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Root cause [W:255]

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I keep hearing we don't need gun laws but we need to go after the root cause. What current state or country has figured out this root cause and has lax gun laws and low gun deaths? Does this root cause apply to illegal immigration....if so then we do not need a wall....right. Can you have lax gun laws on a large scale and low gun deaths? Can anyone show me where this is possible?
 
Re: Root cause

We do not have seem to have overly lax laws for killing folks or attempting to do so - penalties for murder can be up to LWOP or, far too occasionally, death. If you wish to make the penalties for murder and/or attempted murder more harsh then, by all means, let's do that ASAP.

What we have (in overabundance?) are fools that see the tool (ab)used by a criminal as being the 'root cause' of the crime - unless, of course, that tool is a rope, knife, club, screwdriver, hammer, knife, axe or poison. Only in "gun crime" cases does such insanity seem to prevail and 'laser focus' on the tool (ab)used rather than the person committing criminal act as being the 'root cause' of that crime. I have yet to hear you state that any other (non-gun) tool (ab)used by criminals needs more control (ever more government intrusion on its purchase, storage or user training) to address the 'root cause'.
 
Re: Root cause

We do not have seem to have overly lax laws for killing folks or attempting to do so - penalties for murder can be up to LWOP or, far too occasionally, death. If you wish to make the penalties for murder and/or attempted murder more harsh then, by all means, let's do that ASAP.

What we have (in overabundance?) are fools that see the tool (ab)used by a criminal as being the 'root cause' of the crime - unless, of course, that tool is a rope, knife, club, screwdriver, hammer, knife, axe or poison. Only in "gun crime" cases does such insanity seem to prevail and 'laser focus' on the tool (ab)used rather than the person committing criminal act as being the 'root cause' of that crime. I have yet to hear you state that any other (non-gun) tool (ab)used by criminals needs more control (ever more government intrusion on its purchase, storage or user training) to address the 'root cause'.

I hear no solutions. Show me where your plan works. Gun control works
 
Re: Root cause

  1. I think it naive to think there is any single root cause.
  2. I think it turpitudinous for gun rights advocates to assert that the root cause(s) should be what laws address and yet not identify what be that root cause(s), not propose or fund research to identify the root causes(s) and/or propose measures to attenuate the manifestation of whatever be the root cause(s).
 
Re: Root cause

  1. I think it naive to think there is any single root cause.
  2. I think it turpitudinous for gun rights advocates to assert that the root cause(s) should be what laws address and yet not identify what be that root cause(s), not propose or fund research to identify the root causes(s) and/or propose measures to attenuate the manifestation of whatever be the root cause(s).

Research all you want. Just show me a current state or country with low gun deaths and lax gun laws
 
Re: Root cause

And gun suicides. Gun control can reduce all those

Are you interested only in reducing murder, assault, or suicide with a gun? Or are you interested in reducing murder, assault, and suicide regardless of the tool used?
 
Re: Root cause

I hear no solutions. Show me where your plan works. Gun control works

You offer no solutions (that do not require repealing or ignoring the 2A).

What 'gun control' solution would impact someone (already defined as a prohibited person) that now illegally has a gun more than myself that now completely legally has a gun?

I'll wait, as you continue to dodge answering that direct question.
 
Re: Root cause

I keep hearing we don't need gun laws but we need to go after the root cause. What current state or country has figured out this root cause and has lax gun laws and low gun deaths? Does this root cause apply to illegal immigration....if so then we do not need a wall....right. Can you have lax gun laws on a large scale and low gun deaths? Can anyone show me where this is possible?

It really doesn't matter what other countries do, as few have the same sorts of guarantees in their founding documents. Certainly, we can learn from some other nations, but the lessons aren't likely to lead where you seem to want to go.

I believe we agree on the problem (too many gun deaths,) but your apparent solution simply isn't plausible. We haven't see anything like the massive swell of support it would take to alter the 2nd amendment. Any policy change likely to satisfy you is going to require that, or get overturned nearly immediately, especially as the SCOTUS drifts to the right.

Hell, there isn't nearly enough support for my own fix, which would be periodic mental health screenings though schools to try to identify troubled kids early, flag them as not being allowed to purchase firearms, and leave the 2nd alone. The decision would be appeal-able, though it would require successfully clearing a mental health screening.

Double hell, there's not even enough support to provide funding to physically secure schools!

Either of those are far more plausible than changing 2A. Even if I thought it had a chance of passing, I'd have to consider any 2A edits extremely carefully. It serves a purpose, and there are those that will abuse any power that comes to them.
 
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Re: Root cause

For a gun to be the root cause of a crime, it would have to be proven that a gun, when seen, or discussed, or held, can cause a person to commit a crime using that gun as the tool to perform that crime.

The first thing we should do in this thread is to understand the term “root cause” and to understand it’s impact on actions we must understand “root cause analysis.”

What is Root Cause Analysis (RCA)? | ASQ
 
Re: Root cause

And gun suicides. Gun control can reduce all those

Japan has a higher suicide rate than the US and their gun control laws have it to where very few people own a gun. If you think that guns = suicide then you have no understanding what so ever about why suicide happens.
 
Re: Root cause

You offer no solutions (that do not require repealing or ignoring the 2A).

What 'gun control' solution would impact someone (already defined as a prohibited person) that now illegally has a gun more than myself that now completely legally has a gun?

I'll wait, as you continue to dodge answering that direct question.

That is factually incorrect. Most of the gun control I want already exists in parts of the US. Also you do not speak for SCOTUS. And I am happy to stack up my plan to reduce gun deaths next to your
 
Re: Root cause

Japan has a higher suicide rate than the US and their gun control laws have it to where very few people own a gun. If you think that guns = suicide then you have no understanding what so ever about why suicide happens.

You get so much wrong. I have treated patients with suicidal ideations for over 25 years. You love to characterize my positions when you know almost nothing about them except your own prejudices
 
Re: Root cause

For a gun to be the root cause of a crime, it would have to be proven that a gun, when seen, or discussed, or held, can cause a person to commit a crime using that gun as the tool to perform that crime.

The first thing we should do in this thread is to understand the term “root cause” and to understand it’s impact on actions we must understand “root cause analysis.”

What is Root Cause Analysis (RCA)? | ASQ

I would love to end discussions on root cause. It is pointless. We know what works. Gun control
 
Re: Root cause

Are you interested only in reducing murder, assault, or suicide with a gun? Or are you interested in reducing murder, assault, and suicide regardless of the tool used?

Sure. This is a gun control forum though so I discuss gun control here
 
Re: Root cause

You get so much wrong. I have treated patients with suicidal ideations for over 25 years. You love to characterize my positions when you know almost nothing about them except your own prejudices

If you have treated patients with suicidal ideations for over 25 years then how is it that you think guns = suicide?

I'll also note that you didn't say one single thing about Japan and their suicide rate which is higher than the US's...and far less gun ownership.
 
Re: Root cause

That is factually incorrect. Most of the gun control I want already exists in parts of the US. Also you do not speak for SCOTUS. And I am happy to stack up my plan to reduce gun deaths next to your

As I predicted, you simply will not answer a direct question. HAND
 
Re: Root cause

It really doesn't matter what other countries do, as few have the same sorts of guarantees in their founding documents. Certainly, we can learn from some other nations, but the lessons aren't likely to lead where you seem to want to go.

I believe we agree on the problem (too many gun deaths,) but your apparent solution simply isn't plausible. We haven't see anything like the massive swell of support it would take to alter the 2nd amendment. Any policy change likely to satisfy you is going to require that, or get overturned nearly immediately, especially as the SCOTUS drifts to the right.

Hell, there isn't nearly enough support for my own fix, which would be periodic mental health screenings though schools to try to identify troubled kids early, flag them as not being allowed to purchase firearms, and leave the 2nd alone. The decision would be appeal-able, though it would require successfully clearing a mental health screening.

Double hell, there's not even enough support to provide funding to physically secure schools!

Either of those are far more plausible than changing 2A. Even if I thought it had a chance of passing, I'd have to consider any 2A edits extremely carefully. It serves a purpose, and there are those that will abuse any power that comes to them.

No need to alter the second amendment. Most of what I want is completely constitutional. And besides I will let scotus decide
 
Re: Root cause

If you have treated patients with suicidal ideations for over 25 years then how is it that you think guns = suicide?

I'll also note that you didn't say one single thing about Japan and their suicide rate which is higher than the US's...and far less gun ownership.

Again show me exactly where I said guns = suicide. You are constantly misrepresenting my position
 
Re: Root cause

No need to alter the second amendment. Most of what I want is completely constitutional. And besides I will let scotus decide

Ok, well, I'd need the details to see if I agreed with your changes, but I'd wager there are plenty of differing views on the constitutionality.

Also, you don't address the lack of support. You can do anything you want with enough of that.

Convinced ain't convincing.
 
Re: Root cause

Nor will you. Man up if you want to be part of the debate

There was no question posed in your post - you simply spewed your normal BS to avoid giving any direct answer. Perhaps repeating "it's just a form" a few hundred more times will make you feel like a debate winner.
 
Re: Root cause

Ok, well, I'd need the details to see if I agreed with your changes, but I'd wager there are plenty of differing views on the constitutionality.

Also, you don't address the lack of support. You can do anything you want with enough of that.

Convinced ain't convincing.

I am happy to stack my plan up against yours with details. But I am not just a punching bag
 
Re: Root cause

You offer no solutions (that do not require repealing or ignoring the 2A).

What 'gun control' solution would impact someone (already defined as a prohibited person) that now illegally has a gun more than myself that now completely legally has a gun?

I'll wait, as you continue to dodge answering that direct question.

I can't understand the English in this question. I am not trying to be rude....I just don't understand it
 
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