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Federal Court Upholds Decision to Block California’s Magazine Ban

TurtleDude said:
yeah and its liberals on this site who have made the following claims

1) Trump supports need to be implanted with "chips" so their whereabouts be tracked

2) the Fifth amendment shouldn't apply to Trump supporters and NRA members

for years left-wingers have tried to suppress the first amendment-such as shouting down conservative speakers on college campuses to gun banners trying to prevent the NRA from advocating people be armed for self defense. Most conservatives support individual rights rather than collectivism.
Click to expand...
I still maintain there is a very real difference between liberals and the rabid vapid empty headed mindless leftists...but your point is spot on.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Also no need for mag changes during practice
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I may or may not have a few 100 round drums...but I personally prefer 30 round mags for pretty much everything. 50 round mags are a bit ungainly and 100 round drum mags impact the weight, carry, balance, etc.

Fully automatic...thats another story.
 
VanceMack said:
I still maintain there is a very real difference between liberals and the rabid vapid empty headed mindless leftists...but your point is spot on.
Click to expand...

I accept your point. true leftwing liberals want to comfort the afflicted, most of the lefties these days merely want to afflict anyone who doesn't buy into their mindset
 
VanceMack said:
I may or may not have a few 100 round drums...but I personally prefer 30 round mags for pretty much everything. 50 round mags are a bit ungainly and 100 round drum mags impact the weight, carry, balance, etc.

Fully automatic...thats another story.
Click to expand...

I saw a guy using C mag in a three gun shoot. he got lucky, it didn't jam. My son uses the 60 round jobs-far easier to use and doesn't unbalance his armalite match gun
 
TurtleDude said:
its funny how many liberals call Trump a dictator and yet want to ban citizens from having guns
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One of the great ironies. "Trump is a dictator! A fascist! Hitler!"

Wait...theres more...

"The Cops are fascists...randomly and wantonly killing people. They cant be trusted!"

"BTW...turn in your guns..."

WTF do they think we are...Brits?
 
TurtleDude said:
I saw a guy using C mag in a three gun shoot. he got lucky, it didn't jam. My son uses the 60 round jobs-far easier to use and doesn't unbalance his armalite match gun
Click to expand...
In Semi automatic weapons, the reliability of use isnt great. James Holmes only got about a third of the way through his when his AR jammed and he had to switch to the shotgun. Considering how easy and fast it is to change mags in a combat scenario where you arent concerned about pocketing the P Mag...the 30 rounder makes more sense, especially to someone that isnt well practiced.

Some drums can run flawlessly...depending on the platform and shooter. Especially if you are willing to take the time, clean and service the magazines, maybe file down a few burrs on the feed lips, etc.
 
TurtleDude said:
its funny how many liberals call Trump a dictator and yet want to ban citizens from having guns
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Or want Trump to be in charge of their healthcare.
 
VanceMack said:
Interesting...because of Trump...what are you afraid of? What scenario do you see that might require you to use your firearms to protect yourself from the government?
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One in which a foreign power can control the US by manipulating our elections and control our President. Where the truth doesn't matter anymore.

We have a president where the NSA, the CIA, the DOJ, and the FBI who have all stated that Russia attacked our election system, they hacked us and tried to manipulate the election. And our very President. On television dismisses their evidence because the Russian leader "told me they didn't".

That's a scary thing. then add that you have a DOJ and an investigation into Russian interference.. and already.. not only do you have a bunch of indictments from a grand jury.. but you have a bunch of guilty pleas.

And what does our president call it? "a witch hunt".

Then you take our Presidents comments when it comes to taking away peoples firearms... When Pence qualified that firearms could be taken away.. "after due process"... Trump then stated "no.. I don't think we can wait for that".


History is filled with examples of these scenarios.. and they have not ended well when its come to freedom.

But the scariest thing about all of this.. is that the people.. the people that should be holding the President.. our government accountable? Not only are not holding our government accountable for their actions.. but applauding those actions.
 
jaeger19 said:
One in which a foreign power can control the US by manipulating our elections and control our President. Where the truth doesn't matter anymore.

We have a president where the NSA, the CIA, the DOJ, and the FBI who have all stated that Russia attacked our election system, they hacked us and tried to manipulate the election. And our very President. On television dismisses their evidence because the Russian leader "told me they didn't".

That's a scary thing. then add that you have a DOJ and an investigation into Russian interference.. and already.. not only do you have a bunch of indictments from a grand jury.. but you have a bunch of guilty pleas.

And what does our president call it? "a witch hunt".

Then you take our Presidents comments when it comes to taking away peoples firearms... When Pence qualified that firearms could be taken away.. "after due process"... Trump then stated "no.. I don't think we can wait for that".


History is filled with examples of these scenarios.. and they have not ended well when its come to freedom.

But the scariest thing about all of this.. is that the people.. the people that should be holding the President.. our government accountable? Not only are not holding our government accountable for their actions.. but applauding those actions.
Click to expand...
So...because the previous administration ignored the hacking (oh wait...wait...the previous administration ordered the intel services to stand down in their attempts to block Russia hacking efforts), and because this president made a few stupid comments...you are afraid that THIS president is going to...what again? Allow foreign forces into our country? Attack us? Turn over the keys to the country?

Seriously...what IS it you are afraid of?

And if you want someone held 'accountable'...then my dude...seriously...WHAT THE **** are you on about? Why arent you howling at the moon that Obama be hauled in and held accountable for failing to protect us? Why arent you shrieking about Clapper failing to do his job, or Brennan, or the heads of the FBI? Why is it that you have somehow completely ignored Jeh Johnson and the complete failure of Homeland Security?

Trump. You **** yourself over Trump. Trrrrrrrruuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!
 
VanceMack said:
So...because the previous administration ignored the hacking (oh wait...wait...the previous administration ordered the intel services to stand down in their attempts to block Russia hacking efforts), and because this president made a few stupid comments...you are afraid that THIS president is going to...what again? Allow foreign forces into our country? Attack us? Turn over the keys to the country?

Seriously...what IS it you are afraid of?

And if you want someone held 'accountable'...then my dude...seriously...WHAT THE **** are you on about? Why arent you howling at the moon that Obama be hauled in and held accountable for failing to protect us? Why arent you shrieking about Clapper failing to do his job, or Brennan, or the heads of the FBI? Why is it that you have somehow completely ignored Jeh Johnson and the complete failure of Homeland Security?

Trump. You **** yourself over Trump. Trrrrrrrruuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!
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Russia will hack the midterms and support candidates that will help Russian causes. Trump will deny it is happening.

And you support this
 
vegas giants said:
Russia will hack the midterms and support candidates that will help Russian causes. Trump will deny it is happening.

And you support this
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Oh I doubt it. The Obama administration, where ALL that **** happened...has been pretty much completely replaced.

But MAN I bet you hate that piece of **** Obama and his entire worthless administration of corrupt and inept ****ing clowns.

Right?
 
VanceMack said:
Oh I doubt it. The Obama administration, where ALL that **** happened...has been pretty much completely replaced.

But MAN I bet you hate that piece of **** Obama and his entire worthless administration of corrupt and inept ****ing clowns.

Right?
Click to expand...

Prove that they stood down. Trump is standing down RIGHT NOW
 
VanceMack said:
So...because the previous administration ignored the hacking (oh wait...wait...the previous administration ordered the intel services to stand down in their attempts to block Russia hacking efforts), and because this president made a few stupid comments...you are afraid that THIS president is going to...what again? Allow foreign forces into our country? Attack us? Turn over the keys to the country?

Seriously...what IS it you are afraid of?

And if you want someone held 'accountable'...then my dude...seriously...WHAT THE **** are you on about? Why arent you howling at the moon that Obama be hauled in and held accountable for failing to protect us? Why arent you shrieking about Clapper failing to do his job, or Brennan, or the heads of the FBI? Why is it that you have somehow completely ignored Jeh Johnson and the complete failure of Homeland Security?

Trump. You **** yourself over Trump. Trrrrrrrruuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

First. thank you for proving my points.

So.. I just pointed out that the CIA, NSA, FBI, have all confirmed the Russia has interfered with our election, have hacked us, and are continuing to do so. And I pointed out our President.. in front of the world.. denied what our own intelligence agencies because "putin says they didn't".

And what is your response? But but but ... what about OBAMA??? What about Hillary..... Obammmmmmmaaaa..... Hilllllarrrrrrrrryyy..

Why am I "not howling at the moon about Obama and Hillary. I would think that should be VERY evident. And frankly.. its your failure to understand why.. is why I worry about our country.

Let me explain:

OBama is not the president

Hillary is not president

Understand? The person that is in charge of protecting our voting system, of preventing our democracy from being corrupted by a foreign power.. is TRUMP. TRUMP is president.. and is in charge of that.. and he publicly supports Russia vs what our own intelligence agencies say.

Honestly.. I don't expect you to understand that vital difference. The difference between worrying about the actions of the people IN POWER in the government. And worrying about what a past president.. and a person that hasn;t been in government for years..does.

That's one of the things that worry me... you and a whole host of other people.. don't understand the importance of keeping the GOVERNMENT.. accountable.. the ACTUAL GOVERNMENT.

Trump has said publically.. that he disagrees that due process is necessary before taking away someones firearms. So.. I expect that if or maybe when, he supports such actions.... your response will be.... but but HILLLLLLARRRYYYYYY.
 
jaeger19 said:
First. thank you for proving my points.

So.. I just pointed out that the CIA, NSA, FBI, have all confirmed the Russia has interfered with our election, have hacked us, and are continuing to do so. And I pointed out our President.. in front of the world.. denied what our own intelligence agencies because "putin says they didn't".

And what is your response? But but but ... what about OBAMA??? What about Hillary..... Obammmmmmmaaaa..... Hilllllarrrrrrrrryyy..

Why am I "not howling at the moon about Obama and Hillary. I would think that should be VERY evident. And frankly.. its your failure to understand why.. is why I worry about our country.

Let me explain:

OBama is not the president

Hillary is not president

Understand? The person that is in charge of protecting our voting system, of preventing our democracy from being corrupted by a foreign power.. is TRUMP. TRUMP is president.. and is in charge of that.. and he publicly supports Russia vs what our own intelligence agencies say.

Honestly.. I don't expect you to understand that vital difference. The difference between worrying about the actions of the people IN POWER in the government. And worrying about what a past president.. and a person that hasn;t been in government for years..does.

That's one of the things that worry me... you and a whole host of other people.. don't understand the importance of keeping the GOVERNMENT.. accountable.. the ACTUAL GOVERNMENT.

Trump has said publically.. that he disagrees that due process is necessary before taking away someones firearms. So.. I expect that if or maybe when, he supports such actions.... your response will be.... but but HILLLLLLARRRYYYYYY.
Click to expand...

the stuff you are complaining about took place under OBAMA

Trump isn't perfect on gun issues -you want to argue Hillary would have been better?

You think Gorsuch and Kavanagh are worse on gun rights than the people Hillary wanted to appoint?
 
jaeger19 said:
First. thank you for proving my points.

So.. I just pointed out that the CIA, NSA, FBI, have all confirmed the Russia has interfered with our election, have hacked us, and are continuing to do so. And I pointed out our President.. in front of the world.. denied what our own intelligence agencies because "putin says they didn't".

And what is your response? But but but ... what about OBAMA??? What about Hillary..... Obammmmmmmaaaa..... Hilllllarrrrrrrrryyy..

Why am I "not howling at the moon about Obama and Hillary. I would think that should be VERY evident. And frankly.. its your failure to understand why.. is why I worry about our country.

Let me explain:

OBama is not the president

Hillary is not president

Understand? The person that is in charge of protecting our voting system, of preventing our democracy from being corrupted by a foreign power.. is TRUMP. TRUMP is president.. and is in charge of that.. and he publicly supports Russia vs what our own intelligence agencies say.

Honestly.. I don't expect you to understand that vital difference. The difference between worrying about the actions of the people IN POWER in the government. And worrying about what a past president.. and a person that hasn;t been in government for years..does.

That's one of the things that worry me... you and a whole host of other people.. don't understand the importance of keeping the GOVERNMENT.. accountable.. the ACTUAL GOVERNMENT.

Trump has said publically.. that he disagrees that due process is necessary before taking away someones firearms. So.. I expect that if or maybe when, he supports such actions.... your response will be.... but but HILLLLLLARRRYYYYYY.
Click to expand...
But all this **** you are pretending to be poutraged over DID happen under the watchful eyes of the previous administration. It wasnt TYrump0 that let whatver may or may not have happened happen...it was Obama. It wasnt Trump that ordered his intel teams to stand down and STOP intrusion protection...it was Obama. It wasnt Trumps inept piece of **** intel agencies that failed...it was Obamas. And By the way...they...like you...are the ones shrieing about TRUUUUUUMMMMMPPPPP!. you know...the ones that failed.

But AGAIN...you keep bleating on about your fear. What are you AFRAID of? Or are you just so weak minded that you will parrot anything some idiot leftist tells you? WHat are you afraid of? DO you think the Russians are going to walk donw your streets/ DO you think Russia is going to take over the US. FFS...its been 2 years...what has he done with Russia that has adversely impacted you, or the country? So

You know...if you had any integrity you would go back and look at the video of democrats over the last 8 years. You would see just how easily they played the mindless idiots with 'Russia'. You would see how they used Russia as an election narrative to their advantage in 2012 and how they completely flipped the script like the entire Obama administration didnt happen and started shrieking about RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!!! when? Thats right...as soon as their emails got exposed. They counted on people like you swallowing whatever they put in your mouth and completely ignoring the CONTENT of those emails. Now they use RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!!! to feed your inane fears and to divide the country. And make no mistake...I believe the Russians are doing the same thing...but the democrats are doing it better.

But that would require you to actually think for yourself and not just bleat on about some mindless rhetoric you have been spoonfed.
 
VanceMack said:
But all this **** you are pretending to be poutraged over DID happen under the watchful eyes of the previous administration. It wasnt TYrump0 that let whatver may or may not have happened happen...it was Obama. It wasnt Trump that ordered his intel teams to stand down and STOP intrusion protection...it was Obama. It wasnt Trumps inept piece of **** intel agencies that failed...it was Obamas. And By the way...they...like you...are the ones shrieing about TRUUUUUUMMMMMPPPPP!. you know...the ones that failed.

But AGAIN...you keep bleating on about your fear. What are you AFRAID of? Or are you just so weak minded that you will parrot anything some idiot leftist tells you? WHat are you afraid of? DO you think the Russians are going to walk donw your streets/ DO you think Russia is going to take over the US. FFS...its been 2 years...what has he done with Russia that has adversely impacted you, or the country? So

You know...if you had any integrity you would go back and look at the video of democrats over the last 8 years. You would see just how easily they played the mindless idiots with 'Russia'. You would see how they used Russia as an election narrative to their advantage in 2012 and how they completely flipped the script like the entire Obama administration didnt happen and started shrieking about RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!!! when? Thats right...as soon as their emails got exposed. They counted on people like you swallowing whatever they put in your mouth and completely ignoring the CONTENT of those emails. Now they use RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!!! to feed your inane fears and to divide the country. And make no mistake...I believe the Russians are doing the same thing...but the democrats are doing it better.

But that would require you to actually think for yourself and not just bleat on about some mindless rhetoric you have been spoonfed.
Click to expand...

Yep.. see you keep making my point. Let me say this again..

OBAMA IS NOT PRESIDENT. HILLARY IS NOT PRESIDENT

By the way..I didn;t vote for either of them. So I figure that's where your next diversion will try.

But AGAIN...you keep bleating on about your fear. What are you AFRAID of?
Click to expand...

Sir.. the only one that's "bleating" is you... BWWAHHH... OBAMAMMMMA BAWWWWW... HILLARY.

I understand that neither is president. And therefore.. in regards to my protection.. neither of them matter.

Now.. what do I FEAR? Okay. I fear that a foreign power is going to gain influence over the US government. Which is a legitimate fear when you consider Russia's efforts and CONTINUED efforts to undermine our elections and our democracy.

So what does that mean? Well.. Russia wants a weak US. One that's ineffective, it wants to disrupt long term and strong alliances.. (like NATO).. it wants to hurt the US economy. It wants to hurt the US credibility. It wants to hurt our democracy.

Hmmm.. lets see.. now what would I do if I were putin and could influence whats going on in the US? Wait.. how about have the us insult its long term allies so to distrust the NATO alliance that was started to stop soviet (Russian) aggression?
How about disrupt its economy by starting trade wars?
How about sowing distrust with other countries by going back on signed treaties. Telling the world that you cannot trust the US because it won't abide by its own agreements.
Get internal division within the country by promoting ethnic hatred and division.
Sow distrust of the media.. so anything that smacks of the actual truth.. is called "fake news".

Anything sound familiar? That's a good start in how to take down a foreign country from within.

Then the next phase would be to get more control of the government by putting in more puppets. then start by curtailing personal rights of the people. Making them less able to resist government intrusion. Start with people having to carry ID cards and to have to supply them to prove their citizenship. (you use the ethnic hatred and phobia as the impetus).
Start with firearms restrictions to disarm the populace, (of course you have to do it to "protect the people against... insert the ethnic group of choice)..
Curtail free speech. Anyone that speaks out against the government is being "disloyal".. and a "communist".. (in the name of patriotism of course).

And the best thing is.. the AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL HAVE LARGELY DONE IT TO THEMSELVES.

Cripes.. while they are taking our firearms, and trotting people that disagree with government out to Gitmo.. folks like yourself will by braying "obamaaaaa"..

(oh by the way.. I did not approve of Obama not being harder on Russia. So where you get this "if you look back". But of course.. you don't want to look forward. Because no matter what Russia is doing now.. it doesn't matter.. because Hee Haww... Obamahhhh).
 
jaeger19 said:
Yep.. see you keep making my point. Let me say this again..

OBAMA IS NOT PRESIDENT. HILLARY IS NOT PRESIDENT

By the way..I didn;t vote for either of them. So I figure that's where your next diversion will try.



Sir.. the only one that's "bleating" is you... BWWAHHH... OBAMAMMMMA BAWWWWW... HILLARY.

I understand that neither is president. And therefore.. in regards to my protection.. neither of them matter.

Now.. what do I FEAR? Okay. I fear that a foreign power is going to gain influence over the US government. Which is a legitimate fear when you consider Russia's efforts and CONTINUED efforts to undermine our elections and our democracy.

So what does that mean? Well.. Russia wants a weak US. One that's ineffective, it wants to disrupt long term and strong alliances.. (like NATO).. it wants to hurt the US economy. It wants to hurt the US credibility. It wants to hurt our democracy.

Hmmm.. lets see.. now what would I do if I were putin and could influence whats going on in the US? Wait.. how about have the us insult its long term allies so to distrust the NATO alliance that was started to stop soviet (Russian) aggression?
How about disrupt its economy by starting trade wars?
How about sowing distrust with other countries by going back on signed treaties. Telling the world that you cannot trust the US because it won't abide by its own agreements.
Get internal division within the country by promoting ethnic hatred and division.
Sow distrust of the media.. so anything that smacks of the actual truth.. is called "fake news".

Anything sound familiar? That's a good start in how to take down a foreign country from within.

Then the next phase would be to get more control of the government by putting in more puppets. then start by curtailing personal rights of the people. Making them less able to resist government intrusion. Start with people having to carry ID cards and to have to supply them to prove their citizenship. (you use the ethnic hatred and phobia as the impetus).
Start with firearms restrictions to disarm the populace, (of course you have to do it to "protect the people against... insert the ethnic group of choice)..
Curtail free speech. Anyone that speaks out against the government is being "disloyal".. and a "communist".. (in the name of patriotism of course).

And the best thing is.. the AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL HAVE LARGELY DONE IT TO THEMSELVES.

Cripes.. while they are taking our firearms, and trotting people that disagree with government out to Gitmo.. folks like yourself will by braying "obamaaaaa"..

(oh by the way.. I did not approve of Obama not being harder on Russia. So where you get this "if you look back". But of course.. you don't want to look forward. Because no matter what Russia is doing now.. it doesn't matter.. because Hee Haww... Obamahhhh).
Click to expand...

so tell me-who do you want picking the next justice for supreme court-Hillary or Trump?
 
jaeger19 said:
Yep.. see you keep making my point. Let me say this again..

OBAMA IS NOT PRESIDENT. HILLARY IS NOT PRESIDENT

By the way..I didn;t vote for either of them. So I figure that's where your next diversion will try.



Sir.. the only one that's "bleating" is you... BWWAHHH... OBAMAMMMMA BAWWWWW... HILLARY.

I understand that neither is president. And therefore.. in regards to my protection.. neither of them matter.

Now.. what do I FEAR? Okay. I fear that a foreign power is going to gain influence over the US government. Which is a legitimate fear when you consider Russia's efforts and CONTINUED efforts to undermine our elections and our democracy.

So what does that mean? Well.. Russia wants a weak US. One that's ineffective, it wants to disrupt long term and strong alliances.. (like NATO).. it wants to hurt the US economy. It wants to hurt the US credibility. It wants to hurt our democracy.

Hmmm.. lets see.. now what would I do if I were putin and could influence whats going on in the US? Wait.. how about have the us insult its long term allies so to distrust the NATO alliance that was started to stop soviet (Russian) aggression?
How about disrupt its economy by starting trade wars?
How about sowing distrust with other countries by going back on signed treaties. Telling the world that you cannot trust the US because it won't abide by its own agreements.
Get internal division within the country by promoting ethnic hatred and division.
Sow distrust of the media.. so anything that smacks of the actual truth.. is called "fake news".

Anything sound familiar? That's a good start in how to take down a foreign country from within.

Then the next phase would be to get more control of the government by putting in more puppets. then start by curtailing personal rights of the people. Making them less able to resist government intrusion. Start with people having to carry ID cards and to have to supply them to prove their citizenship. (you use the ethnic hatred and phobia as the impetus).
Start with firearms restrictions to disarm the populace, (of course you have to do it to "protect the people against... insert the ethnic group of choice)..
Curtail free speech. Anyone that speaks out against the government is being "disloyal".. and a "communist".. (in the name of patriotism of course).

And the best thing is.. the AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL HAVE LARGELY DONE IT TO THEMSELVES.

Cripes.. while they are taking our firearms, and trotting people that disagree with government out to Gitmo.. folks like yourself will by braying "obamaaaaa"..

(oh by the way.. I did not approve of Obama not being harder on Russia. So where you get this "if you look back". But of course.. you don't want to look forward. Because no matter what Russia is doing now.. it doesn't matter.. because Hee Haww... Obamahhhh).
Click to expand...
Yes...I know your point. You are depserate to avoid the FACTS regarding who actually LET all this that you are SOOOOOOOOOOOO scared of happening.

Finally...OK....

So...you think a foreign government is going to influence our government...HOW? By passing laws for us? YoU DO know thats how change actually occurs...right? Congress passes laws. So you think RUSSIA is going to force our government to pass laws???

So...you think correcting a trade imbalance where other countries impose restrictions on us and not the other way around...you think that is Trump doing Russias bidding.
Oh...and you mentioned 'treaties'...please...DO TELL which 'treaties' the president has gone back on. Money says you cant...because money says you actually thought that OBAMA signing an agreement that he has no power over signing is a treaty...right? I know...I know...You HATE talking about Obama...but why didnt OBAMA submit the PCA for ratification...you know...like a ****ing TREATY is supposed to be signed? Why didnt OBAMA submit the Iran agreement for senate ratification? You know...like a treaty is SUPPOSED to be signed.

You know why....right? Because they were both **** legislation that no one would have passed.

Your TDS has you spewing a bunch of ridiculous ****...and I dont doubt it has you cowering in fear. But your fear is embarrassing and unfounded.

EDIT: Added....the fact that you attribute restrictions in our freedoms to RUSSIA while ignoring it is the left in this country ACTIVELY seeking to impose those restrictions...well...it speaks volumes of you.
 
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TurtleDude said:
yeah and its liberals on this site who have made the following claims

1) Trump supports need to be implanted with "chips" so their whereabouts be tracked

2) the Fifth amendment shouldn't apply to Trump supporters and NRA members

for years left-wingers have tried to suppress the first amendment-such as shouting down conservative speakers on college campuses to gun banners trying to prevent the NRA from advocating people be armed for self defense. Most conservatives support individual rights rather than collectivism.
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I'm fairly sure you're not talking about me, but it still feels like a punch in the nose.

That's ok, I'll teach you discipline one day, brother... ;)
 
OlNate said:
I'm fairly sure you're not talking about me, but it still feels like a punch in the nose.

That's ok, I'll teach you discipline one day, brother... ;)
Click to expand...

perhaps teach your leftwing allies who only make the rest of you all look bad with what is basically fascist nonsense
 
TurtleDude said:
perhaps teach your leftwing allies who only make the rest of you all look bad with what is basically fascist nonsense
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Do you really want a world where we are each responsible for our "side's" fringes, or would it be a better world if we just stopped letting them trigger us, and keep the discussion amongst the adults? (Ya, I get how hard that can be...hehe)

I've seen the argument go both ways, depending on the issue.
 
TurtleDude said:
the stuff you are complaining about took place under OBAMA

Trump isn't perfect on gun issues -you want to argue Hillary would have been better?

You think Gorsuch and Kavanagh are worse on gun rights than the people Hillary wanted to appoint?
Click to expand...

Yep.. and I didn't think Obama should have backed off Russia. Of course the irony is.. that if HE HAD gone at Russia... lets be honest... you and a whole host of others would have been screaming that Russia hacking us was FAKE..and that it was an effort to swing the election to Hillary.

But would you really be honest and admit that that is exactly what you would have thought? I don't know. You are pretty smart Turtledude.. but your libertarian distrust of government seems to waffle a bit depending on whether its and R or a D in power.

I don't argue that Hillary would be perfect on gun issues. but here is the real thing here. IF Hillary was elected.. and HAD gone after guns. We,, would have been able to go after her like no ones business. And she would have paid a political price.. and so would the democrats (just like Gore did).

But what happens if Trump goes after guns? You'll be apologizing for Trump and saying "Hillary would have been worse"...

Trump said it.. "I don't fear the NRA". And why should he? He can do no wrong.. because Hillary and Obama are the bad guys. Trump is in the best position to go after guns. IF and when its politically expedient for him to throw a bone to the democrats.. especially if the democrats gain control of Congress. Guns will probably be first on the table. they are an easy bone for him to throw.. . And what will you say? "but but but.. Hillary will have been worse".
 
TurtleDude said:
so tell me-who do you want picking the next justice for supreme court-Hillary or Trump?
Click to expand...

Actually.. neither.. which is why I voted third candidate.

The supreme court has been a bust for a while. the hobby lobby decision was terrible,.. citizens united? Worse.
Raisch V gonzalez ... abysmal.

We have had a partisan court that doesn't understand the constitution and freedom for some time. And I don't think either Hillary and ESPECIALLY Trump.. can pick a supreme court justice.

In fact.. when you consider trump and his actions so far.. If you MADE me pick who I thought would be better at picking.. I would probably choose Hillary. Heck.. at least I am pretty sure she has READ the constitution. Trump? Probably not.
 
VanceMack said:
Yes...I know your point. You are depserate to avoid the FACTS regarding who actually LET all this that you are SOOOOOOOOOOOO scared of happening.

.
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Yawn... seriously.. you are just making stuff up. I didn;t avoid any facts. Yep.. Russian hacking took place on Obama's watch. He said he decided to stand down a bit because he was afraid that it would be seen as trying to influence the election toward Hillary.

Yep.. its a fact.

however.. you seem to forget that 1. OBAMA AND HILLARY ARE NOT PRESIDENT.

2. While you recognize that this happened under Obama's watch.... TRUMP DOESN"T THINK IT HAPPENED AT ALL!!!!!..

So...you think a foreign government is going to influence our government...HOW? By passing laws for us? YoU DO know thats how change actually occurs...right? Congress passes laws. So you think RUSSIA is going to force our government to pass laws???
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hmmm... you really are working hard to be obtuse on this. lets see.. so Russia helps get US presidents and US congressman elected. Which means at the very least.. they have influenced who makes those laws. And if the Russians help get these folks elected.. and then can hold their help over their heads.. then Russia has even more influence. And can actually dictate to those Congressmen and Presidents... what bills to introduce and how to vote, and what laws to sign... not to mention actions by the president.

But okay..

YOU tell me... you just made a huge deal about OBama and how he screwed up and let the Russians Hack us. So you tell me... WHY DID THE RUSSIANS DO THAT? Do you realize how you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand.. You go bonkers over OBama allowing the Russians to hack us and influence our elections.

then in the next breath... you are now questioning why the Russians would even want to do such a thing.

So...you think correcting a trade imbalance where other countries impose restrictions on us and not the other way around...you think that is Trump doing Russias bidding.
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Its pretty good logic. WHO benefits? In a lot of cases of these trade wars... the industries that Trump is supposedly protecting... ARE AGAINST his actions... because it would make things worse for them. In fact.. the auto industry is against his proposed tariffs on cars and car parts.

Auto makers, parts suppliers and dealers are joining forces to push back against the Trump administration’s proposal to apply tariffs of up to 25% on vehicles and components imported into the U.S., contending the administration’s trade policy will backfire and lead to higher prices and lost jobs.

President Donald Trump has justified the proposed tariffs on national-security grounds
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Hmmm... so lets see.. Trump know more about Russian spying than our Intelligence agencies. He knows more about the military than the generals.. and now he knows more about the auto industry.. than.. the auto industry.

Who benefits from a trade war and disruption of our economy? Russia.

You know why....right? Because they were both **** legislation that no one would have passed
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Actually the IRAn deal makes sense. .. by the way.. I have read it.. have you?

Your TDS has you spewing a bunch of ridiculous ****...and I dont doubt it has you cowering in fear. But your fear is embarrassing and unfounded.
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Says the man that's focused on Obama and Hillary and not on what the CURRENT GOVERNMENT is doing.

the fact that you attribute restrictions in our freedoms to RUSSIA while ignoring it is the left in this country ACTIVELY seeking to impose those restrictions...well...it speaks volumes of you.
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The irony here. Trump is the one that stated that he agreed with taken guns away without due process. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that.

As far as our freedoms. Hmmm. So who created a separate prison system outside the us specifically to get around the constitution? Was that the left?

How about the freedoms lost in the Patriot act.. the surveillance of the US population... No fly lists without due process? Just the left?

Sorry.. the one that's "spewing".. seems to be you.
 
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