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Thread: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

  1. #181
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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    When you want to restrict guns in a manner you are describing, it's like saying other people's lives are more important than the gun owners' lives.

    What is the justification there?
    Ok, let me get something straight here. I don't want to restrict guns. I am not sure what I "am describing". I simply said I support the federalist position. If a state doesn't want people owning military grade full auto squad support light machine guns, than that's fair, in my opinion.

    I left NJ because of the authoritarian control exerted by the state over gun ownership.
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. - Milton

    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

  2. #182
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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Ok, let me get something straight here. I don't want to restrict guns. I am not sure what I "am describing". I simply said I support the federalist position. If a state doesn't want people owning military grade full auto squad support light machine guns, than that's fair, in my opinion.

    I left NJ because of the authoritarian control exerted by the state over gun ownership.
    Where do you draw the line at what is fair for a state to ban ownership of?
    Individuals can not be reasoned out of beliefs they were not reasoned into.

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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Unfortunately you and I have clearly seen that many people disagree with your comment on abortion.

    And I've been in many a discussion here before gay marriage was federally recognized and many people didnt agree there that there was no 'good faith argument' against it.
    Do you think I care if ne'er do well busy bodies disagree with me wanting folks -out- of people's private medical decisions?

    There is no good faith argument against gay marriage. None. Except a bunch of whining about how gay folks cohabitating with a government document somehow diluted the value of their own marriage. IF that's the case, perhaps they ought not be married.
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. - Milton

    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

  4. #184
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    I have a very good understanding of anti abortion pro birth folks. And those little catholic ladies ought to consider leaving that edifice of greed, rape, and molestation. It is, after all, the primary reason an anti abortion movement exists.

    I suspect they have this view since they want as many children in their talons as possible. Must be for the loving administrations of their priests, no doubt.
    I think you are going to deny that anyone-no matter what-can have an honest dislike of abortion. So its worthless pursuing this discussion any further. I support abortion being legal, safe, and as rare as possible. I support education to help ignorant people avoid pregnancies. But I also understand there are good faith arguments against abortion being legal.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I'm smart on the gun issue and what we need to do about it.

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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    Where do you draw the line at what is fair for a state to ban ownership of?
    Depends on the state, but I personally believe the line is drawn on fully automatic rifles or submachine guns, explosives, military apcs or fighting vehicles, any rocket propelled or missle launcher/mortar type weapons.

    Yes, I know, semi-auto can be fired very quickly; that's not the point. The point is, disarming the population with cops marching around with semi auto AR-15's is exceedingly uncomfortable, when the population is not armed with something of substance.

    I do not think the public should have access to some military grade weapons of war because the public at large is a pretty poor shepherd of its rights in general, since we continue to vote for people that take rights away.
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. - Milton

    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I think you are going to deny that anyone-no matter what-can have an honest dislike of abortion. So its worthless pursuing this discussion any further. I support abortion being legal, safe, and as rare as possible. I support education to help ignorant people avoid pregnancies. But I also understand there are good faith arguments against abortion being legal.
    I think there are good faith arguments against it being morally acceptable. I do not accept their arguments against legality. I have kids of my own. I wouldn't ever advocate my wife to get an abortion. I think on the whole, we agree. I want as few as possible - as safe as possible, with access for all.

    And you are correct; education and contraceptives are key. However, we have an arsonist, theocrat party in office that wants to remove sex ed and deny anyone condoms.
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. - Milton

    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

  7. #187
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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Depends on the state, but I personally believe the line is drawn on fully automatic rifles or submachine guns, explosives, military apcs or fighting vehicles, any rocket propelled or missle launcher/mortar type weapons.

    Yes, I know, semi-auto can be fired very quickly; that's not the point. The point is, disarming the population with cops marching around with semi auto AR-15's is exceedingly uncomfortable, when the population is not armed with something of substance.

    I do not think the public should have access to some military grade weapons of war because the public at large is a pretty poor shepherd of its rights in general, since we continue to vote for people that take rights away.
    The police have fully automatic weapons. Why shouldn't the populace be equally armed?

    What's a military grade weapon of war? A sniper rifle? An service issue handgun?
    Individuals can not be reasoned out of beliefs they were not reasoned into.

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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    I think there are good faith arguments against it being morally acceptable. I do not accept their arguments against legality. I have kids of my own. I wouldn't ever advocate my wife to get an abortion. I think on the whole, we agree. I want as few as possible - as safe as possible, with access for all.

    And you are correct; education and contraceptives are key. However, we have an arsonist, theocrat party in office that wants to remove sex ed and deny anyone condoms.
    credible proof of this is required
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I'm smart on the gun issue and what we need to do about it.

  9. #189
    Professor Obscurity's Avatar
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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    The police have fully automatic weapons. Why shouldn't the populace be equally armed?

    What's a military grade weapon of war? A sniper rifle? An service issue handgun?
    I'm not playing this game with you. How about you explain it?

    At what stage do we draw the line? Nuclear weapons? How about dirty bombs? Thermobaric warheads?

    You tell me.
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. - Milton

    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

  10. #190
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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    I'm not playing this game with you. How about you explain it?
    Didn't you just say that you felt that restricting semiautomatic rifles was wrong because the police have them? How would that logic not extend to everything the police have?


    At what stage do we draw the line? Nuclear weapons? How about dirty bombs? Thermobaric warheads?

    You tell me.
    Currently that's under Heller and Miller: firearms in common use for lawful purposes or having a reasonable relationship to the preservation and efficiency of a well-regulated militia. McDonald extends those protections to the states. Given that machine guns, suppressors, armored cars and rocket launchers are all legal to own at the federal level, I can't see where any state gets the authority to further restrict them.
    Individuals can not be reasoned out of beliefs they were not reasoned into.

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