I suppose someone can break down the doors of my home with a crowbar-get pass two dogs, run up the stairs, find the rifle and run out before the 3.5 minute response time of the police is up. In my alarmed barn which serves as a storage area, an archery range, and has several safes containing guns and ammo, I leave a 22 rifle by the back door to deal with woodchucks and coyotes. again, I suppose someone could break down that door, and find that rifle and run off before the cops get there or someone in my house deals with them. Its not a realistic scenario
 
TurtleDude said:
only if they break down the door, and manage to disable the alarm system and get past two dogs.

Once again, you are making up scenarios to fit your silly arguments, rather than dealing with reality.
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You think accounting for all the many states people maintain their homes in is making up a scenario? That's pretty dumb, buddy. Really dumb.

Not everyone lives alone and another resident might have people over, some of whom are children. Not everyone has their door locked 24/7. Not every burglar tries the front door. Not everyone has an alarm. Not every burglary occurs while the home is vacant for the alarm to be armed in the first place. Not everyone has a dog. Not every dog will do more than bark.

Laws are one-size-fits-all and have to account for everything, which means the law is going to apply to people it doesn't really need to. That's just how it is.
 
Wayne Jr said:
You think accounting for all the many states people maintain their homes in is making up a scenario? That's pretty dumb, buddy. Really dumb.

Not everyone lives alone and another resident might have people over, some of whom are children. Not everyone has their door locked 24/7. Not every burglar tries the front door. Not everyone has an alarm. Not every burglary occurs while the home is vacant for the alarm to be armed in the first place. Not everyone has a dog. Not every dog will do more than bark.

Laws are one-size-fits-all and have to account for everything, which means the law is going to apply to people it doesn't really need to. That's just how it is.
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Its stupid to push for laws that are merely malum prohibitum nonsense designed to hassle gun owners.
 
TurtleDude said:
Its stupid to push for laws that are merely malum prohibitum nonsense designed to hassle gun owners.
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Securing your guns is not harassment, it's basic gun safety. Lock up your guns or we'll Red Flag you and you won't have any guns anymore. That's the bottom line. We know you Molone Labes aren't going to fight back. You would have already.
 
Wayne Jr said:
Securing your guns is not harassment, it's basic gun safety. Lock up your guns or we'll Red Flag you and you won't have any guns anymore. That's the bottom line. We know you Molone Labes aren't going to fight back. You would have already.
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apdst said:
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From top to bottom: cam pin, firing pin, firing pin retaining pin.

There's never going to be a civil war over gun control. It would have happened already, many times over.
 
Wayne Jr said:
From top to bottom: cam pin, firing pin, firing pin retaining pin.

There's never going to be a civil war over gun control. It would have happened already, many times over.
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Let's hope not.
 
Wayne Jr said:
That you've taken steps to secure your guns doesn't mean everyone has. The law applies to everyone.
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If your home is locked and alarmed, you have taken sufficient steps to eliminate liability for a stolen firearm.
 
Wayne Jr said:
Securing your guns is not harassment, it's basic gun safety. Lock up your guns or we'll Red Flag you and you won't have any guns anymore. That's the bottom line. We know you Molone Labes aren't going to fight back. You would have already.
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That's just plain stupid thinking there. And that sort of attitude is why red flag laws are far more cancerous than their proponents claim. And who are you to tell others what to do? You talk about being pro gun, and then you shift to this sort of what is best seen as fascist nonsense.
 
TurtleDude said:
If your home is locked and alarmed, you have taken sufficient steps to eliminate liability for a stolen firearm.
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Incorrect, your home is not rated against forcible entry.
 
TurtleDude said:
That's just plain stupid thinking there. And that sort of attitude is why red flag laws are far more cancerous than their proponents claim. And who are you to tell others what to do? You talk about being pro gun, and then you shift to this sort of what is best seen as fascist nonsense.
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Securing your gun is not fascism, it's basic gun safety. People who want to just leave their guns laying around, shouldn't have guns at all. Either be responsible with it or we're taking it away. It's that simple.
 
Wayne Jr said:
Securing your gun is not fascism, it's basic gun safety. People who want to just leave their guns laying around, shouldn't have guns at all. Either be responsible with it or we're taking it away. It's that simple.
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Your definition of "securing" is based on harassing honest gun owners. People who lock their h homes and have alarms have done enough to prevent theft. Now I have several sophisticated safes with microwave alarms and some other surprises but the fact is-I am wealthy and can afford 3000 dollar safes for my collection. Most people cannot.
 
TurtleDude said:
show me the statute or case law that requires this.
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Why would you ask me to link to the very thing we're talking about making? You make no sense.

TurtleDude said:
Your definition of "securing" is based on harassing honest gun owners [military training]
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*fixed

Always keep your sensitive items secured. As it happens that toddlers are getting killed, we apparently need to make a law specifically telling people to lock up their guns. I didn't think gun owners were this stupid, but apparently the bar is set so low that we have start making examples out of people so they do what they should have don on their own.
 
Wayne Jr said:
Why would you ask me to link to the very thing we're talking about making? You make no sense.


*fixed

Always keep your sensitive items secured. As it happens that toddlers are getting killed, we apparently need to make a law specifically telling people to lock up their guns. I didn't think gun owners were this stupid, but apparently the bar is set so low that we have start making examples out of people so they do what they should have don on their own.
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the number of accidental shootings are going down. Your definition of what is stupid is not the same as most of us. If my doors and my alarm is sufficient to protect my family, its sufficient to protect my guns in terms of legal liability.

You have yet to define what is the sufficient level for a gun owner to meet your subjective standard. a several thousand dollar safe? One of those lock boxes that can be defeated with a crowbar or pry bar or large screwdriver or drill in less than five minutes? A security cabinet that has hard to pick locks but can be easily torch cut?
 
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