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Criminals don't shop at gun stores

zsu2357 said:
So have very,very many people.

You are a bastion of logic with no end. So let me see if I got this. If I bought a firearm(at a gun shop)25 years ago and sold it 10 years later (private party sales were legal in OR. until recently) and then that person owned it 10 years and the next person owned it 5 years then went wacko and pulled a Vegas or something does that mean we're all guilty? Gun stores =bad?
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He wants to ban all guns, so yes.

There is zero reason to engage with this person.
 
zsu2357 said:
So have very,very many people....
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YES !!!


Far, far, far, far, far....far, far, far too many people have.


...if I bought a firearm(at a gun shop)25 years ago and sold it 10 years later (private party sales were legal in OR. until recently) and then that person owned it 10 years and the next person owned it 5 years then went wacko and pulled a Vegas or something does that mean we're all guilty? Gun stores =bad?
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No, again you're using a straw-man argument

I'm not saying you're guilty for a crime that someone who bought a gun from you committed

The fact remains that guns (pretty much all of them) were legally owned at one point


Ultimately illegally acquired guns come from legal sources


So banning the legal purchase of guns will ultimately ban the illegal purchase of guns.

This happens as guns are removed from society. Law abiding gun owners will hand them in for destruction...non-law abiding gun owners will have them seized as they are caught and arrested.


Eventually there will be almost no guns in America.


Critics will say that this period will take too long and some people will be killed who would otherwise have been saved if only they'd had a gun.

In answer to this, I say that 40,000 deaths through firearms is a figure far in excess of any number the gun lovers could conjure.
 
Rich2018 said:
Oh yes...another standard gun lover's response.

People are killed by cars, should we ban cars?

People can be killed by kitchen knives and screwdrivers...should we make people tighten screws with their thumbnails ?

Should we ban swimming pools ?



And I'll give you the standard answer - no we shouldn't ban cars and swimming pools, though we should make them as safe as possible.

Guns are designed to kill. How about if we make them safe by making it so they can't fire a bullet ? Would that satisfy you ?



(it's called de-activation in case you didn't know).
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That is one of the most trite, and silliest statements I have heard in a while.

Of course guns are designed to kill.....whats the point of having one that will not kill when you need it to kill?
 
Bum said:
That is one of the most trite, and silliest statements I have heard in a while....
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Really

What do you suppose guns are designed to do ?

Look pretty when mounted on the wall ?

I'll go with that...make all guns inert and mount them in glass cases.


...of course guns are designed to kill.....whats the point of having one that will not kill when you need it to kill?
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Ornamental value ?

Why should any civilized society allow its members to buy an item whose purpose is to kill ?

Think about it...if you buy something that's designed to kill, what are you (society) going to do with it ?


And you wonder why the USA has off the scale gun homicides ???
 
Rich2018 said:
Really

What do you suppose guns are designed to do ?

Look pretty when mounted on the wall ?

I'll go with that...make all guns inert and mount them in glass cases.




Ornamental value ?

Why should any civilized society allow its members to buy an item whose purpose is to kill ?

Think about it...if you buy something that's designed to kill, what are you (society) going to do with it ?


And you wonder why the USA has off the scale gun homicides ???
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How perfectly naïve....intentionally so?

You seem to think if guns did not exist, violent crime would magically vanish?

Civilized society indeed; its not the civilized people that concern me, its the people that chose to violate civilized people.....do you really believe that we live in some rainbow filled loving utopia where we all hold hands and sing "we shall overcome"?

People out there wish to kill, rape, rob, etc......Now, you are free to live a life without owning a firearm if you so choose....but the Second amendment and the right to self defense does not end where your fears and fantasies begin.
 
All these anti-gunners complaining about firearms and I'm over here with another tab open trying to decide between another revolver or a Sig p320c.
 
Rich2018 said:
Why is appealing to emotions, fallacious ?


Isn't the whole pro-gun, anti gun control argument emotional ?
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Look it up. Kinda like trying to when an argument by say "but think of all the starving children in Africa". I think we all understand the difficulties furloughed government workers are facing, but there plight is not a legitimate argument towards the conflict between Trump and Chuckie-Nan.
 
Rich2018 said:
Where did I suggest gun stores have any criminal culpability ?


The point is that gun stores sell guns legally...

I'd say almost all guns were legally owned and purchased...originally.
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Post #161. Why mention gun stores if you don't believe they are culpable?
 
Bum said:
...you seem to think if guns did not exist, violent crime would magically vanish?
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No and neither would GUN crime "magically vanish"

But it sure would be significantly reduced.

Look at British gun crime statistics...and the UK is in many places a more violent place than the USA


...civilized society indeed; its not the civilized people that concern me, its the people that chose to violate civilized people.....
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Me too, specifically those who violate them by shooting holes in them.

You can't stop people wanting to kill, you can however reduce their ability to. By banning guns.



...do you really believe that we live in some rainbow filled loving utopia where we all hold hands and sing "we shall overcome"?
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Clearly you do

Clearly you think that there is no gun problem in the USA...that 10,000+ gun homicides per year is not a problem...that mass shootings running at almost one per DAY is not a problem.

Today is January 21st: Mass shootings so far this year: EIGHTEEN


https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting




...people out there wish to kill, rape, rob, etc......Now, you are free to live a life without owning a firearm if you so choose....but the Second amendment and the right to self defense does not end where your fears and fantasies begin.
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Excuse # 2

We need guns for self defense.
 
*snip

Rich2018 said:
No and neither would GUN crime "magically vanish"


.
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Exactly...….because criminals will always get guns regardless of laws or bans.
 
=Rich2018;1069567815]Criminals don't get guns at gun stores? Stephen Paddock did.
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THIS is what you said above.. At time of purchase he had no criminal record that raised any flags. YOU imply that just buying at a gun store makes you a criminal.

Originally Posted by zsu2357
So have very,very many people....
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There should be tons of criminals out there by your standard(or what you consider). Stop looking for the Boogeymen.
 
=Rich2018;1069573184]Why is appealing to emotions, fallacious ?
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Because you guys only seem to see guns as the big bad boogeyman. As you said in post# 171 there are cars and knives ,swimming pools and a whole plethora of poisons but you have someone shoot up a classroom and it's days on end of the "babies" and if it "just saves one child's life it's worth it" or just one weekend in Chicago which you never hear much about on the MSM,and it go's on and on. What about some of these other causes? You would seem all that can be done is slap on a warning label and caution label and call it a day. Where's the uproar on those? After all if it "just saves one child's life" or is it not worth it?

Isn't the whole pro-gun, anti gun control argument emotional ?
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It's really the gun control side that gets emotional trying to shove an agenda. You should be careful what you wish for because you may not like it.
 
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Bum said:
*snip



Exactly...….because criminals will always get guns regardless of laws or bans.
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do you actually believe that ardent gun banners are motivated by disarming criminals?
 
Wayne Jr said:
All these anti-gunners complaining about firearms and I'm over here with another tab open trying to decide between another revolver or a Sig p320c.
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You go guy. Make America great. Buy more guns to stimulate the economy and increase security for all Americans.
 
TurtleDude said:
do you actually believe that ardent gun banners are motivated by disarming criminals?
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Not even remotely; they can justify anything in thier minds......the feeling of impotence must drive them absolutely insane preaching "ban guns", knowing it will never happen and being surrounded by citizens that are armed.

Thier wishing it does not affect me or mine in the slightest; life goes on.
 
And psychopaths pass background checks...
 
ryzorsden said:
And psychopaths pass background checks...
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and the truly ignorant can vote

and the totally unprepared can have children

your point?
 
TurtleDude said:
and the truly ignorant can vote

and the totally unprepared can have children

your point?
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The point is you and your family are only allowed to be as safe as ryzorsden permits and only in the way he permits. Anything else is not needed
 
DebateChallenge said:
So what's your alternate, to scream for help?
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You know what, for some reason I've yet to find myself in a position where a gun would have been useful let alone needed.


But if you really thin you're about to be invaded by Ninjas hell bent on killing you, then get a nice big baseball bat. Or if you really must, the kind of shotgun that even the strict UK gun laws allow.
 
Rich2018 said:
You know what, for some reason I've yet to find myself in a position where a gun would have been useful let alone needed.
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Why do you think this is an important data point? Many people who have found themselves in a position where a gun would be useful aren't around to talk about that need. With regards to your experience, have you ever been raped? If not, does that mean that rape isn't any issue?

But if you really thin you're about to be invaded by Ninjas hell bent on killing you, then get a nice big baseball bat. Or if you really must, the kind of shotgun that even the strict UK gun laws allow.
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Or, any type of firearm allowed by law. I'll pick the most effective, thanks.
 
Rucker61 said:
Why do you think this is an important data point? Many people who have found themselves in a position where a gun would be useful aren't around to talk about that need. With regards to your experience, have you ever been raped? If not, does that mean that rape isn't any issue?
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Excuse # 2a

I dispute that guns are needed as much as the gun lobby says.

Guns are far more dangerous in the hands of assailants (including rapists)

Gun homcide levels prove that every year.

Florida just had another mass shooting...some kid killed 5 women in a bank. Tell me why did HE need a gun?
He needed it in order to kill multiple people.

Mass shootings are running at almost one per DAY this year....
Does that fact just not register with you ?

Or is it that your guns are just so much more important to you ?


...or, any type of firearm allowed by law. I'll pick the most effective, thanks.
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Specifically the most effective that the law allows.
 
Rich2018 said:
Excuse # 2a

I dispute that guns are needed as much as the gun lobby says.
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How much does the "gun lobby" say that they are "needed"?

Guns are far more dangerous in the hands of assailants (including rapists)

Gun homcide levels prove that every year.
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What is the best way to defend one self against an armed assailant (including rapists)? How does a 100 pound woman defend herself against a 200 pound assailant (including rapists) if she has no gun?

Florida just had another mass shooting...some kid killed 5 women in a bank. Tell me why did HE need a gun?
He needed it in order to kill multiple people.

Mass shootings are running at almost one per DAY this year....
Does that fact just not register with you ?

Or is it that your guns are just so much more important to you ?
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My gun rights, like all my rights, are just that important to me.

Specifically the most effective that the law allows.
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That also is true. I want to be better armed and prepared than any possible assailant.

If you are truly so afraid of armed citizens, Go Back To England. It's obvious that you really aren't that afraid or you wouldn't be in the US.
 
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