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Kid shoots mom gun owner charged

jaeger19 said:
Well vegas.. that's what ALL strawman purchases are..


You realize that right? A strawman purchase is where a person who can pass a background check.. purchases a firearm and then illegally sells it to a known restricted person.

So.. again.. please tell me.. I had a concealed weapons permit in NEW York city.... so what would stop me from buying a firearm legally.. and then selling it to my buddy (illegally in a straw purchase)

Oh it was just a background check and an interview for the carry concealed endorsement for NYC. There wasn't even a requirement for training.


The NYS permit was easier... no interview.
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First you have to find a gun in NYC. Gun show? Nope. Armslist? Nope. Private sale with no BC? Nope. Wow.....already your search got much much harder
 
jaeger19 said:
Well vegas.. that's what ALL strawman purchases are..


You realize that right? A strawman purchase is where a person who can pass a background check.. purchases a firearm and then illegally sells it to a known restricted person.

So.. again.. please tell me.. I had a concealed weapons permit in NEW York city.... so what would stop me from buying a firearm legally.. and then selling it to my buddy (illegally in a straw purchase)

Oh it was just a background check and an interview for the carry concealed endorsement for NYC. There wasn't even a requirement for training.


The NYS permit was easier... no interview.
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Hey that process does sound easy....let's nake it nationwide.....ok?
 
Chillfolks said:
Would you try safety training for a 6-8 about not talking to strangers or getting into vans with candy? Or if they are lost seek out a police officer?

I agree as an adult it is your responsibility, and part of that responsibility is teaching kids the basics of gun safety.

Had this child been taught to not touch the gun and seek out an adult the outcome may of been completely different.
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Maybe he would have remembered the "training', and sought out an adult. It is just as likely that he would pick up the gun and maybe fire it off. There is no sure way to tell.

And yes, I would try to "train" any child at an early age not to get into a van with a stranger, and to look for a police officer if he were lost. But I wouldn't count on that happening. It is MY responsibility to see that situation doesn't come up. Every day kids who have been warned about strangers get abducted because, despite the "training", they generally obey adults. And they don't always know a police officer even if they see one.

There was a documentary a while back about just this issue. Bottom line; you can't RELIABLY train a 6 or 8 year old. You cannot trust the training. And kids have short memories.

One example from the documentary is a guy walks up to a little kid in the park; a kid who has been trained not to interact with strangers. So the guy says, " Hi, my name is Bill and I've lost my dog. Would you help me find him?" 9 of 10 little kids willingly went with the guy. He was now Bill, and therefore not a stranger in their minds.

As you can see, words don't often even mean the same to little kids as they do to you and I. Your idea of "clean your room" is likely far different than what that 6 year old considers a "clean" room.

I will never depend on mere "training" alone to prevent gun accidents. It is MY responsibility to keep harmful things out of reach.
 
Casper said:
And straw purchase's are illegal per current laws, so it seems all the bases are already covered under current laws.
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Straw purchases may be illegal in some States, but it is unenforceable. You are never going to be able to stop a father from buying their son or daughter their very first firearm as a gift. Laws prohibiting straw purchases are not only unenforceable, but incredibly stupid as well. You simply can't prohibit people from giving gifts.
 
Glitch said:
Straw purchases may be illegal in some States, but it is unenforceable. You are never going to be able to stop a father from buying their son or daughter their very first firearm as a gift. Laws prohibiting straw purchases are not only unenforceable, but incredibly stupid as well. You simply can't prohibit people from giving gifts.
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Of course you can.

Registration
 
Glitch said:
Straw purchases may be illegal in some States, but it is unenforceable. You are never going to be able to stop a father from buying their son or daughter their very first firearm as a gift. Laws prohibiting straw purchases are not only unenforceable, but incredibly stupid as well. You simply can't prohibit people from giving gifts.
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Never said they were, I was commenting on the fact that they are illegal.
 
MrWonka said:
So we can't teach a kid how to safely operate a motor vehicle until their 16. Let them decide if they want to smoke cigarettes until their 18. Let them Drink until their 21. Let them rent a car until their 25, but somehow 8 years old is a perfectly reasonable time to start teaching your children about proper gun use. I'm pretty sure when I was 8 I hadn't mastered multiplication tables yet. In little league they were still having us hit the ball off of a tee.

Bottom line for me is that if you own a gun you should be held responsible for letting it get into the wrong hands. That goes for anybody who wants to sell a gun too. It should be your responsibility to make a reasonable attempt to verify that the person buying it isn't looking to use it for violence. We can make that very easy by creating a national gun exchange that would run a check of whatever databases needed to be checked within a few minutes.
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How old are they when we teach them about crossing the street, hot stoves, sticking stuff in wall sockets, etc? The training 8 year-old, or younger receive isn't to turn them into mini-marksmen, it to make them aware of the dangers of guns and what to do if they find one. We teach kid to dial 9-1-1, right? Why not teach them to not touch the gun and tell an adult?
 
Bullseye said:
How old are they when we teach them about crossing the street, hot stoves, sticking stuff in wall sockets, etc? The training 8 year-old, or younger receive isn't to turn them into mini-marksmen, it to make them aware of the dangers of guns and what to do if they find one. We teach kid to dial 9-1-1, right? Why not teach them to not touch the gun and tell an adult?
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I recall very vividly having to continuously ride my tricycle around the block at age 3 because I was prohibited from crossing the street without an adult. I'm not sure when I figured out about hot stoves, but I was 5 when I became aware of the dangers of the electrical wall sockets. I saw my younger sister get a nasty electrical shock. I also helped clean my father's firearms after his hunts, where he took the opportunity to educate me in firearm safety. I was 6 years old at that time, but would not be allowed to shoot one of my father's firearms until I was 8 years old. Two years after I showed him I was a competent shot and handled his firearms safely he finally bought me my own Winchester Model 1912 12-gauge pump-action shotgun on my 10th birthday. Little did either of us know then that 25 years later California would illegally ban that very same firearm.
 
Training a kid is always good. Just don't count on it. Back it up by locking up the dangerous stuff.
 
Chillfolks said:
8-year-old boy accidentally shoots mother at baseball game, gun owner charged

I have no problem with the gun owner being charged in this case.

Long and short A man brought his gun to a baseball game. At some point he lost it and it ends up in a WWII Jeep that was at the stadium. A kid finds the gun, thinks it’s a toy and accidentally shoots mom.

While I think it’s extremely important to teach children about gun safety and that would of gone a long way in preventing this. Ultimately any gun owner exercising their right to carry they have the responsibility to keep their firearm secure. This man failed to do so and is rightfully being changed for his recklessness
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So much for conceal carry permits. Might as well let anyone conceal carry if you are going to authorize people like this Charles McFarland to carry. The minute he lost that gun in a public place the authorities should have been notified and looking for it. I mean everyone until it was found. If the kid found it so should have authorities. Sad. I have been a gun owner my entire life and have never lost my gun. But if I had lost my gun in public place I would have everyone and their brother looking for it. In the military we had to find every spent shell casing and account for every and all ammunition. I could not imagine losing my gun. Unbelievable.
 
Glitch said:
Only an idiot registers a firearm. Registration is the first step towards confiscation.
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Millions and millions of people have registered guns and not had them confiscated. Lol
 
Waddy said:
Maybe he would have remembered the "training', and sought out an adult. It is just as likely that he would pick up the gun and maybe fire it off. There is no sure way to tell.

And yes, I would try to "train" any child at an early age not to get into a van with a stranger, and to look for a police officer if he were lost. But I wouldn't count on that happening. It is MY responsibility to see that situation doesn't come up. Every day kids who have been warned about strangers get abducted because, despite the "training", they generally obey adults. And they don't always know a police officer even if they see one.

There was a documentary a while back about just this issue. Bottom line; you can't RELIABLY train a 6 or 8 year old. You cannot trust the training. And kids have short memories.

One example from the documentary is a guy walks up to a little kid in the park; a kid who has been trained not to interact with strangers. So the guy says, " Hi, my name is Bill and I've lost my dog. Would you help me find him?" 9 of 10 little kids willingly went with the guy. He was now Bill, and therefore not a stranger in their minds.

As you can see, words don't often even mean the same to little kids as they do to you and I. Your idea of "clean your room" is likely far different than what that 6 year old considers a "clean" room.

I will never depend on mere "training" alone to prevent gun accidents. It is MY responsibility to keep harmful things out of reach.
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Smart move. Good thing no one is suggesting training alone. I'm suggesting it as a supplement layer of protection
 
trixare4kids said:
Agree with PC Dunbar.
"Secure your weapons," Millington Police Chief Mark Dunbar said. "Everybody's got a right to carry, if they got a carry permit, but you need to use common sense and secure your weapons."
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Hopefully this man's rights will be restricted. He's not sensible enough. Maybe he's never been and it was just a matter of time, but in any case it is clear that he doesn't have enough sense anymore.
 
Waddy said:
I respect your views, but generally you can't teach gun safety to an 8 year old. Kids mature at different rates. there may be a few who can be taught, and will follow those instructions, but you really have no sure way of knowing. I waited until my kids were at least twelve to take them to the range. And I keep my guns in the safe.

I also learned it wasn't just guns I needed to lock up. I came home one day and found some nails in a board that had been placed in the trash. Also a couple of nails in the rafters that didn't belong there. After a "come to Jesus" meeting with my oldest son, I found that he and some pals had hooked up my framing nailer and fired some nails into various boards. He knew how to operate it just by watching me. Both of us got a lesson that day. I locked up everything in the shop I thought could be dangerous, and he couldn't mess with much of anything for a few days. My takeaway; boys are stupid....very, very, very stupid. Then I remembered me and some pals used to play dodge in front of fast moving locomotives.
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I was taught gun safety at age eight, too:

"If I ever hear of you even going NEAR a gun, I will whoop you till you can't walk straight, do you understand?"

Later on, around age eleven, he took me to a range and taught me how to shoot, and taught me proper respect and handling but his warning only changed to. "If I ever hear of you even going NEAR a gun WITHOUT MY SUPERVISION"

I too believe that there is an age-appropriate issue here. Some eight year olds get it and some don't even after a hands on session on gun safety. For some, reality isn't "really real" until something happens.
And the point of the news story is, the weapon was not secured, it was available to anyone who found it.

If he isn't convicted, that's a damn shame, because he should be. And if the mother dies, he's responsible.
This was a totally avoidable situation.

PS: I am a gun owner, so don't even start with me.
 
vegas giants said:
Mandatory is all that works
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Ok well that wpild be opposed by most rational people who own guns. Better to have a voluntary program than nothing at all.
 
Chillfolks said:
Ok well that wpild be opposed by most rational people who own guns. Better to have a voluntary program than nothing at all.
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Better to have a program that works over one that doesnt
 
vegas giants said:
Better to have a program that works over one that doesnt
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It only works if people comply with the law. If a voluntary program reduces crime significantly then there may be support for a mandatory one. Or we can have nothing if You prefer to to compromise
 
Chillfolks said:
It only works if people comply with the law. If a voluntary program reduces crime significantly then there may be support for a mandatory one. Or we can have nothing if You prefer to to compromise
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Or we can have a mandatory program.

Who made you king?
 
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