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Reason why a gun registration will not happen.

sigh

Mandatory firearm registration dates back to at least 1934, and has never been found unconstitutional. Heller, by the way, did not find that registration on its own was unconstitutional; the problem in that case was the specific combination of a) requiring all handguns to be registered AND b) the city refusing to register handguns in almost all circumstances, thus resulting in a de facto ban.

If registration on its own was a problem, it would have been rejected as a mechanism in Heller. But, it wasn't.

I know of no challenges specifically to firearm registration on its own. If you know of one, then you ought to identify it.

Heller had absolutely nothing to do with firearm registration. The issue of firearm registration has never been brought before the Supreme Court. Any form of mandatory firearm registration is unconstitutional because it is an infringement. The only time it is not an infringement is when it is voluntary.
 
My oft stated position is that yes...Ca and other states are violating the 2nd Amendment...and thats obvious...BUT...if the people in CA arent willing to fight it, thats on them.

I was born in that ****hole state. I wont every move back.

I was also born in California. I moved to Alaska in 1991 after California banned two of the firearms I had legally purchased and owned for years in California in 1989 (there was no grandfather clause). I became an NRA Life Member, and joined the NRA-ILA Steering Committee for Alaska. Shortly thereafter, I helped Alaska adopt an amendment to the State Constitution in 1994 that acknowledged that firearm ownership and possession was an individual right. I have been in Alaska, working to further protect our constitutional rights, ever since.

The very last thing I want to happen is for Alaska to become anything like the fascist anti-American leftist State of California.
 
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I was also born in California. I moved to Alaska in 1991 after California banned two of the firearms I had legally purchased and owned for years in California in 1989 (there was no grandfather clause). I became an NRA Life Member, and joined the NRA-ILA Steering Committee for Alaska. Shortly thereafter, I helped Alaska adopt an amendment to the State Constitution in 1994 that acknowledged that firearm ownership and possession was an individual right. I have been in Alaska, working to further protect our constitutional rights, ever since.

The very last thing I want to happen is for Alaska to become anything like the fascist anti-American leftist State of California.
The bad part about California right now is there are a bunch of leftists that have turned that ****hole into a roach motel and they cant stand living there anymore so they scamper throughout the country infecting the rest of the country and turn them into the ****holes they just left.
 
The bad part about California right now is there are a bunch of leftists that have turned that ****hole into a roach motel and they cant stand living there anymore so they scamper throughout the country infecting the rest of the country and turn them into the ****holes they just left.

They must be avoiding Alaska, because we haven't seen any such anti-American leftist filth moving here. They probably moved to other leftist sh*tholes, like one of the New England States, DC, Hawaii, Illinois, Michigan, or Louisiana, where they get off violating the rights of Americans.

That is why I chose Alaska. It is least likely to have anti-American leftist scum because Alaska is very pro-gun.
 
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Heller had absolutely nothing to do with firearm registration.
lol

Unsurprisingly, you just don't understand the case. One of the two key parts of the case was that Heller wanted to legally possess a handgun in DC. In order to do so, he had to register it; however, DC allowed so few registrations that the laws essentially operated as a handgun ban.

Heller didn't say "registration is unconstitutional, therefore the requirement to register the firearm is invalid." That argument would not have worked, and his lawyers knew it. From the syllabus of Heller:

Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement. Assuming he is not disqualified from exercising Second Amendment rights, the District must permit Heller to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home.


The appeals court also was very clear on this point:
Essentially, the appellants claim a right to possess what they describe as “functional firearms,” by which they mean ones that could be “readily accessible to be used effectively when necessary” for self-defense in the home. They are not asserting a right to carry such weapons outside their homes. Nor are they challenging the District’s authority per se to require the registration of firearms....

Reasonable restrictions also might be thought consistent with a “well regulated Militia.” The registration of firearms gives the government information as to how many people would be armed for militia service if called up.

https://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/E23F1D1340E39A99852574400045380B/$file/04-7041a.pdf

So: His legal team knew they wouldn't get anywhere by challenging the power of the government to mandate registration. That's why he sued for the right to register, and thus legally possess, new handguns.


The issue of firearm registration has never been brought before the Supreme Court. Any form of mandatory firearm registration is unconstitutional because it is an infringement. The only time it is not an infringement is when it is voluntary.
lol

The majority opinion in Heller made it very clear that governments can regulate firearms, including registration:

Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.

So again... Mandatory registration itself is fine. A registration process only infringes IF it actually bars legitimate residents from owning certain classes of firearms, such as handguns or rifles (e.g. DC essentially refusing to register any handguns).

Screeching "it's unconstitutional because I say it's unconstitutional!" is meaningless, and shows that you do not understand the basic functions and concepts of rights, Constitutional law and registration, let alone the actual history and jurisprudence relevant to the determination of the constitutionality of said laws. Maybe you ought to, y'know, actually read up on a few things before continuing with that baseless line of argument. Just a thought.
 
lol

Unsurprisingly, you just don't understand the case. One of the two key parts of the case was that Heller wanted to legally possess a handgun in DC. In order to do so, he had to register it; however, DC allowed so few registrations that the laws essentially operated as a handgun ban.

Heller didn't say "registration is unconstitutional, therefore the requirement to register the firearm is invalid." That argument would not have worked, and his lawyers knew it. From the syllabus of Heller:

Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement. Assuming he is not disqualified from exercising Second Amendment rights, the District must permit Heller to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home.


The appeals court also was very clear on this point:
Essentially, the appellants claim a right to possess what they describe as “functional firearms,” by which they mean ones that could be “readily accessible to be used effectively when necessary” for self-defense in the home. They are not asserting a right to carry such weapons outside their homes. Nor are they challenging the District’s authority per se to require the registration of firearms....

Reasonable restrictions also might be thought consistent with a “well regulated Militia.” The registration of firearms gives the government information as to how many people would be armed for militia service if called up.

https://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/E23F1D1340E39A99852574400045380B/$file/04-7041a.pdf

So: His legal team knew they wouldn't get anywhere by challenging the power of the government to mandate registration. That's why he sued for the right to register, and thus legally possess, new handguns.



lol

The majority opinion in Heller made it very clear that governments can regulate firearms, including registration:

Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.

So again... Mandatory registration itself is fine. A registration process only infringes IF it actually bars legitimate residents from owning certain classes of firearms, such as handguns or rifles (e.g. DC essentially refusing to register any handguns).

Screeching "it's unconstitutional because I say it's unconstitutional!" is meaningless, and shows that you do not understand the basic functions and concepts of rights, Constitutional law and registration, let alone the actual history and jurisprudence relevant to the determination of the constitutionality of said laws. Maybe you ought to, y'know, actually read up on a few things before continuing with that baseless line of argument. Just a thought.
Registration violates the tenth amendment
 
Among other things gun registration will not happen. And I will explain why.

Take a scenario you have a person with a gun and the government says register it and he registers. Should it get stolen he has the duty to report it to the police in a timely fashion lest he be suspected for any crime it should be involved in. So why would he register it? It's a lose-lose situation for him.

This sort of ties into universal background checks as well. The idea as I understand it, is to perform a background check on a person to person sale. if person A wants to sell his gun to person B all he does is trade the gun for money and he can do that anyway there's no way the government would know about it. Requiring person A to do a background check for most certainly a fee, wait for info to come back from the government which takes weeks sometimes months, to sell the gun to person B. If by some magical feet there is a registration that is functional, person A would just sell it to a person B and report it stolen to save himself the trouble the cost and the time.

These are practical reasons why these things aren't common sense.

Your thoughts?

Too bad. If gun registration is the law, then the gun owner is responsible to follow the law. If Universal Background checks is the law, then the gun proprietor is responsible to follow the law. If he doesn't, shut his business down.
 
Too bad. If gun registration is the law, then the gun owner is responsible to follow the law.
I don't think you understand the argument here. Only idiots are going to. I will suffer no consequences if I don't register my gun, so why on Earth would I?

If Universal Background checks is the law, then the gun proprietor is responsible to follow the law. If he doesn't, shut his business down.
Everybody makes the same assumption. What if the seller isn't a proprietor? It's just some schmo that sold his gun.
 
I don't think you understand the argument here. Only idiots are going to. I will suffer no consequences if I don't register my gun, so why on Earth would I?


Everybody makes the same assumption. What if the seller isn't a proprietor? It's just some schmo that sold his gun.

If Registration and Universal Background checks are the law, then you will suffer consequences if you break either of those laws.
 
Well you have to catch me and how are you going to enforce it with psychics?

That's true of any law. If I shoplift and don't get caught, I still committed a crime.
 
Well you can get caught in camera shoplifting.

The same can happen if a vendor doesn't register a gun sale, and the camera captures the neglect. As a matter-of-fact, it could be much easier to police, if guns were coded by origin. There are any number of controls that could be put into place. FBI geeks could probably thwart a large number of crimes by tracking gun databases. Part of the database would also be the entire Background Check.
 
Nonsense!

Have you read the Lopez decision? I suspect not. Tell us how forcing people to register firearms they have owned for years, comes within the commerce clause after Lopez. Or come up with another part of Article One, Section 8 which grants the federal government such power. I bet you cannot.
 
The same can happen if a vendor doesn't register a gun sale, and the camera captures the neglect. As a matter-of-fact, it could be much easier to police, if guns were coded by origin. There are any number of controls that could be put into place. FBI geeks could probably thwart a large number of crimes by tracking gun databases. Part of the database would also be the entire Background Check.


Failing to register a gun harms no one. Its a bogus crime created by assholes who are trying to both pander to the slow witted and harass gun owners.
 
Failing to register a gun harms no one. Its a bogus crime created by assholes who are trying to both pander to the slow witted and harass gun owners.

Nothing but a deflection...
 
Nothing but a deflection...

How is anyone harmed by someone failing to register a gun if such a law is passed-when they have harmed no one for all the time prior in which the gun was not registered?
 
Have you read the Lopez decision? I suspect not. Tell us how forcing people to register firearms they have owned for years, comes within the commerce clause after Lopez. Or come up with another part of Article One, Section 8 which grants the federal government such power. I bet you cannot.

I don't care what kind of case you are citing. Citing the 10th Amendment is nonsense, and you know it.
 
How is anyone harmed by someone failing to register a gun if such a law is passed-when they have harmed no one for all the time prior in which the gun was not registered?

Deflection again... As a matter-of-fact, it could be much easier to police, if guns were coded by origin. There are any number of controls that could be put into place. FBI geeks could probably thwart a large number of crimes by tracking gun databases. Part of the database would also be the entire Background Check.
 
Deflection again... As a matter-of-fact, it could be much easier to police, if guns were coded by origin. There are any number of controls that could be put into place. FBI geeks could probably thwart a large number of crimes by tracking gun databases. Part of the database would also be the entire Background Check.
You are just listing the possible benefits of gun registration, but you did not answer Turtle's question. Who is harmed when a gun is not registered?
 
You are just listing the possible benefits of gun registration, but you did not answer Turtle's question. Who is harmed when a gun is not registered?

Sorry, but Turtle deflected, and didn't address the issue that I was discussing.
 
You are just listing the possible benefits of gun registration, but you did not answer Turtle's question. Who is harmed when a gun is not registered?

I am used to that. Gun banners often avoid questions that demonstrate how silly their arguments are
 
The same can happen if a vendor doesn't register a gun sale, and the camera captures the neglect.
if first they do it in front of a surveillance camera, and second if that vendor wants to get punished by making his surveillance footage available for the police.

you would have to do it in someone else's establishment or in front of a police car with the dash camera rolling nobody is that stupid.

If enforcement of this law requires the people breaking it to go to extremes to get caught it's unenforceable. Is there for voluntary

As a matter-of-fact, it could be much easier to police, if guns were coded by origin.
typically manufacturers of guns are not shy one bit about putting their name all over the gun. In fact some manufacturers actually patent the model, meaning you can simply look at the gun and if you know enough about them you can find the origin. That isn't going to do anything for you because if somebody bought it and it changed hands 16 times who are you going to know who had it?
There are any number of controls that could be put into place.
but there isn't really. How is the government going to control who sells what to whom? They seem to be complete flunkies it's figuring out who's selling pot to whom.

FBI geeks could probably thwart a large number of crimes by tracking gun databases.
the FBI couldn't pour water out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the heel. Further there's no way to database who owns what gun. In order to do that you have to have the people voluntarily offer up the information and they're not going to.
Part of the database would also be the entire Background Check.
that's if someone decides to do a background check. If someone is not an FFL dealer and sells a gun without doing a background check like people do all the time that unravels the entirety of your database.
 
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