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To Those Who Don't Live In The USA, Stop Criticizing Our Gun Rights

flogger said:
Not so much gun rights as gun obsession more like. They are revered like religious artifacts over there however much suffering and collateral damage they cause and that is a lethal mindset well worthy of criticism :(
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Don't know many people that build little shrines around their gun and worship it. You really DO have a distorted view of America, don't you?
 
flogger said:
As a Falklands war veteran with two tours of Northern Ireland probably a lot more than you :wink:
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Not exactly a home defense situation, is it? Guess that makes England an undeveloped country, by your own argument!
 
flogger said:
Not that it will make the slightest difference :roll:

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In this case, no. It makes no difference at all. You are cherry picking. You are only looking at gun deaths, not whether it was a murder, or any other kind of homicide suicide. You are not showing how many of those deaths are justified either.
 
Crusader13 said:
I'm not American and this was my first thought as well. Americans telling the rest of the world to "mind ya'll business" is probably the most ironic thing ever.

Whether you like it or not, every country in the world is affected in some way by what happens in the US. That can be both a very good thing or a very bad thing. We would like to ensure it is the former.

FYI, I'm conservative and I have no problem with gun ownership (with reasonable restrictions of course), but this is one area of politics I am very centre on. Virtually every free country in the world lets its citizens own guns and they seem to be doing it without a fraction of the problems the US has. This is an area where more and more debates are needed to find a fitting solution that lets Americans own their guns as per the Constitution while letting the rest of the people own their life, also as per the Constitution.
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The rest of the world is not governed by the Constitution of the United States of America.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Doesn't mean you saw action.
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Quite true. He could've been a cook behind the lines for all we know. In any case, since he claimed that guns indicate an undeveloped and barbarous nation, he is just showing England to be an undeveloped and barbarous nation.
 
Maccabee said:
Again, provide evidence that countries like the UK lowered their gun death rate. Every country, that I've seen, that has a low gun death and strict gun control already had a low gun death rate before the strict measures were implemented and the effect was either insignificant or in some cases had the reverse effect. Why should the US implement strict gun control when there is no evidence that it reduces gun death rates?
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Except for the fact you are over 40 times less likely to be shot dead in the UK you mean?
 
Into the Night said:
Don't know many people that build little shrines around their gun and worship it. You really DO have a distorted view of America, don't you?
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Not really given I once lived there for two years and been a member of this place for many more
 
Into the Night said:
Not exactly a home defense situation, is it? Guess that makes England an undeveloped country, by your own argument!
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Did you know just having a gun in your home means you and yours are seven times more likely to be killed as a consequence than you are of killing any intruder ?
 
flogger said:
Did you know just having a gun in your home means you and yours are seven times more likely to be killed as a consequence than you are of killing any intruder ?
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which is a stupid argument because most of the time, criminal attacks are deterred without the intended victim killing the attacker.
 
flogger said:
Did you know just having a gun in your home means you and yours are seven times more likely to be killed as a consequence than you are of killing any intruder ?
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Did you know that living alone or renting your home were both found to have much higher risk factors for homicide in the home than having a gun in the home was? Or that having a long gun in the home was actually found to be less risky than no gun at all? See table 3. If you look at Table 4 you can understand why Kellermann didn't want to even include alcohol as a risk factor for homicide in the home.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506
 
Rucker61 said:
Did you know that living alone or renting your home were both found to have much higher risk factors for homicide in the home than having a gun in the home was? Or that having a long gun in the home was actually found to be less risky than no gun at all? See table 3. If you look at Table 4 you can understand why Kellermann didn't want to even include alcohol as a risk factor for homicide in the home.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506
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Did you know that homicide in the home in the US is some 11 times that of the UK ? Hmmm .... what alternative factor could be the cause of that I wonder ?
 
flogger said:
Did you know that homicide in the home in the US is some 11 times that of the UK ? Hmmm .... what alternative factor could be the cause of that I wonder ?
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Well, in the US the largest factor is drinking, and the behaviors that accompany drinking. Next would fight household member uses drugs, then fighting in the home/home rented (tie), then living alone, then handguns in the home, then household member arrested. Note that the 2.7 risk factor for guns in the home is barely above the minimum to qualify as a risk factor.

Before the UK passed its draconian laws in 1996, the US to UK homicide rate was about 4:1. Why is it still 4:1?
 
flogger said:
Yes I have on a number of occasions
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Well you don't know much about criminals in the USA and whether or not they're good shots. From time to time you will find criminals who are good with firearms but the vast majority of them are lousy shots.
 
Rucker61 said:
Well, in the US the largest factor is drinking, and the behaviors that accompany drinking. Next would fight household member uses drugs, then fighting in the home/home rented (tie), then living alone, then handguns in the home, then household member arrested. Note that the 2.7 risk factor for guns in the home is barely above the minimum to qualify as a risk factor.

Before the UK passed its draconian laws in 1996, the US to UK homicide rate was about 4:1. Why is it still 4:1?
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Answer my question ? Why is homicide in the home in the US some 11 times that of the UK despite us having the same factors you have outlined (indeed some would say ours are worse) ?
 
Into the Night said:
I do. Gangsters tend to be lousy shots and hit innocent bystanders.
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Nevertheless most gun deaths in the USA other than suicides are gang members being killed by other gang members, not innocent bystanders.
 
flogger said:
Answer my question. Why is homicide in the home some in the US some 11 times that of the UK despite us having the same factors you have outlined (indeed some would say ours are worse) ?
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I guess I have to go with the findings in the study as to the causes of homicide in the home in the US; I've seen no such studies for the UK. Do you have any?
 
DebateChallenge said:
Well you don't know much about criminals in the USA and whether or not they're good shots. From time to time you will find criminals who are good with firearms but the vast majority of them are lousy shots.
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Pure Hollywood indocrinated baloney :roll:
 
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Rucker61 said:
I guess I have to go with the findings in the study as to the causes of homicide in the home in the US; I've seen no such studies for the UK. Do you have any?
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No just the statistical comparison. Most homicides in the home in the US involve the use of a firearm whereas almost none in the UK do
 
flogger said:
Prove it ?
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demanding I prove something that is obvious and known to everyone on this board shows you are not interested in honest conversation. Even the Obama DOJ noted thousands of Defensive gun uses a month
 
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