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How do we keep...

OldFatGuy said:
The fabulous fallback argument. How silly.

You see laws as a method of prevention. The rest of understand that criminal laws provide a framework and guidelines for punishment, and even if we only prevail against a portion of the predators it is better than none.
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Prevention laws

Traffic laws
TSA restrictions
Immigration laws

I could go on.....should we get rid of them?
 
vegas giants said:
I wonder how may cops were killed in all of the EU which is bigger than the US? Yeah......its guns
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Many more. Italy alone has suffered more law enforcement deaths than the US. Same as France, and every other EU nation on a per capita basis.

In the EU, both judges and prosecutors are common targets. Here when judges and prosecutors are targeted the public demands more immediate revenge. Bad for business.

John Dillinger, other than being a handy and convenient PR target for Hoover, for whom the Senate had already thwarted by denying funding, made himself a target after threatening both prosecutors and judges, their families, and killing a prosecutor. A little girl fetching a bucket of beer for her folks from the local bar dies in a gang war explosion, and Al Capone becomes a convenient Hoover target for more PR, despite that he was a hero to the people for feeding thousands more at his free soup kitchens than local government during the depression. "My god he didn't pay his taxes!" in an era when few paid the taxes, with no income.

All's OK, you will protect us all from true evil?

Next time some old woman gets her purse snatched, do tell us how you defended her. Show us proof of your deeds.

I can show you proof how a dull blade at the perp's scrotum will get him spilling beans about other criminals. "Oh not that! He has rights!"

By the time Bill Bratton was hired by the cross dresser, he had a taste for Armani suits. On a Boston PD salary? No, on the Boston PD pad.

Three young male college students and one female college student, home during a holiday break, sitting and talking in a city playground at 10PM are executed. The city reels. Those were good kids, honor students escaping the ghetto to do good with their minds. NYPD, after three days of intense investigation, turning on the heat in all directions, can't find a clue. Early on the morning of day 4, 3 perps are found gagged, beat up, really beat up, trussed up and bound, on a precinct stoop with written signed confessions. Placed there by gangbangers, who had acted at the behest of older gangster objecting to the heat. The perps have been told their families will suffer a far worse fate than they will if they don't confess all to the police and the courts. The NYPD announces after hard investigative work they have arrested parties of interest. The blood lust of the public and media frenzy is satiated. Within six months of being incarcerated for their crimes are dead. Violent victims of prison justice. One of the original parents of the original victims, a pastor at a major Harlem Church, during Sunday morning prayers sermonized how God created justice for the families who had suffered the losses of their dreams for their children, and smiled upon those parents with their other children. He had a huge smile on his face as he spoke to his parishioners. Justice, vengeance, peace. No prevention. The laws and the spirits are at rest.

Take your pandering word games somewhere else.
 
vegas giants said:
Prevention laws

Traffic laws
TSA restrictions
Immigration laws

I could go on.....should we get rid of them?
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Whatever makes you happy. You are damned good at begging the question.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Many more. Italy alone has suffered more law enforcement deaths than the US. Same as France, and every other EU nation on a per capita basis.

In the EU, both judges and prosecutors are common targets. Here when judges and prosecutors are targeted the public demands more immediate revenge. Bad for business.

John Dillinger, other than being a handy and convenient PR target for Hoover, for whom the Senate had already thwarted by denying funding, made himself a target after threatening both prosecutors and judges, their families, and killing a prosecutor. A little girl fetching a bucket of beer for her folks from the local bar dies in a gang war explosion, and Al Capone becomes a convenient Hoover target for more PR, despite that he was a hero to the people for feeding thousands more at his free soup kitchens than local government during the depression. "My god he didn't pay his taxes!" in an era when few paid the taxes, with no income.

All's OK, you will protect us all from true evil?

Next time some old woman gets her purse snatched, do tell us how you defended her. Show us proof of your deeds.

I can show you proof how a dull blade at the perp's scrotum will get him spilling beans about other criminals. "Oh not that! He has rights!"

By the time Bill Bratton was hired by the cross dresser, he had a taste for Armani suits. On a Boston PD salary? No, on the Boston PD pad.

Three young male college students and one female college student, home during a holiday break, sitting and talking in a city playground at 10PM are executed. The city reels. Those were good kids, honor students escaping the ghetto to do good with their minds. NYPD, after three days of intense investigation, turning on the heat in all directions, can't find a clue. Early on the morning of day 4, 3 perps are found gagged, beat up, really beat up, trussed up and bound, on a precinct stoop with written signed confessions. Placed there by gangbangers, who had acted at the behest of older gangster objecting to the heat. The perps have been told their families will suffer a far worse fate than they will if they don't confess all to the police and the courts. The NYPD announces after hard investigative work they have arrested parties of interest. The blood lust of the public and media frenzy is satiated. Within six months of being incarcerated for their crimes are dead. Violent victims of prison justice. One of the original parents of the original victims, a pastor at a major Harlem Church, during Sunday morning prayers sermonized how God created justice for the families who had suffered the losses of their dreams for their children, and smiled upon those parents with their other children. He had a huge smile on his face as he spoke to his parishioners. Justice, vengeance, peace. No prevention. The laws and the spirits are at rest.

Take your pandering word games somewhere else.
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Great. So you can show the evidence of that right now
 
Kal'Stang said:
The newest talking point of those that love gun control: Keep guns out of the wrong hands.

How do we keep guns out of the wrong hands? How exactly do you determine this? Since this is about keeping guns out of the wrong hands this requires that we identify the wrong hands before they have a chance to do harm. How is this determined?

Let me address a couple of the expected responses.

1: Keep guns away from the mentally ill: Ok. Agreed. However, it is already illegal for anyone deemed to have a mental illness to own a gun or to sell a gun to. There is also a process in which this is determined. So, this is already being done. What more can be done in this regard? Note: It HAS to be tailored to where it will not infringe on everyone else's Rights. You know, people that are not mentally ill...

2: Keep guns away from those that are criminal: This too is already done. Anyone that has been charged and convicted with a felony that merits at least 1 year in prison is barred from owning any guns. It is also illegal in pretty much every state to possess a gun while under investigation, have a restraining order due to domestic violence, and other situations. Note about this: The majority of crimes committed while in possession of a gun are crimes committed by people with rap sheets. How do you prevent these people from getting a hold of a gun when they are already legally barred from owning or even possessing a gun? UBC's? The federal government can't implement that, States can, but not the Federal Government as they do not have the power to regulate intrastate commerce. Plus people have a Right to Privacy. Add to this the fact that most people that illegally possess guns get those guns via theft or straw purchases (which are illegal already) or the black market...you're going to have your work cut out for you on this one. Even more so when 3D Printing advances enough to where people can print metal objects in their home. Which IS going to happen whether you think it will or not. History of technology shows us this.

Feel free to add to this. The end goal: Keep guns out of the wrong hands. How? What? Where? Why?
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So Steven Paddock SHOULD have been able to buy AR15s and all the guns he wanted... That's your argument.
 
jet57 said:
So Steven Paddock SHOULD have been able to buy AR15s and all the guns he wanted... That's your argument.
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Where did I mention Steven Paddock? Oh right...I didn't. :failpail: more? Probably not.
 
jet57 said:
So Steven Paddock SHOULD have been able to buy AR15s and all the guns he wanted... That's your argument.
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Up until he committed the mass shooting yes. At the time Paddock did not have a record and the way this country works is you're presumed innocent until proven guilty.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Up until he committed the mass shooting yes. At the time Paddock did not have a record and the way this country works is you're presumed innocent until proven guilty.
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jet doesn't believe anyone should have AR-15s. M1 Carbines are quite all right, though.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Up until he committed the mass shooting yes. At the time Paddock did not have a record and the way this country works is you're presumed innocent until proven guilty.
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Face Palm.jpg

It went right over your head.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Up until he committed the mass shooting yes. At the time Paddock did not have a record and the way this country works is you're presumed innocent until proven guilty.
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jet wanted to ban all semi auto rifles to "see if we can get a handle" on mass shootings. all murders with ALL rifles, make up less than 3% of the murders nationally. he also ignores the following reality

a man worth 10 million dollars and who has two planes and the ability to fly them could easily

1) fly to Mexico and buy all sorts of heavy duty weaponry-including a heavy machine gun or even a mini gun.
2) fly to other troubled areas in South America where soviet military weaponry can be had
3) fill one of his planes with fuel and fly it into the crowd at 200 MPH-the death toll would have been at last 8000 according to one report I saw
 
Rucker61 said:
jet doesn't believe anyone should have AR-15s. M1 Carbines are quite all right, though.
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hard to say since he once said "weapons of war should be banned, and the AR 15 is not but the MI carbine was issued to our military over 6 million times in WWII, Korea and yes Vietnam and was responsible for helping US and allied troops inflict thousands of casualties on Germans, Japanese, North Koreans, Chinese, Viet Cong and NVA soldiers.
 
jet57 said:
So Steven Paddock SHOULD have been able to buy AR15s and all the guns he wanted... That's your argument.
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the only way to have prevented that was completely banning and destroying every AR 15 in the USA and all the other rifles that function like them
 
TurtleDude said:
3) fill one of his planes with fuel and fly it into the crowd at 200 MPH-the death toll would have been at last 8000 according to one report I saw
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I've pointed that out in another post, that he could do a repeat of 9/11 what with him being a pilot and all. That has gone right over other people's heads.
 
DebateChallenge said:
I've pointed that out in another post, that he could do a repeat of 9/11 what with him being a pilot and all. That has gone right over other people's heads.
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someone claimed he couldn't do that because he didn't want to die. LOL.
 
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