• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

CLAX1911

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
82,024
Reaction score
19,723
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Among other things gun registration will not happen. And I will explain why.

Take a scenario you have a person with a gun and the government says register it and he registers. Should it get stolen he has the duty to report it to the police in a timely fashion lest he be suspected for any crime it should be involved in. So why would he register it? It's a lose-lose situation for him.

This sort of ties into universal background checks as well. The idea as I understand it, is to perform a background check on a person to person sale. if person A wants to sell his gun to person B all he does is trade the gun for money and he can do that anyway there's no way the government would know about it. Requiring person A to do a background check for most certainly a fee, wait for info to come back from the government which takes weeks sometimes months, to sell the gun to person B. If by some magical feet there is a registration that is functional, person A would just sell it to a person B and report it stolen to save himself the trouble the cost and the time.

These are practical reasons why these things aren't common sense.

Your thoughts?
 
CLAX1911 said:
Among other things gun registration will not happen. And I will explain why.

Take a scenario you have a person with a gun and the government says register it and he registers. Should it get stolen he has the duty to report it to the police in a timely fashion lest he be suspected for any crime it should be involved in. So why would he register it? It's a lose-lose situation for him.

This sort of ties into universal background checks as well. The idea as I understand it, is to perform a background check on a person to person sale. if person A wants to sell his gun to person B all he does is trade the gun for money and he can do that anyway there's no way the government would know about it. Requiring person A to do a background check for most certainly a fee, wait for info to come back from the government which takes weeks sometimes months, to sell the gun to person B. If by some magical feet there is a registration that is functional, person A would just sell it to a person B and report it stolen to save himself the trouble the cost and the time.

These are practical reasons why these things aren't common sense.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Your notion concerning registering firearms as a lose - lose situation is unsubstantiated paranoia. Arguing that registration is bad because if your firearm is stolen, and you fail to report it “in a timely fashion”, you could be charged with any crime it may used in is ridiculous on it's face. Police don’t arrest and charge people based solely on who owns the firearm. Plain stupid.

Also, your understanding of how background checks are conducted is utterly wrong. It does not take “weeks sometimes months”. Nowhere near that.

“If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after three business days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer). If the FFL transfers the firearm, the FFL must mark “No resolution was provided within three business days” on line 21d of the ATF Form 4473. It is recommended the FFL record the date provided in the delay response on which the firearm may be lawfully transferred under federal law if a final determination of proceed or denied is not received from the NICS.”

Lots more info here About NICS — FBI to educate yourself. Please take advantage of it.
 
actually surprised you didn't mention possible government tyranny involved in having a list of gun owners

that probably would've made more sense that the **** you did mention lmao

also, just to put in into perspective - my last gun purchase, the background check took 5-10 minutes.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Your notion concerning registering firearms as a lose - lose situation is unsubstantiated paranoia.
Click to expand...
How so? If I choose to register my firearm then I'll be beholden to the government as far as the chain of custody. If I don't I'm not. Nobody is going to register their guns even if it is mandatory.

Arguing that registration is bad because if your firearm is stolen, and you fail to report it “in a timely fashion”, you could be charged with any crime it may used in is ridiculous on it's face. Police don’t arrest and charge people based solely on who owns the firearm. Plain stupid.
Click to expand...
So there is no point to a fire arms registration?

Also, your understanding of how background checks are conducted is utterly wrong. It does not take “weeks sometimes months”. Nowhere near that.

“If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after three business days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer). If the FFL transfers the firearm, the FFL must mark “No resolution was provided within three business days” on line 21d of the ATF Form 4473. It is recommended the FFL record the date provided in the delay response on which the firearm may be lawfully transferred under federal law if a final determination of proceed or denied is not received from the NICS.”
Click to expand...
what if you purchase a gun from someone who isn't an FFL dealer?

Lots more info here About NICS — FBI to educate yourself. Please take advantage of it.
Click to expand...
If there is something from that link you want me to read copy in paste it. If not don't bother linking. I'm not going to "read a link." I am a busy man and I don't have time for that noise.
 
nekrodev said:
actually surprised you didn't mention possible government tyranny involved in having a list of gun owners
Click to expand...
Whenever I mentioned that I'm dismissed as a conspiracy theorist. I've already played that game, got the tee shirt and coffee mug. No thanks.

that probably would've made more sense that the **** you did mention lmao
Click to expand...
So no ability to argue against my points?

Okay your ineptitude is noted.

also, just to put in into perspective - my last gun purchase, the background check took 5-10 minutes.
Click to expand...
So you think the current background check is sufficient?
 
CLAX1911 said:
How so?
Click to expand...
Already explained in the first paragraph of my post.

CLAX1911 said:
So there is no point to a fire arms registration?
Click to expand...
Your argument against firearms registration certainly doesn’t make a valid point.

CLAX1911 said:
what if you purchase a gun from someone who isn't an FFL dealer?
Click to expand...
Currently? Depending on state laws, it’s perfectly legal without a background check.

CLAX1911 said:
If there is something from that link you want me to read copy in paste it. If not don't bother linking. I'm not going to "read a link." I am a busy man and I don't have time for that noise.
Click to expand...
If you have time to post an error ridden thread you have time read and learn first.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Your notion concerning registering firearms as a lose - lose situation is unsubstantiated paranoia. Arguing that registration is bad because if your firearm is stolen, and you fail to report it “in a timely fashion”, you could be charged with any crime it may used in is ridiculous on it's face. Police don’t arrest and charge people based solely on who owns the firearm. Plain stupid.

Also, your understanding of how background checks are conducted is utterly wrong. It does not take “weeks sometimes months”. Nowhere near that.

“If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after three business days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer). If the FFL transfers the firearm, the FFL must mark “No resolution was provided within three business days” on line 21d of the ATF Form 4473. It is recommended the FFL record the date provided in the delay response on which the firearm may be lawfully transferred under federal law if a final determination of proceed or denied is not received from the NICS.”

Lots more info here About NICS — FBI to educate yourself. Please take advantage of it.
Click to expand...

registration of firearms has NO benefits to legal gun owners.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
It does not take “weeks sometimes months”. Nowhere near that.

“If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after three business days ....
Click to expand...


Of course, Dems are trying to change that too.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Among other things gun registration will not happen. And I will explain why.

Take a scenario you have a person with a gun and the government says register it and he registers. Should it get stolen he has the duty to report it to the police in a timely fashion lest he be suspected for any crime it should be involved in. So why would he register it? It's a lose-lose situation for him.

This sort of ties into universal background checks as well. The idea as I understand it, is to perform a background check on a person to person sale. if person A wants to sell his gun to person B all he does is trade the gun for money and he can do that anyway there's no way the government would know about it. Requiring person A to do a background check for most certainly a fee, wait for info to come back from the government which takes weeks sometimes months, to sell the gun to person B. If by some magical feet there is a registration that is functional, person A would just sell it to a person B and report it stolen to save himself the trouble the cost and the time.

These are practical reasons why these things aren't common sense.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

If I were told to register my firearms i, along with almost everyone I know would not comply. That said if one were stolen I would report it and provide serial numbers and pictures, I want those found with it caught and I might get lucky and get it back, doubtful.
 
Except that Hawaii and MA already do have gun registration. Hawaii does for sure, I believe MA does.

But as far as I know it hasnt been challenged in the higher federal courts. It needs to be...and registration needs to be thrown out as unConstitutional.

There's a thread on here somewhere about a current challenge to HI's law by a legal non-citizen. I hope it goes somewhere towards ending registration in HI.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Among other things gun registration will not happen. And I will explain why.
Click to expand...
Racial intermarriage was never going to happen.

The passage of civil rights legislation was never going to happen.

Same-sex marriage was never going to happen.

Legalizing marijuana was never going to happen.

A Democrat winning a state-wide race in Alabama was never going to happen.

What were you saying again?


Take a scenario you have a person with a gun and the government says register it and he registers. Should it get stolen he has the duty to report it to the police in a timely fashion lest he be suspected for any crime it should be involved in. So why would he register it?
Click to expand...
1) Registration at point of sale. Donezo.

2) If he or she ever uses the unregistered gun, they're in legal trouble. Heck, we could even make temporary loss of access to firearms as part of the punishment for failure to register.

3) If you register your car, and you get into an accident, you could be held accountable for the accident. So why would anyone register their car?!?


Requiring person A to do a background check for most certainly a fee, wait for info to come back from the government which takes weeks sometimes months, to sell the gun to person B. If by some magical feet there is a registration that is functional, person A would just sell it to a person B and report it stolen to save himself the trouble the cost and the time.
Click to expand...
1) "feat" not "feet"

2) NICS is already functional. It's not going to take "weeks sometimes months." It will take minutes.

3) If you sell a gun in a private sale, and that gun is used by that buyer in a murder, and it turns out they were not supposed to possess any firearms, are you just going to shrug it off?
 
Lursa said:
But as far as I know it hasnt been challenged in the higher federal courts. It needs to be...and registration needs to be thrown out as unConstitutional.
Click to expand...
News flash! A law is not unconstitutional just because you dislike it.

Municipal, state and federal governments undoubtedly have the right to regulate firearms. Even Scalia recognized that in Heller. What those governments can't do is develop regulations that are so restrictive that it prevents legitimate ownership of specific classes of firearms.

And no, registration doesn't block ownership. If it did, none of us would own cars or homes or businesses.
 
Visbek said:
News flash! A law is not unconstitutional just because you dislike it.

Municipal, state and federal governments undoubtedly have the right to regulate firearms. Even Scalia recognized that in Heller. What those governments can't do is develop regulations that are so restrictive that it prevents legitimate ownership of specific classes of firearms.

And no, registration doesn't block ownership. If it did, none of us would own cars or homes or businesses.
Click to expand...

Newsflash....I never said it was 'because I wanted it.'

I never said any of the crap you are posting, like 'registration blocking ownership.' Regulation is not = to registration. Registration enables a govt to track down the guns and confiscate them when they feel there is a danger to their control. It is the opposite of the foundation behind the 2A.

Registration also serves no other practical purpose besides identifying who owns a firearm. It doesnt prevent any gun violence or crime or accidents.
 
Im fine with a voluntary registration program to see if it reduces gun violence in any meaningful or measurable way.
 
Tlrmln said:
Of course, Dems are trying to change that too.
Click to expand...

and they probably should. you shouldn't be able to get your gun just because the background check is taking a bit longer. if anything, that's probably a sign that you definitely SHOULD NOT get the gun.
 
Chillfolks said:
Im fine with a voluntary registration program to see if it reduces gun violence in any meaningful or measurable way.
Click to expand...

why would it? anyone honest and willing enough to do it without being forced probably isn't someone you need to worry about anyway.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Already explained in the first paragraph of my post.
Click to expand...
Not to a satisfactory degree. If that's all you got thanks for playing.


Your argument against firearms registration certainly doesn’t make a valid point.
Click to expand...
I think you're just saying that because you can't argue against it.

essentially the point is people aren't going to do it. It will be a form of civil disobedience. I certainly won't I don't have anything to lose not doing it.


Currently? Depending on state laws, it’s perfectly legal without a background check.
Click to expand...
legal or illegal you're on the honor system. I can simply sell a gun without doing a background check give my finger to the federal government or state government and what are they going to do?

Nobody's going to do that especially people who want to sell them to criminals.


If you have time to post an error ridden thread you have time read and learn first.
Click to expand...
read and learn what what errors did I make? I'm contending that I didn't that you're just saying that because you can't argue my points.

If they workers you would be able to argue against me with one hand tied behind your back. So far you haven't addressed any of my points.
 
nekrodev said:
why would it? anyone honest and willing enough to do it without being forced probably isn't someone you need to worry about anyway.
Click to expand...

I don't really think it will, but I would be willing to entertain a voluntary program to get results proving it did not. Or if it did then I woild be pleasantly surprised.
 
Visbek said:
News flash! A law is not unconstitutional just because you dislike it.

Municipal, state and federal governments undoubtedly have the right to regulate firearms. Even Scalia recognized that in Heller. What those governments can't do is develop regulations that are so restrictive that it prevents legitimate ownership of specific classes of firearms.

And no, registration doesn't block ownership. If it did, none of us would own cars or homes or businesses.
Click to expand...

Tell us-after the Lopez decision, how the federal government gains the power-via the Commerce Clause-to demand registration of firearms that are no longer moving in interstate commerce and have been owned by private citizens for years.
 
Casper said:
If I were told to register my firearms i, along with almost everyone I know would not comply.
Click to expand...
exactly it would be in your best interest not to. It is only in the government's interest for you to do it. so it wouldn't be out of Civil disobedience alone it would be out of convenience.
That said if one were stolen I would report it and provide serial numbers and pictures, I want those found with it caught and I might get lucky and get it back, doubtful.
Click to expand...
I actually got one back that was stolen from me. There was stolen from me in August 2015 I reported it to the police and the gun was recovered the FFL that sold it to me sent me a message that it was recovered in Louisiana and I was going that way anyway at that time so I made a little Gator and picked it up.

It was a little 40 caliber millennium Taurus piece of crap but it's my piece of crap.
 
Chillfolks said:
Im fine with a voluntary registration program to see if it reduces gun violence in any meaningful or measurable way.
Click to expand...

Given the vast majority of firearms facilitated intentional violence is caused by people who cannot legally own firearms, and would be incriminating themselves as violating 18 USC 922 if they registered firearms they illegally possess, I would suggest voluntary registration wouldn't accomplish much of anything useful
 
nekrodev said:
why would it? anyone honest and willing enough to do it without being forced probably isn't someone you need to worry about anyway.
Click to expand...

Shhhh, that is waaaay too deep, the criminal element will all obey and be good Citizens. Oh did I mention I have some good fertile bottom land to sell, all ya got to do is drain the swamp, get rid of the all the Gators and Snake's and pray it does not rain, it's a great deal, for someone.
 
Visbek said:
Racial intermarriage was never going to happen.

The passage of civil rights legislation was never going to happen.

Same-sex marriage was never going to happen.

Legalizing marijuana was never going to happen.

A Democrat winning a state-wide race in Alabama was never going to happen.

What were you saying again?
Click to expand...
a gun registration is not going to happen. just because a few things happened to expand the rights of individuals doesn't mean something will to take them away.

Besides a registration is unenforceable.



1) Registration at point of sale. Donezo.
Click to expand...
there still are hundreds of millions of guns already owned by the populist and I will not register mine and nobody else is going to either.

2) If he or she ever uses the unregistered gun, they're in legal trouble. Heck, we could even make temporary loss of access to firearms as part of the punishment for failure to register.
Click to expand...
how are you going to know who has them?

3) If you register your car, and you get into an accident, you could be held accountable for the accident. So why would anyone register their car?!?
Click to expand...
Lol, really?

If you drive your car on the public roads to get somewhere you're doing that in plain sight you can't put your car in your pocket so a police officer can see you driving it and see that you don't have a license plate or that your license plate is expired. He'll least days they have something that reads it automatically.

I've never driven around in a gun nor do I put license plates on it fact whenever I'm carrying it nobody knows I have it. So it would be a little more difficult to enforce.


Too funny.



1) "feat" not "feet"

2) NICS is already functional. It's not going to take "weeks sometimes months." It will take minutes.
Click to expand...
but if I'm not an FFL why should I do it?

3) If you sell a gun in a private sale, and that gun is used by that buyer in a murder, and it turns out they were not supposed to possess any firearms, are you just going to shrug it off?
Click to expand...

Yes I didn't kill anybody. If I sold my car to some Chevelle I wouldn't have to check to see if they have a suspended license or if they have the ability to drive a car. All I have to check for is money.

Further if I didn't buy it from an FFL how would anybody know it was my gun anyway?
 
Lursa said:
Except that Hawaii and MA already do have gun registration. Hawaii does for sure, I believe MA does.

But as far as I know it hasnt been challenged in the higher federal courts. It needs to be...and registration needs to be thrown out as unConstitutional.

There's a thread on here somewhere about a current challenge to HI's law by a legal non-citizen. I hope it goes somewhere towards ending registration in HI.
Click to expand...
Yes I would love to see the court say that they can't do this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom