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Thread: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297, *567*]

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    So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297, *567*]

    https://abcnews4.com/news/crime-news...-home-invasion

    A sad tragedy. This man was a member of one of those neighborhood chat groups on facebook I'm in. I've never met the man, but his facebook page is filled with right-wing propaganda and just one week before this happened shared a video of Archie Bunker railing on gun control. The details from the article are sparse, but from what I understand at least two men entered his home around 1 in the morning, and this guy tried to play Dirty Harry only to end up getting himself shot and killed. Police believe it was a random event. A couple of thugs were likely looking for a quick score. Trying to grab a laptop a cell phone some loose change laying around. They probably didn't even think the guy was home and would have easily left without incident had he not surprised them and confronted them. This guy was a military vet. He knew how to handle guns. He knew the layout of his home better than the intruders, yet he still lost the fight.

    It's obviously sad, but this is the reality you face when you decide you're going to protect your stuff. Obviously, we can't know everything that happened here, but if he stayed out of sight and just yelled at them to leave from another room they probably would have bolted once they realized someone was home. Anything he might have lost would have been covered by homeowners insurance. Instead, he tried to be a hero and lost his life.

    So to recap, the odds of having your home broken into are already insanely low. Even if your home is broken into, odds are very low you'll be home. Even if you're home your odds of even getting to your gun aren't good unless you keep it loaded and on your person at all times. If you do that though you're at risk of an accidental shooting that could result in the death of yourself or a loved one. And even if you just happen to be in the right place at the right time with your loaded gun ready to defend yourself you're still starting a shootout inside your home that you could easily lose no matter how good you think you are with your gun.

    Your best defense in a home invasion is not a gun. It's a deadbolt, a motion sensor light, a decent sized dog with a loud bark, and an understanding that unless you have specific enemies they are almost certainly not here to kill you.
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

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    Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    https://abcnews4.com/news/crime-news...-home-invasion

    A sad tragedy. This man was a member of one of those neighborhood chat groups on facebook I'm in. I've never met the man, but his facebook page is filled with right-wing propaganda and just one week before this happened shared a video of Archie Bunker railing on gun control. The details from the article are sparse, but from what I understand at least two men entered his home around 1 in the morning, and this guy tried to play Dirty Harry only to end up getting himself shot and killed. Police believe it was a random event. A couple of thugs were likely looking for a quick score. Trying to grab a laptop a cell phone some loose change laying around. They probably didn't even think the guy was home and would have easily left without incident had he not surprised them and confronted them. This guy was a military vet. He knew how to handle guns. He knew the layout of his home better than the intruders, yet he still lost the fight.

    It's obviously sad, but this is the reality you face when you decide you're going to protect your stuff. Obviously, we can't know everything that happened here, but if he stayed out of sight and just yelled at them to leave from another room they probably would have bolted once they realized someone was home. Anything he might have lost would have been covered by homeowners insurance. Instead, he tried to be a hero and lost his life.
    You realize this isn't how it happens every time, right? It's a single anecdote.


    So to recap, the odds of having your home broken into are already insanely low. Even if your home is broken into, odds are very low you'll be home.
    According to the DOJ report "Victimization During Household Burglary" there are 3.7 million burglaries each year with 1 million of them happening when someone is home.

    " In 7% of all household burglaries, a household member experienced some form of violent victimization". That's a far cry from insanely low odds.

    https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf

    Even if you're home your odds of even getting to your gun aren't good unless you keep it loaded and on your person at all times. If you do that though you're at risk of an accidental shooting that could result in the death of yourself or a loved one. And even if you just happen to be in the right place at the right time with your loaded gun ready to defend yourself you're still starting a shootout inside your home that you could easily lose no matter how good you think you are with your gun.
    You keep saying "odds are low" or "risk is high" with no data to back that up. That's a poor debate method.


    Your best defense in a home invasion is not a gun. It's a deadbolt, a motion sensor light, a decent sized dog with a loud bark, and an understanding that unless you have specific enemies they are almost certainly not here to kill you.
    That's a good plan, but you can't claim it's the "best defense" for every situation. I fully support a multi-layer defense plan which includes everything above plus living in a good neighborhood in a safe city.

    That doesn't mean that a gun will never be useful in self-defense.
    Individuals can not be reasoned out of beliefs they were not reasoned into.

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    Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

    You seem to be making many assumptions about the intentions of those who broke in. Multiple people breaking into a home in the middle of the night means they likely knew someone was home and brought backup just in case.

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    Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    You realize this isn't how it happens every time, right? It's a single anecdote.
    Right, and your odds of dying from a single round of Russian Roulette are only 1 out of 6, but I wouldn't recommend playing it if you don't have to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    According to the DOJ report "Victimization During Household Burglary," there are 3.7 million burglaries each year with 1 million of them happening when someone is home.
    There are over 300 million people in the united states. That puts your odds at about 1 in 300, and that's ignoring the reality that most of those burglaries happened because someone left a door unlocked, didn't have a dog, and didn't have a motion sensor light.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    " In 7% of all household burglaries, a household member experienced some form of violent victimization". That's a far cry from insanely low odds.
    It is when you acknowledge the reality that the 7% was almost exclusively made up of people who tried to defend their laptop.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    You keep saying "odds are low" or "risk is high" with no data to back that up. That's a poor debate method.
    You just gave me the data that supported what I said. That's an even worse debate method.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    That's a good plan, but you can't claim it's the "best defense" for every situation.
    Nope, just 99.999999% of them. So when you factor in the odds that keeping a loaded gun in your home at all times puts you at a risk for an accidental shooting it becomes quite clear that your odds are better without the gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucker61 View Post
    That doesn't mean that a gun will never be used in self-defense.
    Right, but it means that the odds of your gun being used in self-defense are smaller than the odds that it will be the thing that gets you killed. So if you want to increase your odds of survival don't keep a loaded gun in your house.
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

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    Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

    Actually, it really is nobody else’s business why I have guns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard the Duck View Post
    And it is none of your business why we want to take your guns.

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    Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nap View Post
    You seem to be making many assumptions about the intentions of those who broke in. Multiple people breaking into a home in the middle of the night means they likely knew someone was home and brought a backup just in case.
    Right. "backup just in case." Those are the key words here. They didn't come there to kill this guy. They came for his stuff. They brought a gun just in case the homeowner tried to play Dirty Harry. If he wouldn't have they would not have used their "backup."
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

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    Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Actually, it really is nobody else’s business why I have guns.
    What's the matter are you running out of good excuses for your bad choices?
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

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    Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    Right. "backup just in case." Those are the key words here. They didn't come there to kill this guy. They came for his stuff. They brought a gun just in case the homeowner tried to play Dirty Harry. If he wouldn't have they would not have used their "backup."
    How do you know they didn't intend to kill anyone inside? Would be nice if you could use your mind reading abilities for the greater good and join the police force.

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    Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    https://abcnews4.com/news/crime-news...-home-invasion

    A sad tragedy. This man was a member of one of those neighborhood chat groups on facebook I'm in. I've never met the man, but his facebook page is filled with right-wing propaganda and just one week before this happened shared a video of Archie Bunker railing on gun control. The details from the article are sparse, but from what I understand at least two men entered his home around 1 in the morning, and this guy tried to play Dirty Harry only to end up getting himself shot and killed. Police believe it was a random event. A couple of thugs were likely looking for a quick score. Trying to grab a laptop a cell phone some loose change laying around. They probably didn't even think the guy was home and would have easily left without incident had he not surprised them and confronted them. This guy was a military vet. He knew how to handle guns. He knew the layout of his home better than the intruders, yet he still lost the fight.

    It's obviously sad, but this is the reality you face when you decide you're going to protect your stuff. Obviously, we can't know everything that happened here, but if he stayed out of sight and just yelled at them to leave from another room they probably would have bolted once they realized someone was home. Anything he might have lost would have been covered by homeowners insurance. Instead, he tried to be a hero and lost his life.

    So to recap, the odds of having your home broken into are already insanely low. Even if your home is broken into, odds are very low you'll be home. Even if you're home your odds of even getting to your gun aren't good unless you keep it loaded and on your person at all times. If you do that though you're at risk of an accidental shooting that could result in the death of yourself or a loved one. And even if you just happen to be in the right place at the right time with your loaded gun ready to defend yourself you're still starting a shootout inside your home that you could easily lose no matter how good you think you are with your gun.

    Your best defense in a home invasion is not a gun. It's a deadbolt, a motion sensor light, a decent sized dog with a loud bark, and an understanding that unless you have specific enemies they are almost certainly not here to kill you.
    I have good locks, several good sized dogs, a security system with cameras and motion detection alarms and guns which I am highly qualified to use, my choice. Now if you want to rely on yelling at the Intruders then that is your choice. I will make my choices and you make yours, then we are both happy.

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