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Thread: Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

  1. #141
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    Re: Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    Red:
    Argumentative failure --> The predicate you stipulated does not include any "lest one be suspected of ..." provision. It expressly states "the government says register it," but that's it. You've "injected" the "if, then, else" constraint, rather than including it the predicate of your scenario.
    So there is no point. In registration?

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    Re: Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaleBulgarian View Post
    Wall? Huh? Wall??
    Excuse me my apologies, I meant law.

    So if the law would have been ineffective stopping someone like roof, what is its purpose?

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    Re: Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    Red:
    Argumentative failure --> The predicate you stipulated does not include any "lest one be suspected of ..." provision. It expressly states "the government says register it," but that's it. You've "injected" the "if, then, else" constraint, rather than including it the predicate of your scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    So there is no point. In registration?
    Whether there is or isn't is unestablished by the argument you presented.

  4. #144
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    Re: Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    So, you basically don't understand how laws work. Good to know.
    this isn't really about how the law works because that's really straightforward this is about how it's enforced. If it's enforced by voluntary means then it's not mandatory.



    Yes, your lack of care is precisely the problem. Pointing out the consequences and moral failures of your position are not a "straw man."
    why is it a moral failing not to care about having access to the nics database? I'm sorry that statement doesn't make any kind of sense.



    sigh

    I never said that it was exactly the same, but thanks for deliberately misrepresenting my position. The problem is that a normal human being ought to at least feel some responsibility if they a) refuse to lift a finger to make sure the transaction is actually legal, and b) the weapon is subsequently used for an illegal and harmful purpose.
    I disagree people should be responsible for their own actions they shouldn't be able to blame the person that sold them the gun. just like if someone went around and stabs people to death they shouldn't blame the person who sold them the knife that's moronic that is not morality that is stupidity.

    In fact, some people feel responsible when they do fulfill their responsibilities to check on the legality of a sale, and it was used in a violent crime.
    so some people are idiots who cares?

    For example, Sunrise Tactical sold an AR-15 to the man who murdered 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High. They performed the required checks, it was a legal sale, but the existing databases didn't track whether he had any mental health issues -- that was literally just a checkbox on a form. The owners of Sunrise still were so distraught that they closed their gun store. That is a normal human reaction.
    I disagreed it's an idiotic human reaction. The gun shop that's holding the gun didn't do anything wrong. and you're never going to convince me that they should have any sort of guilt for it.

    so if you're trying to shame me into agreement with you using words like it's normal or it's accepted or it's common it's not going to work. Feelings of guilt are often misplaced.

    Your pride in your own callousness is, to put it mildly, not impressive.
    your evaluation of my personality and thoughts is first off wrong II stupid. Whatever you using to define my mood tarot cards crystal balls it's all bunk.

    Seriously though I don't give half a **** if you think I'm callous or proud.



    Yaay, more irrational imputations

    Absolutely nothing about registration or UBCs involves hysterical death sentences based on superstitions. The only hysterics here are those who think that "gun registration means confiscation!!!" or "UBCs are evil!!!"
    this is a stupid argument I did not say that it was leading up to confiscation. I said it was impossible to enforce.

    so please continue arguing against something I never said as if it's relevant at all to the discussion.


    lol... Yeah, it goes way beyond that. They know your purchasing habits, they know everything you search for, they know who you're communicating with, the list goes on.
    they know everything I use my phone for or my computer. They don't know everything about me.

    Sounds to me like you're paranoid about things that don't exist, and insufficiently paranoid about things that do.
    what am I paranoid about?

    It should also be obvious that in a modern totalitarian state, you'd have essentially zero privacy. And yes, it won't take them long to figure out who's against the state. Good luck with that.
    you say I'm paranoid and you keep talking about totalitarian States. Do you know what you're talkin about?



    lol... Well, you just stated on a public messaging board that you hide your weapons. Smooth move, Ferguson.
    but no one knows where.

    You obviously have no conception of how effective a totalitarian government can be, or how it operates.
    they never fail do they?



    It is your logic.
    to wit I asked you how does it follow and you didn't say. so I've got your idiotic claim that some stupid nonsense you made up is my logic but I don't have anything showing me how it is.

    You just don't understand the consequences of your own position.
    don't blame me because you're too much of a flunky to explain these consequences in a way that anyone can understand. I assume that means there's not any and you just disagree and want to have some position of superiority because it's what the people who can't back up their claims do.

  5. #145
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    Re: Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    Whether there is or isn't is unestablished by the argument you presented.
    Correct it was established by the statement you made.

    If I can sell my gun to criminal and not report it stolen and please find them figure out the gun was registered to me and they don't do anything to me then the registration would serve no purpose.

    if it does continue to serve a purpose after that please explain to me what it would be I am all ears.

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    Re: Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    Among other things gun registration will not happen. And I will explain why.

    Take a scenario you have a person with a gun and the government says register it and he registers. Should it get stolen he has the duty to report it to the police in a timely fashion lest he be suspected for any crime it should be involved in. So why would he register it? It's a lose-lose situation for him.

    This sort of ties into universal background checks as well. The idea as I understand it, is to perform a background check on a person to person sale. if person A wants to sell his gun to person B all he does is trade the gun for money and he can do that anyway there's no way the government would know about it. Requiring person A to do a background check for most certainly a fee, wait for info to come back from the government which takes weeks sometimes months, to sell the gun to person B. If by some magical feet there is a registration that is functional, person A would just sell it to a person B and report it stolen to save himself the trouble the cost and the time.

    These are practical reasons why these things aren't common sense.

    Your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    Red:
    Argumentative failure --> The predicate you stipulated does not include any "lest one be suspected of ..." provision. It expressly states "the government says register it," but that's it. You've "injected" the "if, then, else" constraint, rather than including it the predicate of your scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    So there is no point. In registration?

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    Correct it was established by the statement you made.

    If I can sell my gun to criminal and not report it stolen and please find them figure out the gun was registered to me and they don't do anything to me then the registration would serve no purpose.

    if it does continue to serve a purpose after that please explain to me what it would be I am all ears.
    Blue:
    You just keep thinking that...

  7. #147
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    Re: Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    Excuse me my apologies, I meant law.

    So if the law would have been ineffective stopping someone like roof, what is its purpose?
    The law wasn’t the cause in Roof’s case, failure to properly implement the law was.
    “If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,” he wrote. “Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgement.”

  8. #148
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    Re: Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaleBulgarian View Post
    Save that speech for someone else, because I’m not going allow you to manipulate the direction of our conversation. You, TurtleDude (not the U.S. government), have implied that requiring registration of our firearms is somehow a violation of our 2nd amendment rights and I’m asking you to make your case. Well, can you?
    If firearm registration was entirely voluntary, then it would not violate the US Constitution. However, a mandatory registration violates the Second Amendment because any penalty for not registering a firearm would be an infringement of the individual right to keep and bear arms. If there is no penalty, then there is no infringement.

    As long as government maintains the ability to confiscate all firearms through registration, it will always be an infringement. Before you claim that something like that would never happen, it already has - several times.

    In 1934 NAZI German required all private firearms to be registered. By 1937 all private firearms were banned in Germany. Because Germans had registered their firearms, the NAZI's knew exactly who to collect them from. More recently, in 1991 Australia began requiring all private firearms to be registered. By 1997 Australia began rounding up those registered firearms. Even more recently the Canadians began requiring private firearms to be registered in 1995. By 2014 Canada began confiscating those registered firearms.

    The only purpose for the government registration of firearms is to give the government the ability to seize those firearms from the morons who registered them in the first place. Anyone who registers a firearm is monumentally stupid and shouldn't ever be allowed to own a firearm in the first place. They are simply too stupid to own a firearm.

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    Re: Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    There is no such thing as a 'ghost gun'.

    First...the owner is NOT 'wrong'. The Federal Government and Constitution provides for the right to keep and bear arms. As it is specifically addressed states rights and laws are superseded. Now you would probably disagree with that statement...right up until I then point out that by your logic states should then have the right to ban gay weddings. And of course you will respond by saying Nu UHN UH!!!!! cause the 14th!!!

    That being said...California does not prevent people from building guns from 80% lower blocks. Ca law requires a serial number be assigned...which is what happened.

    Finally..all you are doing is avoiding the FACT that the man registered his gun...and the government then confiscated it.
    Actually, the Supreme Court held that the individual right to keep and bear arms was binding upon the States in McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010), and California frequently violates the Second Amendment, among numerous other protected rights under the US Constitution. It is very obvious that Democrats don't give a damn about the US Constitution, considering it is always, without exception, the Democrat-controlled States who continually violate the rights of the people.

  10. #150
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    Re: Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    If firearm registration was entirely voluntary, then it would not violate the US Constitution. However, a mandatory registration violates the Second Amendment because any penalty for not registering a firearm would be an infringement of the individual right to keep and bear arms. If there is no penalty, then there is no infringement.

    As long as government maintains the ability to confiscate all firearms through registration, it will always be an infringement. Before you claim that something like that would never happen, it already has - several times.

    In 1934 NAZI German required all private firearms to be registered. By 1937 all private firearms were banned in Germany. Because Germans had registered their firearms, the NAZI's knew exactly who to collect them from. More recently, in 1991 Australia began requiring all private firearms to be registered. By 1997 Australia began rounding up those registered firearms. Even more recently the Canadians began requiring private firearms to be registered in 1995. By 2014 Canada began confiscating those registered firearms.

    The only purpose for the government registration of firearms is to give the government the ability to seize those firearms from the morons who registered them in the first place. Anyone who registers a firearm is monumentally stupid and shouldn't ever be allowed to own a firearm in the first place. They are simply too stupid to own a firearm.
    Unless the penalty of failing to register is confiscation, there is no infringement.

    And arguing what might happen down the road is not germane to the immediate issue.

    * I am not for or against registering firearms. Just participating in the debate, playing devil’s advocate.
    “If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,” he wrote. “Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgement.”

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