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Thread: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

  1. #161
    Sage

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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Geez dude, the constituents in some states don't want people owning M60 machine guns.
    Constituents in some states didn't want gays to get married, or women to have abortions. Sometimes what the masses want doesn't matter when it comes to rights.
    Individuals can not be reasoned out of beliefs they were not reasoned into.

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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by noonereal View Post
    So the muggers did not have guns.... LOL

    Kinda shoots the argument that all the criminal can get guns, even when they are all outlawed.

    OH, and I need a link to your shooting story.

    I couldn't care less if you want me to do that-not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I'm smart on the gun issue and what we need to do about it.

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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    Constituents in some states didn't want gays to get married, or women to have abortions. Sometimes what the masses want doesn't matter when it comes to rights.
    Those folks ought to mind their business, since they are infringing on the rights of others.

    No one can tell me what they have lost due to gay marriage or abortion.

    Can you?
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. - Milton

    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

  4. #164
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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    The Constitution only grants powers to the federal government. There's a difference between authority to enforce a law and responsibility to enforce a law. Were the police officers in Castle Rock held accountable for failing to effectively enforce a legal restraining order? They had the authority to do so, to maintain 100% surveillance of Gonzales to arrest the perp when he violated the terms of the restraining order. They failed to do so. They were found to not be responsible for failing to exercise that authority.
    If authority for states to govern/police doesn’t come from the Constitution, where do they get their authority from?

    You’re misunderstanding the decision, again. The pd wasn’t held liable because they were not required to do anything unless the order was violated. Ridiculous, but fact according to SCOTUS. As a separate matter, there was no comment regarding the pd’s responsibility to protect citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    Yes.
    Ok. What was your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    Do you accept that someone who is a danger to himself or others is still a danger without guns?

    Can they State ignore any other rights if the person is deemed to be a danger to themselves or others under "14th Amendment - “nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within it's jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
    Citizens are entitled to be protected from others who may harm them."

    Or is the power of the State to protect its citizens limited to red flag laws which are limited to guns?
    Questions for the courts to work out.

  5. #165
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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Those folks ought to mind their business, since they are infringing on the rights of others.

    No one can tell me what they have lost due to gay marriage or abortion.

    Can you?
    I didn't say I supported those positions, and no, I can't tell you what they've lost. I do appreciate the point about people minding their own business infringing upon the rights of others.
    Individuals can not be reasoned out of beliefs they were not reasoned into.

  6. #166
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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by RaleBulgarian View Post
    Strict Constitutionalist, huh?

    14th Amendment - “nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within it's jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
    Citizens are entitled to be protected from others who may harm them.
    The president is a special case, and you know it. Quit trying to be a Supreme Court justice. The Congress and the Courts will work out Donald’s malfeasance, if any.
    “Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” — Sir Winston Churchill

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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Those folks ought to mind their business, since they are infringing on the rights of others.

    No one can tell me what they have lost due to gay marriage or abortion.

    Can you?
    nothing-I support both though some make a good faith argument that abortion terminates a human life.

    how does someone owning a gun or using it lawfully harm you? it doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I'm smart on the gun issue and what we need to do about it.

  8. #168
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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    nothing-I support both though some make a good faith argument that abortion terminates a human life.

    how does someone owning a gun or using it lawfully harm you? it doesn't.
    It doesn't. Never said it does.
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. - Milton

    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    It doesn't. Never said it does.
    so you weren't trying to compare those who want to ban guns with those who want to ban abortion or gay rights
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Yeah; a shotgun IS a rifle; it uses a different load.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You know that Reagan signed the Brady Bill - right?
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I'm smart on the gun issue and what we need to do about it.

  10. #170
    Sage

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    Re: Gun-seizure laws grow in popularity since Parkland shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by RaleBulgarian View Post
    If authority for states to govern/police doesn’t come from the Constitution, where do they get their authority from?
    State constitutions. City laws.

    You’re misunderstanding the decision, again. The pd wasn’t held liable because they were not required to do anything unless the order was violated. Ridiculous, but fact according to SCOTUS. As a separate matter, there was no comment regarding the pd’s responsibility to protect citizens.
    Red flag laws are preemptive on the possibility that someone might commit a crime.

    Let's get back to your 14th Amendment claim:

    "The 7th Circuit Court's decision to uphold the District Court's dismissal in summary judgment was affirmed. A state or county agency does not have an obligation under the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment to prevent child abuse when the child is 1) in parental, not agency custody, and 2) the state did not create the danger of abuse or increase the child's vulnerability to abuse. Failure to prevent child abuse by a custodial parent does not violate the child's right to liberty for the purposes of the 14th Amendment.
    DeShaney v. Winnebago County, 489 U.S. 189 (1989), was a case decided by the Supreme Court of the United States on February 22, 1989. The court held that a state government agency's failure to prevent child abuse by a custodial parent does not violate the child's right to liberty for the purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution."

    Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981) is an oft-quoted[2] District of Columbia Court of Appeals case that held that the police do not owe a specific duty to provide police services to citizens based on the public duty doctrine


    Ok. What was your point?
    That the police cannot be held liable to failure to protect anyone.


    What's your opinion? You seem to feel that guns can be confiscated if the person has been deemed a danger to himself others. Given that other means of harm to self or others exist, should they also be covered in a red flag law?

    Questions for the courts to work out.
    Individuals can not be reasoned out of beliefs they were not reasoned into.

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