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Thread: Minority Rights

  1. #81
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    Re: Minority Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by RaleBulgarian View Post
    So now you’re saying that police officers are agents of force against citizens? Your justifications just keep getting more and more absurd.
    Of course they are. All political systems are based on force. The police are the enforcers of the system. Sometimes enforcing the good, other times the bad. In really bad times, the military becomes the primary enforcer.

  2. #82
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    Re: Minority Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    Stay off the shrooms.
    Noticed this poped up to the top. Did anyone mention that you may protect yourself from an attacker with a knife or a whole plethora of other things. Is someone going to break into my home with a sniper rifle? Doubtful , chances are its' going to be a handgun. A sniper rifle would be way better since I would have the biggest advantage.
    Since you look at it from a tyrannical government view(your words not mine but...) wouldn't it be us poor old civilians hiding behind trees with sniper rifles?

  3. #83
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    Re: Minority Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    Of course they are. All political systems are based on force. The police are the enforcers of the system. Sometimes enforcing the good, other times the bad. In really bad times, the military becomes the primary enforcer.
    Wrong. Political systems are based on ideologies. Different ideologies view/use force in different ways and to different degrees.

    And your reference to policing clearly asserted that police are used against citizenry, as in (unlawful) police brutality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    Our government has often turned it's forces against the citizens of this country. In fact, it's done every day during police work. At the bottom of EVERY kind of government is force.
    And what is enforcing the “bad”?

    And when was the last time our military was “the primary enforcer”?
    “I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.”
    William Taylor, United States Ambassador to Ukraine
    https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...am-Taylor.html

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    Re: Minority Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by RaleBulgarian View Post
    Wrong. Political systems are based on ideologies. Different ideologies view/use force in different ways and to different degrees.

    And your reference to policing clearly asserted that police are used against citizenry, as in (unlawful) police brutality.


    And what is enforcing the “bad”?

    And when was the last time our military was “the primary enforcer”?
    No matter what the ideology, EVERY political system is founded on force. Just do some reading, you'll find it.

    And that force is sometimes used to enforce bad laws, and/or bad political decisions.

    Every time the National Guard has ever been called out to enforce martial law.

    And hey, it's not just me saying this; it's covered in the last 200 years of political science. PoliSc 101 actually.

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    Re: Minority Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by RaleBulgarian View Post
    Quoting the words of a dictator responsible for 10’s of millions of murders, as support for your POV, is ****ed up.
    So than you are saying it's a good thing if a dictator arms his military and disarms the citizenry? Waddy is right,especially if he means in both directions.

  6. #86
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    Re: Minority Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    No matter what the ideology, EVERY political system is founded on force. Just do some reading, you'll find it.
    I have, well before this conversation. You should do some reading of other than dictatorships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    And that force is sometimes used to enforce bad laws, and/or bad political decisions.
    That would be defined as unlawful, and abuse of authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy View Post
    Every time the National Guard has ever been called out to enforce martial law.
    Do you even know when the last martial law was declared in the United States? And as relates to enforcing law, you should familiarize yourself with the Posse Comitatus Act.
    “I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.”
    William Taylor, United States Ambassador to Ukraine
    https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...am-Taylor.html

  7. #87
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    Re: Minority Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by zsu2357 View Post
    So than you are saying it's a good thing if a dictator arms his military and disarms the citizenry? Waddy is right,especially if he means in both directions.
    You’re lost. Best for you to go back and get an understanding of the conversation.
    “I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.”
    William Taylor, United States Ambassador to Ukraine
    https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...am-Taylor.html

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    Re: Minority Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by RaleBulgarian View Post
    I have, well before this conversation. You should do some reading of other than dictatorships.


    That would be defined as unlawful, and abuse of authority.


    Do you even know when the last martial law was declared in the United States? And as relates to enforcing law, you should familiarize yourself with the Posse Comitatus Act.
    It's not just dictatorships; EVERY government on earth is based on the fundamental use of force. That is how laws are enforced; the threat of force. What eventually happens when you refuse to comply with the police? They will use force to make you comply. What happens if you refuse to pay your taxes; they can come and arrest you. Or take your property; by force if necessary. EVERY government on the planet is based on the use of force.

    And do they always enforce only good laws? Of course not; history shows us they can also enforce bad laws. Were Jim Crow laws enforced?

    And any time the National Guard is called out to maintain order; like Katrina, they will use force if necessary.

    If you would rather believe the state is based on some version of flower power to enforce it's wishes, then go ahead. But it just ain't so. As Mao said, "power comes from the barrel of a gun". True now and always.

  9. #89
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    Re: Minority Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael McMahon View Post
    Hi my name is Michael McMahon. A common argument against gun control is the threat of a tyrannical government. But is there any other defensive countermeasure?

    The problem with having freely available guns without any background check is that armed civilians cannot protect themselves against snipers. With any gun such as a handgun or a shotgun it's possible to ambush a person and attack from behind or shoot from a concealed position. Unless one intends to spend the day darting to cover around every corner with a binoculars I fail to see how they can defend themselves. We literally don't have eyes on the back of our heads to guard against any sneaky assassin.

    I was thinking one way to defend against a murderous government would be to use a military version of proportional representation. So, if a parliamentary party has 30% of the vote they'd have complete 30% control of the military. If another party has 60% of the vote they'd then be granted 60% command of the military with their own autonomous military bases and units. And so on. This would give minorities a better organisational and logistical capacity to deter or defect and thwart a tyranny.

    Obviously hate speech laws can be used to prevent any violent and extremist candidate or group from running for office to prevent them gaining military representation.

    What would you think of this idea?
    My thoughts on that idea is that it is absolutely nuts. The idea that all the citizens would be taken out by snipers is absurd if snipers were so efficient that's all there would be.

    the idea of having government in charge of whether or not we go against government seems pointless and overly complicated.

    The way it works now there are 50 million or more people armed to the teeth in the country. And because of that the government doesn't dare try anything lest they have a civil war.

  10. #90
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    Re: Minority Rights

    CLAX1911: "50 million or more people armed to the teeth in the country..."

    One interpretation of the Second Amendment views it more collectively: "The second model, the collective model, holds that the right to bear arms belongs to the people collectively rather than to individuals, under the belief that the right's only purpose is to enable states to maintain a militia".

    Even having a system where all guns must be kept at registered gun clubs and shooting ranges might be a small improvement. People wouldn't be able to carry weapons in the streets or have guns in their houses and therefore it would ensure that lone wolf terrorists and dangerous criminals would be unarmed. So if people wanted to rise up against a tyranny, they'd have to at least make the decision collectively as part of a gun club in order to acquire the weapons that have been securely stored there.

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